Who are the Muslim Moderates (Neo-Mods) ?

[sahal]

I am very happy to see Salafi-on-line had finally responded and exposed himself.

 

I think he told us what if i would say you may not have believed it.

 

They're lot but these are the most important exposes.

 

Look this is getting ridiculous, for the sake of Allah sister listen, the author called Osama a "Shaykh", (a form of praising) By Allah he is not a shaykh,

And Ibn jibreen does not even come close to the status of Albani!

Anyways as far as I know this fatwah is concerning those kids, and youth who call people "misguided" upon whims, without dalil or a scholar preceding them!

MOst people think its an interesting point, and I too thought it was an interesting point, until I read The scholars reply and refutation of Ibn Jibreen to such extend that they used harsh words!As far as I know to this day he has not responded to one single of these refutation from the kibar Ulama!

Shaikh Zaid makes mention at the very beginning that he was saddened to see a Shaikh like Ibn Jibreen being associated with the CDLR of al-Mis'ary, being taken unawares, and then he was made to think that the likes of Qutb was just like the great scholars of the past, who had great knowledge, but who erred in some areas.

Sister there is certain fundamentals of the deen, Allah does not accept the deeds of a Kafir and nor does he accept the deeds of Innovator until he relinquishes that innovation and his innovation earnes him a ticket straight to the fire if he does not relinquishes before death! These are basic principals!

These Quotes and many others show us that these Cult are the only people who know who is right who is wrong? what is right what is wrong? who is high who is low? whose deeds have been accepted by ALLAH whose not enz.

 

and don't forget even if you're real SHEIKH like Qaradawai, Ibn jabireen, Salman al-awda, safar al-xawali, C/raxman C/khaliq and many others, they have another way to criticise them.

 

Did they confined the contemporary scholars? BIG NO and this is the most dangerous issue since this led that some youngesters burn SAHIH BUKHARI and SAHIH MUSLIM in MADINAH when they heard fatwas like this.

 

As for those who were mentioned along with him, like an-Nawawee and ibn Hajar, it is wrong and oppressive to refer to them as being “among the people of innovationâ€. I know that they were amongst the Ash‘arites, but they did not intend to contradict the Qur’aan and the Sunnah. It is only that they mistakenly thought two things regarding the ‘aqeedah which they had inherited from the Ash‘arites!

When these youngesters heard that IAMAM NAWAWI and IBN XAJAR AL-CASQALAANI's AQEEDA were not correct they burned their EXPLANATIONS of SAHIH BUKHARI and MUSLIM.

 

and my question here is; Who told the Sheikh Albani that Sayid Qutub and Hassan al-banna intend to contradict the Qur’aan and the Sunnah and Imaam Nawawi and Casqalaani did not intend?

and i heard similar remarks from the sheikh in the past like; we know some of those who entered parlimment, they didn't enter except to gain some of the wealth enz.

 

This is the way of this Cult, to destroy all the efforts of Muslims except what their desires liked it.

 

Furthermore, do you think that they're even real followers of the Sheikh's that they're claiming to be their followers if they give the Fatwas that contradict their desire? BIG NO.

 

the best example is this:

 

I thank you sister I knew of these fatwah, and these Qutubies have not cease( not saying u are one, but im sure u got it from there websites) attacking the salafi brothers, and they quote and old fatwa’s of the noble MayShaykh and purposely hind the truth! what's is more evil is that they promote and praise the people of innovations under the name of Salafi, I know this because my beloved Sister I was a devoted followers of these Qutubies Harakiyyeen, until Allah guided me from their deception! For example u posted three fatwahs by the scholars, these fatwahs are the trophy of the Qutubies! the innocent and new salafi who love these scholars usually fall for these deceptions, much like myself, however Alhamdulillah there is always people out there who allah uses to rebut their faleshood, (again ukti FilLah is this is directed towards you) just an observation i made when I was an avid adheer to their so called Salafi Manhaj and webpages!

