Who are the Muslim Moderates (Neo-Mods) ?

[Salafi_Online]

Xoogsade you write;

 

Bro NGONGE, That is funny saxib Some of the things are obvious though and need no more clarification. I have no business supporting a Saudi ruler. Let those who reside there deal with that problem. I think these fatwas bro Salafi-Oline is quoting were given in the best interest of the Saudi people, for the sake of peace and to avoid anarchy and mayhem that can result from people picking up arms against strongly established and ruthless rulers who treat the country as a piece of land they own.

Its interesting how you construe the Mayshaykh Fatwah as a means of supporting their rulers for the sake of their own people only! What if I said they give the fatwah because its the commandant from Allah and his messenger!NOw My question to you my dead brother is, doesn’t the following HAdith apply to every single muslim or is it just the Saudis and their scholars? or do we take from islam what agrees with our wishes and leave out that which is not in accordance with it?!?

 

The Prophet said: ‘‘The person must obey in whatever he loves, and in whatever he hates, in ease and in hardship, in willingness and un-willingness; except if he is commanded to disobey Allaah. So if he is commanded to disobey Allaah, then he should not listen, not should he obey.’’ Related by al-Bukhaaree (4/203)

 

You write

On the other hand, It is unwise for anyone to attack some sheekh because another Sheekh happened to have a difference with him. They usually tell you to compare the knowledge of the two disputing sheekhs and thus you must take sides. My answer would be No-side-taking and I don't care since none of the sheekhs is taking me to heaven. I am facing my deeds on my account not on anyone else's. I need to mind my own business and not slander someone I can not personally attest to their unfaithfulness to God. The approach as you wisely indicated should be neutral and not take sides. It is silly to support one sheekh over the other and slander his opponent for no reason other than your sheekh happens to dislike him. Is that part of islam?

The Scholars are our guide, would you not agree? The messenger of Allah(saw) is the guide of Mankind, when he died, the scholars inherited his knowledge, and became our guide? Thus if you neglected the scholars who will guide you! In addition we worship Allah with knowledge this is a prerequisite, this knowledge can only be found with the scholars, by listening to their tapes, reading their books and what not! So in reality knowledge Of Allah gets you closer to Allah and protects you from being misguided! The fact that someone takes the shahada does not make them guided! An example of this is ( the nation of islam) they are not muslims, but they do take the shahada! And they have their own scholars! Knowledge is your shield therefore this can not happen without a Scholar since we would be in a state of confusion and misguidance!

 

 

Your write

 

It is silly to support one sheekh over the other and slander his opponent for no reason other than your sheekh happens to dislike him. Is that part of islam?

As far as a scholar speaking ill of another person who the people perceive as "scholar" then this is correct provide that they have a legitamate reason "refutation" is from islam! A scholar does not have enmity towards another Muslim unless they are violating the teachings of islam and calling to other then correct aqeeda(creed)! Allah said the people who fear Allah the most are the scholars! If the scholar remain silent who will teach and warn the people about these people’s errors! In addition the scholars do not speak about someone without prove, without analyzing his speech and his books, and then finally sitting with the individual in person(provided that the person is alive) advising him of his errors! After all these necessary steps, A scholar criticizes and warns about the individual, this being the last resort!

 

IF you were to take from ever every Dick, john and Harry who spoke about Islam, Xoogsade you would literately be in a state of confusion! Because everyone beliefs something different when it comes to islam, and many if not the mijority say About Allah his messenger and the religion of islam that which was never utter by Allah or his messenger or the companions! A proof is the hadith about the 72 sects of islam, they all differ on Belief(creed)! Imagine Xoogsade; u took from every scholar and peron among the 73 sects, you would have multiple creeds(belief) im sure you wouldn’t for the simple reason that you know or are aware that these people are heading to the fire due to their beliefs and not sins, and you would not like to end up like them! So refuting and criticizing the errors of others after they have been advised(imaging they refuse the advice that is) is a must and one of the greatest obligation! let me give you an example!

