Who are the Muslim Moderates (Neo-Mods) ?

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by Viking:

quote: However, when you’re going to criticise (not question) the scholars of Islam,

you do have to say who you are and what gives you the authority to do so.

NGONGE,

Are you claiming that scholars are untouchables in the sense that a non-scholar cannot critisize their decisions? What support do you have in the Quran and Hadith that a person needs some sort of "authority" in order to critisize fatwas given by scholars? Hell, I've heard that Napoleon had some scholars in Al-Azhar declare him to be the long awaited Mahdi...what level of education do I need to have so that I can disregard and critisize such ********* ?

Saaxib. You can say that you “think†such and such a scholar is wrong in whatever fatwa they made. Nothing at all stops you from doing so. However, if you write it up as an article and want to be taken seriously, at least show signs of being on the same level of knowledge as those you criticise.

 

Let us assume that you are a scientist who devised a new scientific formula that sounds extremely ridicules, would other scientists say that you’re wrong without completely and clearly showing why your formula is wrong? What if you’re right? Remember Galileo and his Earth revolving around the Sun theory!

 

We don’t accept such shabby assertion when it comes to science and yet you sound shocked to find that I also don’t accept it when it comes to my faith too?

 

You seem to confuse the difference between questioning the scholars and critiquing them. I question them all the time, I’m sure you and everyone else does too. But, when it comes to criticism, you’ve got to put in a bit more effort into it and show me (your reader) why do you believe those scholars are deviant, wouldn’t you agree?

 

Let me give you another example of a scholar that might fall into the camp that this article criticises. Dr Yusuf Al Qaradawi came to the UK recently at the invitation of the Mayor of London. Following this article’s logic, this would mean that Dr Yusuf is a deviant scholar who rubs shoulders with the “enemyâ€. The Dr was in the UK to take part in an Islamic conference on the subject of Hijab. He was here to condemn the French government’s decision to ban the Hijab in its schools! This is the opposite of what Sheikh Tantawi said, which I assume, would make Dr Qaradawi a good guy, right? (The British media, by and large, portrayed Dr Qaradawi as a radical Muslim scholar who condoned suicide bombing and wife beating by the way). Is he a radical? Is he a moderate? Is he a deviant? How could we tell if we don’t look at his various fatwas and scrutinise them before making a judgement?

 

As I said in my first ever reply to this thread, he makes some good points as to the state of the Muslim world today. But, rather than wondering why these scholars would issue such “incoherent†fatwas, he resorts to attacking their qualifications and making assumptions about their motives. These are serious accusations and are not to be taken lightly just because his “overall†analysis seems to be “on the ballâ€. Which is why I said it smelled like sour grapes to me.

 

Would still love to know who he is.

[OG_Girl]

Hmm, people fighting for what now?

 

Ok, what ever you r good or bad "Muslim" Western wont be happy with you till you take off your hat for them.. be extremist or weak muslim ... for them you are "Same" .... Shall we all become extremests? Is your choice but remember they always highlight your mistakes and give the way suits to them.. just exacyly what DA trying to

do here

 

DA,he is my brother in Islam . And there is NO prove he have done 9-11 , if I would take some one's words without evidences I would take his :cool:

 

Salam

[Reality Check]

^ OG, I will respond to your posts from now as soon as I know which "OG" is typing back.

 

 

either that or.....

 

 

Lets just leave it at that.

[OG_Girl]

lol@which OG. Is one OG dear..well, I admit my baby sisters some times mess around but I solved that problem Admin will give them each a new nick names

 

Salam

[Reality Check]

Originally posted by OG_Girl:

Is your choice but remember they always highlight your mistakes and give the way suits to them.. just exacyly what DA trying to

do here

If I'm "still" talking to the right OG, can you explain this comment?

[OG_Girl]

Oooh, Was just simple comments cause you did not quote the whole what I said ..the lines you quoted was reply for Rahima and what I posted earleir so you just quote lines and it is alone can be understood wrong or right just the way reciever wants to translate.