Salafi-on-line whether you call Trophy or not I stick on this OLD FATWAS from those Sheikhs; So tell me whether i am wrong now or they were wrong that time?

 

I remember many years ago i listened one of the highest Sheikhs of this group critizising IBN TAYMIYAH, the strange is that his criticism is a praise to IBN TAYMIYAH while he don't know.

 

Finally, Do you want to be save from this group's criticism? it's very easy! just have a PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE (BAYCA) with Saudi Kingdom and do whatever you like, yu'll be untouchable. but as long as you're against this kingdom every speech, book, work from you will be observed and criticised by this group.

[AYOUB]

So what you know of the Noble Shaykh All depends on who’s information you were expose to!

Salafi

It doesn't matter what I believe, just wanted to know if he fought against leaders of his time. Reading between the lines, I think your answer was YES, i'm i correct? If so, did he and his partners who created the monarchy have the permission of the Khalifah who was around at the time?

 

 

the Saudi government are not doing Shirk, they are not Kufar but Muslims, and its not permissible to overthrow them, even if they are Unjust! The fact that they seem oppressive does not give the youth or other then them the license to overthrow them or even speak ill of them,( backbiting is Haram and Allah did not sanction these such actions) Unless you have dalil of course!

You knew where I was going with this, didn't you?

 

1. I don't know about Shirk, but the SAUD family do not rule by what ALLAH ordained, do they?

 

2.“O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Awliya (protectors to whom you have to be subordinate to), they are but Awliya to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Awliya, then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are wrong­doers. [5:51]

[Salafi_Online]

Salafi

It doesn't matter what I believe, just wanted to know if he fought against leaders of his time. Reading between the lines, I think your answer was YES, i'm i correct? If so, did he and his partners who created the monarchy have the permission of the Khalifah who was around at the time?

 

 

quote:

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the Saudi government are not doing Shirk, they are not Kufar but Muslims, and its not permissible to overthrow them, even if they are Unjust! The fact that they seem oppressive does not give the youth or other then them the license to overthrow them or even speak ill of them,( backbiting is Haram and Allah did not sanction these such actions) Unless you have dalil of course!

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You knew where I was going with this, didn't you?

 

1. I don't know about Shirk, but the SAUD family do not rule by what ALLAH ordained, do they?

 

2.“O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Awliya (protectors to whom you have to be subordinate to), they are but Awliya to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Awliya, then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are wrong­doers. [5:51]

i feel like im repeating myself, i was certain we cover these grounds! Brother no matter what there will always be people who will never be pleased with others no matter what they do! and this is a fact, everyone has enemies and everyone has friends!

 

So as far as Abdul Wahhab is concerned, it is according to my believe that the Khalifah was Abolished after the death of Ali(ra) then Kinship replaced it, Mua'wiyah(ra) being the first king!

 

AbdulWahhab and Al Sa'ood fought against and people we were committing clear kufr, so in this case its permissable to overthrow the ruling party if you have the power to due so! there is a hadith about this, its says obey those who are in power unless you see clear kufr which you have prove from Allah and you have the power to overthrow them! so AbdulWahab was following the Sunnah and the Shariyah! thats why the salafi Scholars love him, praise him, and Call him one of the greatest muhajid and scholars that lived!

 

as for you second question, no scholar has declared Saudi government to be disbelievers!

 

and for your ayah, i suppose you are saying that they Took the Kufar as Awliyah which would make then disbelievers! if your bold enough to say this! i say my man you have some balls there!

[AYOUB]

^^^^ Saxiib nothing to do with balls, if i'm wrong feel free to correct me.

 

 

So as far as Abdul Wahhab is concerned, it is according to my believe that the Khalifah was Abolished after the death of Ali(ra) then Kinship replaced it, Mua'wiyah(ra) being the first king!

Really? First time i've heard it like that!