 

Shaikh ul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah (Rahimahullaah) said, "It is obligatory to punish

everyone who ascribes himself to them – the people of innovation – or who defends

them, or who praises them, or who reveres their books, or who detests that they should

be talked about, or who begins to make excuses for them by saying he does not understand what these words mean or by saying that this person also authored another book and what is similar to these types of excuses, which are not made except by an ignoramus or a hypocrite. Rather, it is obligatory to punish everyone who knows of

their condition and did not assist in repelling their evil, for repelling their evil is one of

the greatest of obligations." [Majmoo’ ul-Fataawaa (2/132]

 

You stated

 

Why should one get involved in Saudi Politics in the first place if they were Somalis? No One wants to put his house on fire, and to some sheekhs, welcoming opposition just means that. Add to the equation the go-betweeners who take a rumour to a sheekh and tell him that such and shuch were being said about you or about the rulers. You can imagine some sick people have worked hard to create animosity between Sheekhs, the biggest of the culprits being the Saudi Rulers themselves. They thrive on the devision of the Muslim Scholars. And some brothers don't even realize what message they are carrying

Is politics separate from islam? I do not think so! Politics is part of islam, and no one was discussing Saudi politics(if there is such a thing), we were discussion islam! Second a Shaykh is not to stup*d to take the words of a person without evidence(if he is following the manhaj of the salaf that is), “ he said she said†speech is really not something the scholars indulge in! in addition if the Saudi rulers are the biggest culprit im sure you read this somewhere, so do u mind pasting this so we can all have a read! But im sure you merely threw in here to spice up your post!

 

 

PS: Anyone thought Abdullahi Yusuf, Our New president can utilize some of the fatwas if he was smart? Honestly, Rulers nowadays don't even need to fight insurgents, just utilize islam to their own end and line-up support by threatening others with unfaithfulness. It can't get any simpler than that. I recall Somaliland government being legitimate and very islamic according to our Salafi Brother. Now we have something to talk about so let us continue the debate lol.

I do not remember saying the Gov of Somaliland was very Islamic! Im sure you ment well when you wrote that! If memory serves me right, I said I can not comment on wheter they are Islamic or not, because I do not have knowledge of what the Shariyah entails, its conditions and what not..ect!

 

Abdullah Yusef is now a ruler, and all the conditions that apply to the saudis also apply to him, until he shows clear kufr(disbelieve)! obeying and hearing him is obligatory since its foundation of islam! Backbitting Abdullah Yusef and speaking ill of him him not being present is haram, its similar to eating his dead flesh! if you have nothing good to say about the man, i suggest everyone to remain silent about is faults, unless he is an innovator or a kafir! and neither of these titles apply to him as far as i know!

[sahal]

Abdullah Yusef is now a ruler, and all the conditions that apply to the saudis also apply to him, until he shows clear kufr(disbelieve)! obeying and hearing him is obligatory since its foundation of islam! Backbitting Abdullah Yusef and speaking ill of him him not being present is haram, its similar to eating his dead flesh! if you have nothing good to say about the man, i suggest everyone to remain silent about is faults, unless he is an innovator or a kafir! and neither of these titles apply to him as far as i know!

first of all i'm happy that my uncle came the same position as FAHAD, :cool: Just joking !

 

But why don't you treat these noble Uluma and Mujahidin at least same treatment as Fahad and Abdullah Yusuf?

 

Osama actions are not synonyms with the teachings of the Quran and sunnah nor does it correspond with the path of the Salaf. You can orate as much as you want on how Osama is muslim , but this does not quench the fact that his activities are evil, corrupt and utter misguidance. We hate him for what he preaches and what he does and what he calls to! He is misguided and misguides others;

however, this does not diminish the misguidance of Osama! he is more harmful to me then Bush ! while bush can kill me and hurt me physically, Osama can corrupt my heart and distort my Aqeeda!

There is not difference between Bin Laden and the khawarij during the time of Ali Bin Talib(RA)?