 

you easily could ask me explaination the first lines you quoted.Cause the way I meant nothing wrong with it.

 

What I meant my first comments was " since there is no evidences I will give him benifit of doubt" even if i disagree with him in another issues, is that wrong???

 

Salam

[Reality Check]

^Because you used my screen name.

 

and I would really like to know "what I was trying to do"...

 

do you have an answer for this.

[OG_Girl]

Yeah, when I used your screen name ?...lol

 

can you answer that ?

 

Salam

[NGONGE]

"Never explain--your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway".

 

 

Ever since she chose this signature she did nothing but explain. Heh.

 

I think it’s time for the silent treatment now.

 

(Carry on..).

[OG_Girl]

lol@NGONGE...I only explain for people I really like and respect them... So is ok to explain to you my old man or shall I call you 3amo Raami

 

Salam

[Reality Check]

^this must be the little sister talkign then.

 

 

OG, please tell whom ever is writing for you to stop insinuating stuff about me, particularly the "just exacyly what DA trying to

do here" comment that you can't seem to account for, 'k?

[OG_Girl]

Do I need farther explaination ?

 

asokot mn dahab

 

Salam

[Salafi_Online]

At the risk of derailing the topic further and kindling another argument between the two of us Inshallah I shall conclude with this!(Sol is back online i see)

 

 

“The point that apparanetly Usama is guilty of all that he is accused of. If I committed a crime today, got busted and then attributed it to you, is it correct then for Baashi to assume that you are automatically guilty? People make claims and so far I have not seen any clear proofs that Usama is guilty of the crimes he is accused of. I give my fellow brother (with all his flaws, God only knows that our flaws are far worse) the benefit of the doubt. He has not admitted to them and there is no proof of it than heresay.â€

Bin Baaz said the following in 1999 just before his death( May Allah grant me his company)

 

“…it is obligatory to destroy an annihilate these publications and that what has emanated from al Faqeeh, and from Masaree, or from other then the two of them from the callers of Faleshood, and from the callers of evil and falsehood and not be lenient towards them(…) it is not permissible for anyone to co-operate with them in this evil. And its obligatory upon them to be sincere and to come back to guidance. to leave alone and abandon this falsehood, So my sincere advice to al Masa’re, Alfaqee and bin Laden and all those who traverse upon their way is to leave alone this disastrous path and to fear Allah and beware of his revenge and his anger and to return to guidance…(to the end of the fatwah)

Fatwah can be found in the 9th volume of Majmoo’ul Fatwa Wa Maqaalaataatul-Mutanawai’ah also www.ibnbaz.org)

 

 

It’s clear to the mind with distinct mental insight, the noble Shaykh pigeonholes Bin Laden and his companions as misguided and upon Evil, to such extend that their actions may Earn Allah’s revenge and Anger! Bin Baaz is not one who is known to speak on impulse. Granted anyone can claim Bin Baaz Erred, But the burden of prove is upon them. a muslim’s Creed(Aqeeda) and faith is at stake, indeed The noble Shaykh would not and has not defame and oppress a muslim who did not earn denigration! And I say this with the utmost conviction!

 

 

Then we have the noble Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Hadi al-Madkhali, a professor at the Islamic University of Madina who record the disciples of Bin laden were polished into impetuous Takfir(Those who call others muslims Disbelievers) by their “SHAYKH†Osama Bin Laden AlKharijee,

 

“The majority of our youth that returned from the jihad in Afghanistan to our country were affected, either by the ideology of the Ikhwan (the group al-Ikhwan al-Muslimun) in general, or by the revolutionary, takfiri ideology. So they left us believing that we were Muslims, and they returned to us believing that we were disbelievers. So with that, they saw us as being disbelievers, the rulers, and the scholars, not to mention the common folk. They labeled the (Saudi) state apostate, and they rendered the major scholars apostate. They admitted this with their own mouths. They declared the scholars to be disbelievers, and mentioned specifically the two Shaykhs, Shaykh Abdul-Aziz Bin Baz and Shaykh Muhammad Bin al-Uthaymin, may Allah preserve them. They mentioned their connection with al-Masari and Osama Bin Laden. Did they get this from the salafi scholars? No! Rather they got it from the people of takfir."