 

 

The arguement between Osama and the SAUD family is regarding the issue of inviting the non-Muslim troops to protect them. In the 1980's Osama and every Saudi scholar agreed it was correct to fight against the then ruler of Afghanistan when he called in troops from the USSR to protect him, what is the difference between that and the invitation of American troops to the holy lands by the monarchs of Saud?

 

PS - DO YOU BELIEVE THE SAUD FAMILY RULE ACCORDING TO WHAT ALLAH ORDAINED?

[Viking]

as for you second question, no scholar has declared Saudi government to be disbelievers!

SAlafi_Online,

I was just wondering, does a govt have to be declared "disbelievers" in order to depose them? What about IMMORALITY, SECULARISM, GREED, UNHOLY ALLIANCES with the enemies of Islam, CORRUPTION, NEPOTISM, EXTRAVAGANCE etc? Are these criteria for deposing a govt and replace it with an Islamic one?

[Salafi_Online]

quote:

Really? First time i've heard it like that!

this is where i got this from bother!

 

Shaykh ul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah ( d.728H)

said:

 

"And know that most of the innovations connected to 'uloom(sciences) and acts of worship occured in this Ummah at the end of the period of the Rightly guided Khaleefahs; just asa the Prophet informed, when he said: "Those of you who live long after me will see a great deal of differences. So Hold fast to my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the Rightly Guided Khaleefahs after me"...So when the period of the Rightly Guided Khaleefahs had passed and the rule of kingship appeared, deficiencies appeared in the leaders, and therefore deficiency spread also to the people of knowledge and Deen.So during the end of the rule of 'Alee (rta) - the innovation of the Khwaarij (5) and Raafidah (6) appeared; this being connected to the issue of leadership and khilaafah, and what was connected to this from actions and Shareeah rulings

 

The kingship of Mu'aawiyah was a kingship of mercy, so when it passed , the rule of Yazeed(Muawiyah's son) came and fitnah (trials and discord) took place within it: the killling of al-Husayn in Iraaq, the fitnah of the people of Hurrah in al-Madeenah and the seige of Makkah when 'Abdullah ibn az-Zubayr made his stand. Then Yazeed passed away and the Ummah split-up. Ibn az-Zubayr in the Hijaaz, Banu Hakam in ash-Shaam (Syria, Jordan and Palestine) and the jump to power of Mukhtaar ibn Abee'Ubayd and others in 'Iraaq. All of this took place at the end of the period of the Companions, when there only remained the likes of 'Abdullah ibn 'Abaas, 'Abdullah ibn Umar, Jaabir ibn 'Abdullah, Abu Saeed al-Khudree and others. The innovations of the Qadarriyah (7) and the Murjiah (8) then occured and it was refused by those Companions who remained, as they had, along with others, refuted the innovations of the Khawaarij and the Raafidah.

(Majmooul-Fataawaa (10/354-368) of Ibn Taymiyyah.)

 

 

The arguement between Osama and the SAUD family is regarding the issue of inviting the non-Muslim troops to protect them. In the 1980's Osama and every Saudi scholar agreed it was correct to fight against the then ruler of Afghanistan when he called in troops from the USSR to protect him, what is the difference between that and the invitation of American troops to the holy lands by the monarchs of Saud?

 

PS - DO YOU BELIEVE THE SAUD FAMILY RULE ACCORDING TO WHAT ALLAH ORDAINED?

two things Osama Believes the royal Family are disbelievers(he makes takfir)! he is a khawarij, and the idiology of the khawarij is well known, inshallah its upon you to do some reseach on them!

 

as for th USSR i have no idea what your talking about, i dont think i was even born then! but as far my limited knowledge is concerned the Russians attacked Afghanistan, and Osama sought the help of the Kufar( ie the USA) they supplied him and his troops with weapons! Osama and the USA were allies, so im not sure what your referring to! I do not remember reading anywhere the Saudi GOV or saudi scholars got involved in Afghanistan!

 

PS - DO YOU BELIEVE THE SAUD FAMILY RULE ACCORDING TO WHAT ALLAH ORDAINED?

