Somalinimo-on-steroids

[Jamster]

Xanthus; I can never take seriously a lady involving herself in man's world.

 

NG: Dream mate; it will only be that; just a dream nothing much nothing less. Iska riyooda abtiyaal.

[Ibtisam]

Xanthus; I can never take seriously a lady involving herself in man's world.

Right, of course Sir, Now why did I not think of that! How they live is part of "man's world" :rolleyes: More than half of the population according to you cannot have say over how they live :rolleyes: Maarkii hooraa luug khaatah iitaalka.

 

Waaliida biiyo isskaak meed baa once la yiri, now I know what they meant!

[Baashi]

On Somalinimo

 

It worked prior 1960. It failed after and during independence. Way sarrifantyay! In time of war, unity is a desirable goal. Is united Somalia practical today? The answer is resounding NO! Is Somalinimo, if possible, desirable? Absolutely! Should we call on all Somalis to put their differences aside (in the face of Ethiopian aggression) and unite as one people who share religion, ethnicity, territory, culture, language, and what have you? We can always try! It is sure one notch better than negative tribalism.

 

On Secession

 

Some in the area want to secede. Others in the same area want to stay put. Both groups live in former British Somaliland territory. The former failed to sell [edit] "their" project to the latter, and vice versa. The latter is the founding clans of Puntland. As Ngonge implied, negative tribalsim is th central issue here. At this juncture the game is between SL and PL admins. Somalia sits on the bench. The world treats both admins as two important recovery zones and wants to keep them that way. Ethiopia benefits the animosity between them.

 

Legitimacy requires consent. Somaliland doesn't have the consent of the disputed areas. Sovereignty implies that one has the ability to exert control over the territory under one's rule.

 

On possible positions

 

For those of us who know better realize that this is a Somali civil war. It's about state power and all its trappings. It's about who gets what title in post conflict Somalia. It is rat race. Majority of the contestants tried hard to get the neighboring states on their side! Most innocent civilians are the ones who paid the price in the race to prevail and lead the post-conflict Somalia. Looking things from this prespective, there are also another set of possible positions:

 

1) Call for immediate cessation of violence followed by genuine reconciliation talks.

 

2) Support one side of the conflict.

 

Ethiopia cannot sustain "occupation" without the support of some Somalis. You can hate them, call them names, and indict them with high crimes but you cannot deny the fact that they are 1) Somalis 2) Consider Ethiopia a friend on their side.

 

Insurgnecy is not the solution. Having Ethiopia do the dirt biz of "clearing the bush" for a bumpless ride is equally couterproductive. Warmongering efforts from 1000 miles is nothing but empty rhetoric.

 

There will be negotiation. It will happen sooner or later. The question is how many lives must be lost and properties must be destroyed before that day comes.

 

Baaruud,

You are confused. Somaliland is here. They are our people. We disagree with the admin with their secession drive. We are not going to let them speak for those who are capable of speaking for themselves! No one hates you!!! There is no reason to do that. You just have to learn the fact that folks reasonable folks can and will disagree on matters of large importance.

 

Ayoub,

Xiin's point is that if Somalia is divisible so is Somaliland! Simple. You are right on one thing though Somalinimo (brotherhood) is not credible pronouncement anymore. The record, as you implied, speak for itself.

 

On Djibouti, awoowe Djibouti is here because of Somalinimo. We supported, gave them aid, compforted them, allocated funds for the liberation movement, negotiated directly with France, compromised with Ethiopian demand, and enlisted the support of Arab League, African States, and UN. It was one of Somaliweyn foreign policy's triumph.

 

Yes they are not part of Somalia. Ethiopia claimed Anfar as part of Ethiopia's ethnic collection. France exploited Ethio-Somali dispute and wanted to keep that city-state by citing these 1) its independence will destablize the region 2) Soviets will get hold of its strategic ports. We played the game and delivered Djibouti from the chains of European captivity.

[me]

Originally posted by Baashi:

For those of us who know better realize that this is a Somali civil war. It's about state power and all its trappings. It's about who gets what title in post conflict Somalia. It is rat race.

Baashi why are these men fighting for these titles and posts and why are so many Somalis willing to fight and die for the gains of these men? What do I have to gain from this civil war? what do you have to gain? what do badacase, xanthus, ngonge, general duke and all these other nomads have to gain from this conflict?

[roobleh]

Whoever reads the above pro-union arguments and other similar ones in SOL will understand why Somalilanders do not want to unite with their brethren in Somalia. Any Somalilander who still wants that union back either has no brain or has no choice of his own. But either way, I respect that.

 

 

"My will shall shape the future. Whether I fail or succeed shall be no man's doing but my own. I am the force; I can clear any obstacle before me or I can be lost in the maze. My choice; my responsibility; win or lose, only I hold the key to my destiny." Elaine Maxwell

 

That was just for to enlighten the masses!

[Baashi]

None of the folks in this forum have anything to gain from this tragedy. Most of them come here for fun iyo inay addiga muran ku qaniinsiiyaan.