Reference(Abul-Hasan Maalik, In Defense of Islam, (T.R.O.I.D. Publications 2002, p. 97.) student of Muqbil

 

 

a recent dialogue between Dr Saleh Saleh and I

 

Salafi_Online: akhee as salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa baarakatu, quick question inshallah, is it true that Osama bin Laden is a takfiri?

fairness-1: wa'alaykum as-salaam wa Rahmatu llaah wa Barakaatuh

fairness-1: from what is apparent in his several communications and addresses is that he declares the rulers Kuffaar. etc..

Salafi_Online: yea shaykh i have also heard that his takfir is not restricted to the Rulers but also those scholars in the kingdom ,

Salafi_Online: is there any truth to these claims?

fairness-1: I dont have a proof for him declaring them Kaafir's ..but his methodolgy ..like the rest of the politically driven groups is that they dont give these scholars the proper estimate they deserve unless they agree with them.

Salafi_Online: khair inshallah wa baarakallahu feek

fairness-1: wafeeka Baarak

fairness-1: was-salam

Salafi_Online: walaykum salam wa rahmatullahi wa baarakatu

 

Then From the words of Bin Laden;

 

In an interview which appeared in the takfiri/jihaadee magazine Nida'ul Islam, Bin Laden performs unrestricted takfir (declares them to have left the fold of Islam) upon the present day Muslim governments:

 

"At the same time that some of the leaders are engaging in the major acts of disbelief, which takes them out of the fold of Islam in broad daylight and in front of all the people, you would find a fatwa (verdict) from their religious organisation. In particular, the role of the religious organisation (i.e. the Salafi scholars) in the country of the two sacred mosques (i.e. Saudi Arabia) is of the most ominous of roles, this is overlooking whether it fulfilled this role intentionally or unintentionally, the harm which eventuated from their efforts is no different from the role of the most ardent enemies of the nation."

Continuing in his reference to the presence of the organization of Salafi scholars in Saudi Arabia, Bin Laden terms the Standing Committee for Issuing Religious Verdicts "an idol to be worshipped aside from God."Nida'ul Islam, November, 1996, 15th issue.

 

“the scholars on Usama, but I am also well and aware they have not declared him a kafir and therefore is a Muslim, for me in this war which seemingly is between Usama vs. the west, I know where my loyalties lie-this was my point and on that I agreed with the author. “

So what if he’s a Muslim?is his takfir justified? Is he sheltered from misguidance? Need I remind you the hadith about the 72 sects in the fire. IM sure you know why they are all in the fire! There is not difference between Bin Laden and the khawarij during the time of Ali Bin Talib(RA)?

 

Ibn Haanee an-Neesaabooree (Rahimahullaah) said, “I witnessed Aboo ‘Abdullah,

meaning Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, on his way to the mosque and a man from the skeptics(innovators) gave him salaam. He did not return salaam to him and the man gave him salaam again. Imaam Ahrnad pushed him away and did not return salaam to him.[/b]â€[Masaa’il Imaam Ahmad of Ibn Haanee an-Neesaabooree, 2/153]

 

 

As for the “gulf-war ploy†brother I was only highlighting one small point (don't over analyse the whole thing), the scholars can make a mistake, it is for this reason that Rasuallah stated that if they are correct they receive two rewards and if they err they receive one. It’s almost like you think the scholars are infallible, do you even acknowledge that they can be wrong? As a salafi, I’m sure you acknowledge that Abu Hanifa made mistakes with respect to some fiqh issues (which we attribute to many reasons), so why not the scholars of our lifetime?