Yes brother, and this is the views of Muqbil, Fawzan and Shyakh Anjaree, and bin baaz and uthaymin!

 

taken from: http://www.al-ibaanah.com/articles.php?ArtID=77

 

"And our rulers in this land (of Saudi Arabia) are Muslims - all praise be to Allaah. They use Allaah’s Legislation for judging in their court systems and they establish the prescribed punishments (hudood). So declaring them to be disbelievers or talking about them in a manner that leads to revolting and rebelling against them is considered a great form of causing corruption. Due to this, we must warn against those who adhere to this methodology or rid ourselves from them, especially since they have attacked the scholars of this land by reviling them, making slanderous remarks against them and accusing them of betraying the Deen. This matter indicates what they are behind"

 

basic principle is that: Men are known by way of the Haqq (truth) and the Haqq is not known by way of men. So it is obligatory on us to accept the truth and to worship Allaah, Lord of all worlds, by it, and to abandon everyone that treads an innovated methodology. And we must place as our role model, the Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu 'alayhi wa sallam), his Khulafaa, his Companions, and those who followed them amongst the Imaams of guidance. And Allaah is the One who grants success.

[Salafi_Online]

Viking i just noticed your post, inshallah walaal im pressed for time, ill get back to you on that!

[sahal]

the Saudi government are not doing Shirk, they are not Kufar but Muslims, and its not permissible to overthrow them, even if they are Unjust! The fact that they seem oppressive does not give the youth or other then them the license to overthrow them or even speak ill of them,( backbiting is Haram and Allah did not sanction these such actions) Unless you have dalil of course!

So, It's haram to backbite Al-saud but its permissible to backbite Noble ULUMA and Mujaahidiin

 

Ayoub Sheikh wrote:

In the 1980's Osama and every Saudi scholar agreed it was correct to fight against the then ruler of Afghanistan when he called in troops from the USSR to protect him, what is the difference between that and the invitation of American troops to the holy lands by the monarchs of Saud?

waiting your response as you were good last days :cool:

[sahal]

This is very important point.

AbdulWahhab and Al Sa'ood fought against and people we were committing clear kufr, so in this case its permissable to overthrow the ruling party if you have the power to due so! there is a hadith about this, its says obey those who are in power unless you see clear kufr which you have prove from Allah and you have the power to overthrow them! so AbdulWahab was following the Sunnah and the Shariyah! thats why the salafi Scholars love him, praise him, and Call him one of the greatest muhajid and scholars that lived!

....and you have the power to overthrow them!

 

This part of the hadith dosn't exist it's from your pocket or your groups pockets to justify some actions and to dismiss other actions.

 

I would also like to hear from you the clear KUFR that OTHMAN KHILAFAH (I'm not saying OTHMAN EMPIRE sine this is Western name) committed that justified to overthrow it.

[Mohamed nuur]

How o you become a nomad agian?

[Salafi_Online]

SAlafi_Online,

I was just wondering, does a govt have to be declared "disbelievers" in order to depose them? What about IMMORALITY, SECULAR, GREED, UNHOLY ALLIANCES with the enemies of Islam, CORRUPTION, NEPOTISM, EXTRAVAGANCE etc? Are these criteria for deposing a govt and replace it with an Islamic one?

Brother Viking you asked a great Question!

 

to make a long story short ,†yes†they have to be disbelievers for one to depose them! Everything you mentioned would be classed as sins which do not lead to disbelieve (kufr)! I suppose you’d agree, Or else you would not have asked the question!

 

The following are substantiations from the creed of Ahlul Sunnah concerning the oppressive Rulers! I placed them in three categories,

 

(1) the Prophet(saw)

(2) the companions

(3) the Tabee’en(those who followed the companions)

 

 

(1)

 

The Prophet sallaahu alaihi wa sallam said, ".... I have left you upon clear guidance. Its night is like its day. No one deviates from it after me except that he is destroyed."