Salman A-awda, Safar Al-xawali,Saruuri's, Are not Salafies....Salma A-awda and safar al-xawali vilify The Kibar Ulaama of our time and past.

Sakina i also refuse to follow Qardawi and his hanchmans! But i love Bin Baaz May Allah perserve him!

What BRother nur is doing is what we call "Taymee'" to have softness and tolerance for ahlul bi'ah, taking the good and leaving the bad of these groups and parties! The good that is found in their da'wah is found in the Salafi manhaj, everything we need to know about this religion has been explained to the companions, they are the Jamaca, and these groups and parties do not uphold the manhaj of the Jamaca!

 

If it is in the akhlaaq of the Salaf ul Saalih, to point fingers and make tajriix of other groups who we differ in some of the aqeedah issues or Fiqh? like puting down the Tabligh, ikhwan and the Saruuri?

[sahal]

Ngone Sxb. If you're still insisting that the arguement is not simple as i am illustrating, could you please do one favour:

 

Could you please ask Salafi-on-line (on behalf of me since he will not answer my questions) His group's stand on joining the parliaments of the oppresive muslim rulers like Kuwait, Jordan and by the way new Somalia enz.?

 

Hope he will give you an answer since you're impartial on this issue.

[Xoogsade]

Bro Salafi, interesting point on Abdullahi Yusuf. And never mind the rest I wrote(if you already read it). I just don't want to spoil the mood for the hopefuls and sound too pessimistic(I deleted some stuff-questions I wrote).

 

 

Thanks Saxib anyway.

[AYOUB]

^^^lol I like that

 

The Saud family came to power by overthrowing their leaders and then declared un-Isamic to overthrow them, and the new President refused to obey the previous one and now its un-Islamic to disobey him. What better person to ask than a Salafi online!

 

I find it hypocritical for the supporters 'royal families' who all came to power by force - most with the help of non-Muslims - to start preaching how its against the Sunnah to get rid of them by force. Some of them came to power by overthrowing their own fathers and uncles!

[Xoogsade]

Bro AYOUB, Waa iga Qoslisey Qudhaada LOOOL. I am still laughing. It was an interesting stuff I think that I wrote. But after some introspection, I thought it wasn't wise to ask questions like that at this juncture. I grew wary lately and delete a lot of the stuff I write wondering about their appropriateness.

 

 

Ramadaan Karim in Advance.

[AYOUB]

^^Ramadan Kariim to you, SOL masses and all Muslims

[Xoogsade]

Ayoub, did you read them though? Without you commenting on them? Or I am wrong and you were laughing at something else?

[AYOUB]

^^Saxiib I read everything before editing

 

If Salafi gave you the go-ahead, would you declare a JIHAD, I wonder?

[NGONGE]

Salafi, Sahal is asking you some questions, brother.

 

Ramadan Kareem one and all.

[OG_Girl]

Salafi wont answer cause simply they did not teach him how to answer any other topic than defending holly royal family and related topics .

 

Ramadan Kareem to all .

 

Salam

[NGONGE]

Heh. OG,you’re selling us false goods with that signature of yours dee. :eek:

Now you’re even explaining on behalf of others too?

[OG_Girl]

LOL@NGONGE... you know me just like to ennoy aders and eedos

 

Shall I change my signature dear

 

Salam

[NGONGE]

^^^ lol

No. Leave it as it is, you're perfect as you are, dear.

[Xoogsade]

Bro AYOUB, Do you think I am related to Abdullahi Yusuf? is that why you asked if I would wage a war/Jihad on his behalf if I was given permission?

 

I doubt if Salafi-Online considers himself one who can give an edict to others to wage a war. And I wasn't seeking one. I asked the Questions for some other reasons.

 

And to answer your question, I don't give up my life for the sake of a ruler, tribe, or nationalism(except if we went to war with Ethiopia for example, and they were the aggressors, I would surely participate and support the Somalis).

 

Does that answer your Question?