the scholars can make mistakes and they have, and no one is infallible(we both agree), however our differences lies somewhere else, for insistence how does one know when a scholar has erred?, is it because their fatwah contradicts an Ayat or a hadith? Is there a systematically mode of spotting their mistakes? Of course not, as far as the unlearned muslim is concerned! Shaykh Albani said,†we advise our growing youths today, who are on the mathhab of the Qur’aan and the Sunnah, to unite and contemplate matters carefully, and not to declare rulings based on some of the apparent meanings of the evidences. This is because it is not suitable for a Muslim to stop at every seemingly obvious ruling. Otherwise, we would end up living in a confused state of knowledge which has no ending to it.†(Fatwaas of Shaykh al-Albaanee

Translated by Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips)

 

And all the scholars can not All agree on an issue that is wrong, not sanctioned by Kitab and Sunnah by way of the Salaf, its impossible, The messenger of Allah(sallahu alayhi wa salam)(May Allah grant me his company) said, (paraphrasing)“my ummah will not agree on an error†in this hadith the “Ummah†is referring to the scholars of the Muslims, since they are our guide!

 

let us use your example; Abu Hanifah made many errors in fiq, , yet his students or those scholars near him did not pin point his errors while he was still alive in any of these issues, the reason being, they were just not qualified , however when his students after the death of the noble Shaykh(May Allah have mercy on him) when to study under imam Malik(ra) they withdrew 1/3 of Abu Hanifa’s fatwas! This was due to the fact that Imam Malik® was a great Scholar who had eminent knowledge, someone with his calibre was able to discern the errors of imam Abu Hanifa through decisive proves, not to mention meticulously elucidating where the Noble Shaykh went wrong ! however what about the muslims who have never studied the deen, who do not know classic Arabic, The tafsir of the Quran and the science of hadith! That fact that they read few ayah and hadith here and there does not give them the license to contend and criticize the scholars and pin point their errors! Who is a lay muslim to say the scholar is wrong, when he do not have 1/1000000000000 of the scholars knowledge nor does he have a glimpse of the Usool, the Furooc and Uloom of islam!

 

 

Please brother, don’t try and get us into a debate concerning the validity of scholars, I am not questioning that whatsoever, so need to put on the white in shinning armour act . As stated I love them all, I respect them all and most importantly never would I say they stated anything out of malice for Islam or Muslims, rather I justify some points that they have erred on because of their love for peace and to avoid disaster to the followers of the religion of Allah.

This comes back to the points Ngonge is making(as far as I understand him at least), Who are we to criticize and discern their errors? who has preceded you in this, where is your evidence?!? Granted Bin Baaz and the other scholars were wrong for asking the kufar(this is my position), but I did not come to this position on my own, the Noble MuHadith Shaykh Albani and others like Hasan Halabi preceded me. In contrast many salafi brothers and scholars said ALbani was wrong, rather bin baaz and Uthaymin and the rest of Mashaykh were correct in their stands(because they were at war with a kafir), so this has become an issue of Ikhtilaf(differences of opinion), seems to me though your convinced that bin baaz was absolutely wrong, this is to say the least astonishing!

 

Bin baaz and Uthaymin are great scholars in Saudiya and they support and aids their rulers in that which is correct, they are known for their Zhuud and Taqwa, they would only support the Government on what Allah and his messenger sanctioned, Hearing and Obey the rulers is a Wajib as long as there is no disobedience to Allah! Bin Baaz would not have allowed the kufar in the land of Tawheed if he knew it was absolutely Haram and if its not in the Muslims’ greater interest, the fact that he was not alone in his position says a lot, and Yes Others scholars disagreed with him, but this does not mean, those who disagree with him had a clear cut prove from the text, to such degree that Bin Baaz was deliberately committing Open Dhulm(wrongdoing)! The issue of The Gulf was a matter of ijtihad, So you and I take position of Albani, my friends and relative take the position of Bin Baaz and Uthaymin’s!