[Reported by Ahmad, Ibn Maajah (no. 43) and al-Haakim. It is declared saheeh by

Shaikh al-Albaanee in as-Saheehah (no. 937)]

 

It is important to understand that Allaah has perfected this religion and has guided this

Ummaah to the correct path in every affair.So much so that there is not area of human

Activity except that Allaah openly illustrated and teaching us what’s halal and what’s Haram so that no being has an excuse!

 

Hudhayfah ibn Al-Yamaan (radiallaahu ‘anhu said):“I said, ‘Oh Messenger of Allaah,

we used to be in evil and then Allaah came with good and now we are in that. So will

there be, after this good, more evil? He said, ‘Yes.’ And there will be after that evil,

more good?’ He said, ‘Yes’ I asked, ‘How is that?’

He said: ‘There will be, after me, leaders that will not seek guidance from my

guidance, nor will they follow my Sunnah. There will be among them men with hearts

of devils in the bodies of people. ‘

I said, ‘What should I do, oh Messenger of Allaah, if I reach that time?’

He said: ‘Listen to and obey your leader even if he beats your back and your wealth is

taken – listen and obey.’†[Reported by Bukhaaree, Muslim, Ibn Majah, al-Bayhaaqee]

 

 

The Prophet sallaahu alaihi wa sallam said, ‘‘There are three things towards which the

heart of a Muslim never shows hatred or rancour: Making one’s action sincerely for

Allaah; giving obedience to the rulers (wulaatul-umoor); and sticking to the Jamaa’ah

(united body).†[Ahmed and Tirmidhi]

 

The Prophet sallaahu alaihi wa sallam said, “ Whosoever sees something from his leader

of sin, then let him hate whatever occurs from sin. And let him not remove his hand

from obedience, since whoever removes his hand from disobedience and splits off from

the Jamaa’ah (united body), then he dies the death of Jaahiliyyah (pre-Islaamic times

of ignorance).’’ [al-Bukhaaree (13/5) and Muslim (no. 1849)]

 

 

Alaah subhanahu wa ta’ala says, “O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle

and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to

Allah and the Apostle, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very

good in the end.†[4.59]

 

The Companions asked the Prophet sallaahu alaihi wa salam, “O Messenger of Allaah!

When you mentioned that there will be rulers, ‘you will approve of some things from

them, and disapprove of others things.â€

They said: “So what do you command us to do?â€

He said: ‘‘Give them their right, and invoke Allaah, since He is with you.’’

’Ubaadah (radiyallaahu ’anhu) said: ‘‘We gave the oath of allegiance to the Messenger

of Allaah sallahu alaihi wa sallam that we would not oppose the command, not its

people.’’

 

He said: ‘‘Except if you were to see clear disbelief (kufran bawaahan) about which you

have a proof from Allaah.’’ Related by Muslim (6/17)

 

The Prophet said: ‘‘The person must obey in whatever he loves, and in whatever he hates, in ease and in hardship, in willingness and un-willingness; except if he is commanded to disobey Allaah. So if he is commanded to disobey Allaah, then he should not listen, not should he obey.’’ Related by al-Bukhaaree (4/203)

 

Al Barbahaaree (d. 329H) also said, "It is not permissible to fight the ruler or rebel against him even if he oppresses. This is due to the saying of the Messenger of Allah (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) to Abu Dharr al Ghifaaree, "Have patience, even if he (i.e. the Ameer) is an Abyssinian slave," (Reported by Muslim.)

 

 

PROPHET MUHAMMAD (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) saying to the Ansaar, "Have patience until you meet me at the Pool," (Reported by Bukharee from Usayd ibn Hudayr.)

 

 

(2)

 

Abud-Dardaa (radhiallaahu anhu) said, “Beware of cursing the Rulers (Wullaat), for

verily, cursing them is clipping (i.e., of the religion) and hating them is barrenness.†It

was said, ‘0 Aboo Dardaa, then how should we behave when we see in them that which

we do not like?’ He said, “Have patience, for verily, when Allaah sees that from you

He will take them away from you with death.†[As-Sunnah, 2/488]

 

Aboo Dardaa (radhiallaahu anhu) said, “Verily, the first (appearance) is the hypocrisy of

a man is his censure and rebuke of his Ruler (Imaam).†[At-Tamheed 21/287]

 

Anas ibn Maalik (radiallaahu anhu) said, “The senior amongst the Companions of

Allaah’s Messenger (swallallahu alaihi wasallam) forbade us (saying), ‘Do not revile

your Rulers (Umaraa), not act dishonestly with them, nor hate them and have taqwaa

of Allaah and be patient — for verily the matter is close (at hand).†[As-Sunnah of Ibn

Abee ‘Aasim, 2/488]

 

Narrated Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman: "Subay' ibn Khalid said: I came to Kufah at the time when Tustar was conquered. I took some mules from it. When I entered the mosque (of Kufah), I found there some people of moderate stature, and among them was a man whom you could recognize when you saw him that he was from the people of Hijaz. I asked: Who is he? The people frowned at me and said: Do you not recognize him? This is Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman, the companion of the Apostle of Allaah (peace_be_upon_him). Then Hudhayfah said: People used to ask the Apostle of Allaah (peace_be_upon_him) about good, and I used to ask him about evil. Then the people stared hard at him. He said: I know the reason why you dislike it. I then asked: Apostle of Allaah, will there be evil as there was before, after this good which Allaah has bestowed on us? He replied: Yes. I asked: Wherein does the protection from it lie? He replied: In the sword. I asked: Apostle of Allaah, what will then happen? He replied: If Allaah has on Earth a caliph who flays your back and takes your property, obey him, otherwise die holding onto the stump of a tree. I asked: What will come next? He replied: Then the Antichrist (Dajjaal) will come forth accompanied by a river and fire. He who falls into his fire will certainly receive his reward, and have his load taken off him, but he who falls into his river will have his load retained and his reward taken off him. I then asked: What will come next? He said: The Last Hour will come. (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 35, Trials and Fierce Battles (Kitab Al-Fitan Wa Al-Malahim), Number 4232)"

 

(3)

 

Ibn Sa'ad (Rahimahullaah) related that a group of Muslims came to al Hasan al Basree (d.

110H Rahimahullaah) seeking a verdict to rebel against al Hajjaaj. So they said, "O Abu

Sa'eed! What do you say about fighting this oppressor who has unlawfully spilt blood

and unlawfully taken wealth and did this and that?"

 

So al Hasan said, "I hold that he should not be fought. If this is the punishment from

Allah (Ta'aala), then you will not be able to remove it with your swords. If this is a trial

from Allah (Ta'aala), then be patient until Allah's Judgement comes, and He is the

best of Judges."

So they left Al Hasan, disagreed with him and rebelled against al Hajjaaj - so al Hajjaaj

killed them all. [Tabaqaatul Kubraa (7/163-165)]

 

Imaam Ahmed (Rahimahullaah) said,

“The description of the Believer from Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah (is): (Imaam

Ahmed mentioned number of principles; however two were relevant to this subject)

 

That he never (has) doubts in his faith, and he never declares any of the people of tawheed to be a disbeliever on account of a sin.

 

That supplication is to be made for the Leaders of the Muslims, that they are corrected and reformed. That you do not take out your sword against them, that you do not fight in times of tribulations, but rather you stick to your home.†[usool us-Sunnah]

 

 

Imaam Ahmed (Rahimahullaah) said, “Ninety men from among the Taabi’een, the scholars of the Muslims and of the Salaf and the Jurists of the various cities are (unanimously) agreed that the Sunnah upon which the Messenger of Allaah sallaahu alaihi wa sallam died is: (again Imaam Ahmed mentions a number of Usool, three were relevant to this subject)

 

Having patience under the banner of the one in authority, in whatever condition he

may be in, just or unjust,.

 

That we do not set out (in revolt) against the Rulers with the sword, even if they are

unjust and oppressive.