 

 

You stance on ibn Baz? I disagreed where? For me to say that any scholar has made a mistake on any issue does not necessarily translate to loss of respect or the questioning of his credentials. You can still say that you disagree with someone and still hold them in high regard and love them for the sake of Allah. Learn to differentiate that akhi-it comes in very hand in the mannerisms of disagreement.

NO Sister, The Noble Dr Saleh As-saleh agrees with my stands On Osama; that he Is a an Takfiri kharajee , who calls other Muslims disbelievers! This is why I mentioned the nobles doctor's name.

 

Osama actions are not synonyms with the teachings of the Quran and sunnah nor does it correspond with the path of the Salaf. You can orate as much as you want on how Osama is muslim , but this does not quench the fact that his activities are evil, corrupt and utter misguidance. We hate him for what he preaches and what he does and what he calls to! He is misguided and misguides others; this is the position of Bin Baaz, and the rest of the Kibar, thus far I have not come across any scholar who differs with him in this issue (to this day)

 

 

As for SPUBS, they seem to be a tad confused on that concept. I was also once upon a time an avid reader, until I began to realize that they made me have ill feelings towards my fellow brother based on simple matters. As far as I know, they are located in the west; we are not in a land of scholars where we can concentrate on refutations. Here akhi, people hardly know the kalima, so of what benefit is it to label this person and that person a qutubi or khawaarij (do you know that bad nicknames are xaraam? saying that hebal hebal al-khaariji). It’s one thing to advice your brother on certain mistakes that they make, but a totally different thing to tarnish (mind you so harshly) their name. Like I said, there are bigger issues to tackle. That is my opinion of not just SPUBS, but a few others.

I can only speculate on what these “Simple Matters†are; and Im sure you will one day impart your observation, but be That as it may, ill have you know Spubs has invested time and effort instructing the English speaking communities on basics of Islam. Not only do they refute people who deserve to be refuted(via scholars ofcourse), since this is an great branch of islam that no muslim should belittle, they spend enormous time Teaching the people the basic principals of islam. a testament of their hard work are the books they publish and dispense, Such as Usul athalatah, Usool A sunnah, a mountain of knowledge, Fataawaa on Fasting, Zakat and Taraaweeh, and many more, their bookstore contains everything one needs to know about islam(A –Z)

 

http://www.salafibookstore.com/sbs/

 

A part from their bookstore, they have invest time and money into their various websites, one that is solely devoted to children (http://www.islam4kids.com/)

 

plus their audio website carries many lectures covering all aspects of islam, a landmark of the “basic fundamentals of islam†they teach!

 

“As far as I know, they are located in the west; we are not in a land of scholars where we can concentrate on refutationsâ€

This organization is headed by Aboo Khadeejah 'Abdul-Waahid, who has been involved in the da'wah for quite some time and has delivered lectures and classes in England, Canada and the US. He has been recommended by the likes of Shaykh Aboo Anas Hamad al-'Uthmaan and Shaykh Muhammad al-Anjaree and others.

 

Daawood Adeeb Aboo Tasneem(a pioneer of Da’wah Salafiyha in the west) resides in Riyaadh, Saudi Arabia where he is in contact with the 'Ulamaa. He continues to call to ad-Da'watus-Salafiyyah through his lectures and classes, remaining steadfast to the speech of the 'Ulamaa (Scholars) of Ahlus-Sunnah.

 

Aboo Hakeem is a student at the Islaamic University of al-Madeenah. He travels to various countries giving da’wah. He is also close to some of the major Scholars of today, such as Shaykh ’Ubayd al-Jaabiree.

 

Aboo 'Abdullaah Hasan as-Sumaalee, originally from Cardiff, Wales. Hasan has studied for a number of years in Dammaaj, the home of al-’Allaamah Muqbil Ibn Haadee al-Waadi’ee (rahimahullaah). Currently, Aboo 'Abdullaah conducts classes and tele-links in the UK and America

 

These brothers and among others give regular lectures on Paltalk, under the room title,†LIVE Salafipublications.com†and Salafitalk.net, they make round trips to different part of the world speaking on many issues not Just (JarC Wa ta’deel) disparaging others!