 

That we do not declare anyone from among the people of Tawheed a disbeliever even if

they commit the major sins.†[usool us-Sunnah]

 

 

Imaam Aboo Bark al-Aajurree (d.360H Rahimahullaah) said: ‘‘It is not permissible for the one who sees the uprising of a khaarijee who has revolted against the leader, whether he is (a) just or oppressive (leader) - so this person has revolted and gathered a group behind him, has pulled out his sword and has made lawful the killing of Muslims - it is not fitting for the one who sees this, that he becomes deceived by this person’s recitation of the Qur‘aan, the length of his standing in Prayer, nor his constant fasting, nor his good and excellent words in knowledge when it is clear to him that this person’s way and methodology is that of the Khawaarij.’’ [Refer to ash-Sharee’ah (p. 28)]

 

 

The Prophet said, “Listen and obey, even if the ruler seizes you and beats your back.†[/b]Related by Muslim (6/19)

 

So it is obligatory to obey the ruler of the Muslims in obedience to Allaah, but if he commands disobedience (to Allaah), then he is not to be obeyed in this command, meaning: in the command of disobedience. However, he is still to be obeyed in other than that, from that which does not involve sin.

 

 

As for dealing with the disbelieving (kaafir) ruler, then this differs depending upon the various situations. So if the Muslims have the power and capability to fight him, and to remove him from rule, and a Muslim ruler is present, then that is obligatory upon them, and this is from Jihaad in the Path of Allaah. As for when they are not capable of opposing him, then it is not permissible for them to instigate anything by oppression and disbelief, because this will result in harm and affliction upon the Muslims.

The Prophet stayed in Makkah for thirteen years or his 23 years as a messenger and the government there was a disbelieving government. Despite this, whoever accepted Islaam from his Companions did not fight against the disbelievers. Rather, they were prohibited from fighting the disbelievers for this extremely long period of time, except after the Prophet migrated and a state was established and a community arose making them capable of fighting the disbelievers, this is the methodology of Islaam.

 

So when the Muslims are under a kaafir government, and they are not capable of removing it, then they must hold firmly onto Islaam and their ’aqeedah. However, they should not endanger themselves by endeavouring to oppose the disbelievers, because that will only result in the destruction and annihilation of the da’wah (call). As for when they have power (quwwah) making them capable of Jihaad, then they should perform jihaad in the Path of Allaah upon the known Sharee’ah fundamentals.

 

 

To recap, it’s not lawful to revolt or rebel against the ruler and neither is it permissible to Openly speak about the faults of the rulers, as this a smaller type of rebellion which encourages and incites the people to rebel and fight them. Rather it is from the Sunnah to supplicate for the rulers and to advise them privately. And some from amongst the Muslims have taken to believing that they will establish the religion by their innovated methodologies. And many of the youth have been duped into believing that the Sharia will be established by rebellions, and over throwing the authorities. This is a clear appalling innovation which came from the Khawarij. They rebelled against the ruler of the Muslims (‘Alee radi allahu anhu), claiming that he did not rule by the Sharia and that that he was an apostate. And this is the same thing we see today from the Khawarij, who have made Takfeer of the Muslims, and have deemed rebellion against the rulers lawful.

[Salafi_Online]

These Quotes and many others show us that these Cult are the only people who know who is right who is wrong? what is right what is wrong? who is high who is low? whose deeds have been accepted by ALLAH whose not enz.

Sahal brother since you studied with the student of Bin Baaz, Mashallah you must carry a great wealth of knowledge! you must have good grasp of the Shari'ah and the Usool of the deed!

 

brother let me ask you this sincerely! (please do not go off on a tangent) just do me this one favour as your brother in islam!

 

explain the following quotes to me! please save me from my ignorance!

 

Al-Fudayl ibn ‘Iyaad (Rahimahullaah) said, “Do not sit with a person of innovation.