 

This is their website,

 

Welcome!

I am a non-Muslim and wish to understand Islaam... [Enter Here]

I am a Christian seeking enlightenment... [Enter Here]

I am a Muslim and wish to learn the basics... [Enter Here]

I am a regular visitor... [Enter Here]

I want to buy Islamic books... [salafiBookstore.Com]

I want to read and study the Qur'an... [TheNobleQuran.Com]

I want to read and study the Sahih... [sahihalBukhari.Com]

I want to read and study Muslim's Sahih... [sahihMuslim.Com]

I want to listen to Salafi Audio... [salafiAudio.Com]

I want to read about Islam 4 Kids... [islam4Kids.Com]

I want to read articles by the Salafee Scholars:

[albani|binbaz|binuthaymin|rabee|ubayd|fawzan|muqbil]

 

 

^as seen above, they spend lots of times translating the speech of the scholars for the people, bridging the gap between the scholars and the English speaking world!

 

 

so of what benefit is it to label this person and that person a qutubi or khawaarij (do you know that bad nicknames are xaraam? saying that hebal hebal al-khaariji)

The labels go along with the ideology the people are upon, every ideology has fervent callers and adherents and its essential we label them accordingly! However this does not mean we shut the door of advising and inviting to good!

 

For example, What benefit was it for Ibn taymiyah and other to say “im Ahlul Sunnah Wa Jamaaca� Do you believe the Khawarij during the times of Ali(ra) called themselves Khawarij? Wasn’t it the Companions who gave them the title? Where did the label Ahlul Sunnah Wa Jamaca Come from?!? Where these words uttered by the Messenger of Allah? So what benefit was it for scholars of the past to say “ we are from Ahlul Sunnah Wa Jamaaca and this is what we call to; Are we not All Muslims? Do you think the Jahmees called themselves Jahmeyah, Wasn’t it the scholars during the time of Imam Ahmed who gave them this label? Werent the salaf not known to say†do not sit with him he is Murji’,he is from Rafidi, or Mubtad’ ect?

 

Labelling the people according to their ideology or association is not haram!Rather is from the way of the salaf! As seen below

 

Yahyaa bin Sa’eed al-Qattaan (Rahimahullaah) said, "When Sufyaan ath-Thawree

came to Basrah he began to look into the affair of ar-Rabee’ bin Subaih and the

people’s estimation of him. He asked them, ‘What is his madhhab?’, and they said,

‘His madhhab is but the Sunnah’. He then asked, ‘Who is his companionship?’ and

they replied, ‘The people of Qadr’ so he replied, [/b]‘In that case he is a Qadari’." [Al-

Ibaanah (2/453)]

 

 

Shaikh Uthaimeen (Rahimahullaah) was asked, “What is the benefit in the students of

knowledge learning about the (deviant) sects o fthe Mu'tazilah, the Jahmiyyah and the

Khawaarij, since they do not exist in our time?

 

The Shaikh (Rahimahullaah) responded, “Learning about the deviant sects in our time

has benefits, (from) which are:That we know the basis for their positions so

that we can refute them if we find them, and in reality they do exist; And the questioner

saying that they do not exist now (in our time) is based upon his knowledge only.

However, that which is known to us and other than us who read about the affairs of

the people is that these sects are in existence and they are active in

propogating their message. And because of this, it is imperative we study their

opinions/views so that we know their falseness and know the truth (that we are upon)

and refute those (of them) who discourse with us. [Kitaabul-'Ilm - Page 128, Question

No.25 (courtesy of Fatwa-Online.com)]

 

 

There is indeed great benefit springing from these labels. if we do not give labels how would Ahlul Sunnah distinguish themselves ?How will one know who to sit with and who to withdraw from? Unless you think everyone who takes the Shahada is upon the Quran and Sunnah understood by the Salaf us Salih and there is no such as thing as 72 sects heading to the fire!

 

The Qutubis and Sururis, ikhwanies are a contemporary misguided groups, explained by our noble Shaykh, the 'Allaamah, the Muhaddith, the Faqeeh, the present Muftee of the district of Jaazaan and the carrier of the Flag of the Sunnah and hadeeth - he sheds some light on these groups who have recently raised the flag of misguidance!

 

Since you love the scholars and their efforts, much like me, I think you might enjoy this!

http://www.al-ibaanah.com/articles.php?ArtID=77

[Conscious Manipulation]

Very good read indeed!

 

This brother always seems to hit the nail right on the head.

 

Reading the article I did not get the impression that the author was bashing Muslim scholars. He simply stated established matters in Islam such as the institution of polygamy and the issue of defensive jihad (where, as far as I know, it is and has always been unanimously agreed upon that a khilafah is not need) in which there's no room for "re-interpretation".

 

In this post 9/11 era where we have an outbreak of Muslim "moderates" so ready to twist and redefine issues in Islam so firmly established all in an effort to "reconcile the irreconcilable" it's refreshing to read an article like this.

[Rahima]

Brother Salafi, whilst I thank-you immensely for the time you have taken out to explain the stance of the scholars on Usama to me (which i was well aware of ), I was not disagreeing with it at all, just making a fundamental point. As far as I am concerned there is not enough proof to vilify Usama (on the crimes of terrorism-assuming we know what they are) and for that reason my loyalty is with him, be he a takfiri or an innovator (not that I am belittling these sins) makes not much difference in this point. As far as I am aware, Usama has not been declared a kafir, and the choice is Usama vs the kuffaar (that is a clear cut situation). There was no reason for all of this, I don’t believe anyone was discussing the Islam of Usama (apart from yourself), but nonetheless, jzk.

 

NO Sister, The Noble Dr Saleh As-saleh agrees with my stands On Osama;

The stance I was speaking about was on the credentials on Shaykh Ibn Baz, not on Usama. Hope that’s clearer .

 

Nonetheless, allow me to summaries this before we go on to a five set match , Usama with all his flaws and sins deserves our loyalty as Muslims for he is a Muslim, we both agree that the scholars are not infallible (so to say that for example Shaykh Ibn Baz made a mistake in the fatwa for the first gulf-war does not mean I am disrespecting or questioning the Islam of the scholar) and we shall never agree upon SPUBS (I’m not into the habit of discussing what this and that Muslim is if I have not even mastered the basics of Islam myself- I have greater issue of matter). If it is for major issues, then yes we generally need to warn the Muslims (assuming that the speaker is continuously lecturing on a point of deviation), but alas I have not seen that with such groups. They form this small group where all must agree on almost every point (to not do means to incur a ban). To say for example that the Saudi Royal family needs to be overthrown (constitutes a deviation for them) or to speak well of Shaykh Safar and Shaykh Salman is a big NO NO.

 

According to SPUBS, I am in the wrong for praising these two shuyuukh and if I were to do so in public (assuming I was a speaker who did so at a lecture), I would be shunned and my name tarnished in their forums.

 

Let me give you another example of a scholar that might fall into the camp that this article criticises. Dr Yusuf Al Qaradawi came to the UK recently at the invitation of the Mayor of London.

For this particular incident, it is not what the article speaks of. To go to the land of the kuffaar for dacwa even at the invitation of the enemies of Islam is in accordance with the teaching of the Qur’an and Hadith. The article is not speaking of such issues as the recent trip of shaykh Qaradawi, rather it highlights Muslims who make joy trips at the invite of the enemies of Islam while ignoring the plight of the Muslims and the suffering which they (the enemies) cause them (Muslims). During the invasion of Afghanistan, certain Muslim speakers in the US (at the invitation of the white house) were giving advice to the US government with respect to the ways to deal with Muslims and tackle Muslim hostility- I do believe that the article was speaking of such matters and not the dacwa expedition of Shaykh Qaradawi .