Allaah has rendered his actions futile and has taken the light of Islaam from his

heart.†[sharh Usoolul-I’tiqaad of al-Laalikaa’ee, 110. 260]

 

 

Imam ash-Shaafi’ee (Rahimahullaah) said: “If the servant were to meet Allaah having

committed every sin except Shirk, that would be better for him than if he were to meet

Allaah with some deviant belief.â€

 

 

Imaam Ahmad (Rahimahiullaah) said: “The graves of sinners from People of Sunnah is

a garden, while the graves of the pious ascetics from the People of Innovation is a

barren pit. The sinners among Ahlus-Sunnah are the Friends of Allaah, while the

pious among Ahlul-Bid’ah are the Enemies of Allaah.â€

 

 

Sa’eed bin Jubair (Rahimahullaah) said: “If my son were to keep the company of a

sinning scoundrel upon the Sunnah that would be more beloved to me than if he were

to accompany a worshipping innovator.â€

 

 

Arta’ Ibn al-Mundir (Rahimahullaah) said: “If my son were one of the sinful wicked

people, that would be more beloved to me than if he were a Follower of Desires (i.e. a

deviant).â€

 

Al-Hasan al-Basree (Rahimuhullaah) said: "From the person of innovation Allah does

not accept Prayer, nor Fasting, nor Hajj, nor 'Umra, nor Jihaad, nor repentance, nor

charity."Al-Laalikaa’ee (1/140, no: 280)

 

Al-Hasan al-Basree (Rahimahullaah) said: "Allah does not accept anything from a

person of innovation."

 

 

Al-Fudayl ibn 'Iyaad (Rahimahullaah) said: "No action of the person of innovation is

raised up to Allah."

 

Al-Hasan Al-Basree said: "There is no backbiting with regard to (talking about) the innovator or the sinner who openly professes his evil."Al-Laalikaa’ee (1/140, no: 282)

 

Al-A’amash reported that Ibraaheem (An-Nakha’ee) said: "There is no backbiting with regard to (talking about) the innovator."Al-Laalikaa’ee (1/140, no: 276)

 

Ibn Al-Mubaarak said: "Al-Mi’allaa Ibn Hilaal is fine except when it comes to hadeeth, he lies." So someone among the sufis (i.e. ascetics) said: "O Abu ‘Abdir-Rahmaan! Are you backbiting?" So he said: "Be quiet! If we do not clarify this, how will the truth be made known from the falsehood?" Sharh ‘Ilal At-Tirmidhee of Ibn Rajab (1/349) and Al-Kifaayah of Al-Baghdaadee (91-92)

[sahal]

You're very clever indeed, you're answering only questions suitsyou and the rest .

 

All these copy & paste is to defend Al-saud and to attack our beloved scholars.

 

even if we assume all these ULUMA to be innovators what about Al-saud? are they better than these ULUMA.

 

I mentioned b4 that last part of this hadith (there is a hadith about this, its says obey those who are in power unless you see clear kufr which you have prove from Allah and you have the power to overthrow them!) is from someone's pocket and not from our PROPHET (S.A.W).

 

Fortunately you admitted in one of your copy & paste quotes that this extra doesn't exist: ...and you have the power to overthrow them!

You wrote;

‘‘Except if you were to see clear disbelief (kufran bawaahan) about which you

have a proof from Allaah.’’ Related by Muslim (6/17)

So, where the extra comes from?

 

and my last question is; I wonder weather all these controversial proofs are valid for all Muslim leaders including Ayad alawi, Hamid karazai enz. or only for FAHAD? :confused:

[Viking]

Salafi_Online,

This is the most spectacular and amazing defence I have ever seen of tyranny. What you are saying is that a ruler can do as he wishes with his people as long as he is not a "kufr"? This goes against my logic, and I am not the only one who feels that way. I wonder how much of these stem from the Ummayyads, that was the only way they could hold on to power, by claiming that it is a sin to depose them. May Allah SWT guide us.

[NGONGE]

I might be wrong, saaxib. But, the way I understood their argument was in the style of “ The king is dead, long live the king†et cetera.