 

Why Somalis fight? Somalis, apart a minority of livestock traders in Berbera and Bossasso (and their network that spanned from region 5 to gulf), fishing communities in port cities, and farmers adjacent to rivers, worked for the state. Those who had government jobs carried the burden of all their relatives (the latter category is where most Somalis fall). One government employee supported at least 9 mouths.

 

Those who were in power exercised absolute control over the government workers. Nepotism, corruption, abuse, you named people endured a whole lot. The clans who have someone in high places used the clan card to exact justice or in some cases get favors. State power meant everthing!!

 

When two clans fight over grazing rights or over scarce water holes in miyi, the clan who have clan-affiliation with the nearby big shots counted on and infact recieved a backup and won the skirmishes evertime.

 

Majority of the people from that era (todays leaders)know what the state power means. It means job security, it means a safety net, it means wealth (corruption), it means everything. The stakes are high boowe. Ethiopia, Eritrea, Yemen, Egypt are all used by the contestants to get the upper hand.

[Castro]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

People support their administrations, saaxib. Again, here, I prefer to toe the official line and assume that two thirds of Somalis are for the occupation. Still, before we digress into that and argue over a whole new topic, remember the point I’m making. This is all about disproving Mr ME’s unity mumbo-jumbo.

Ok, I concede that how I would like to see things is not how they really are. That list is how I would like to think most Somalis are, against this occupation, and they may be, but probably not in the percentages I'd like to see. The number of variables in Somalia's troubles is immense. From greed to clan politics to imperialism, we have on our hands an alphabet soup of reasons that could start and sustain any conflict.

 

The "union" is dead. If there is another union, it will be a new one of a different kind. Different actors, different terms, different realities on the ground. Anyone longing for the 1960 union is a fool and anyone who wants to convince us Somalilanders have been trying to secede since 1960 must think we're fools.

 

"People support their administrations" indeed and often they follow them against their own better judgment and to the detriment of their well being.

 

Hate it as they may, Ayoub and ME have a lot in common.

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by AYOUB:

Xiinow are you reduced to using SOL village idi*ts' arguments? Somaliland is represented on the Buluugle's star and you should show it the respect it deserves. The 1960 Union was a building block project to something "greater", which as we now know turned out to be a major failure. This project failed big time and I'm out as I came in, simple as. I'll deal with my problem my way, you deal with yours.

Who are you adeer? When you came in, you were not alone, and now to get out, you need the consent of those who were with you! Markii raggu sida odoyadda makhaayadaha jooga u hadlo waa shiddo adeer. Maantoo dhan waxaan ku leeyahay qabiil qurihi qaran ma noqon karo, haddu damco inuu noqdona kuwa kalana waa ku dayyaanayaan, kamana celin kayarsid...but you seem to be ignoring it for your own peril!

[Fabregas]

Quote:toe the official line and assume that two thirds of Somalis are for the occupation.

 

Which poll told you that?

[roobleh]

It just amuses me to see such argument that "if Somalia is divisible so is Somaliland!" It is a cheap argument for a pro-union activist who believes that Somali union is 'sacred', to come back and suggest that Somaliland is divisible. Keep talking about your unionist arguments but leave Somaliland alone. Whether parts of Somaliland are happy or not should not concern you. We will deal with it peacefully Insha Allah.

 

This kind of argument is as silly as the argument of the man who wanted to share his pair of shoes with another man. When the man refused, he said, "give me your shoes then." I know it is a terrible example, but so does the pro-union argument.

 

We do not have time to entertain why Somalis have to fight or who is with Ethio or against or whatever problems you guys have, except pray for you. We are busy building and strenthening our institutions. We know what Ethio is interested to do: divide Somalia into another three small different countries. You guys invited Ethiopian army into Somalia to score a point, and do not tell me you did not know Ethio never wanted Somalia that was united.

[me]

Originally posted by Castro:

Hate it as they may, Ayoub and ME have a lot in common.

Explain Castro. I am curious. What do I and this heathen have in common other then that we are both Somali.

[Ana_Juwa2]

We do not have time to entertain why Somalis have to fight or who is with Ethio or against or whatever problems you guys have, except pray for you. We are busy building and strenthening our institutions. We know what Ethio is interested to do: divide Somalia into another three small different countries. You guys invited Ethiopian army into Somalia to score a point, and do not tell me you did not know Ethio never wanted Somalia that was united.

Well said.

 

At least someone can be honest about his position and explain themselves.

 

Somaliland whether it acheives International recognition or not right now! Is all but a Fully functioning Country. The same cannot be said of the south of course, but with the ethopian sposnered warlords and their consistent interefrence in the post state colapse of 1991 thats not a supprise either.

 

What is supprising is the extent to which some somali's as individuals will blindly follow and propagate a cause based purely on their tribal allegiance to it and nothing more.

 

Southern somalia had been invaded long before the TFG for its own benefit "invited them in", they inturn used this and their forces to benefit themselves from this. Fully ignoring the long-term damage they would do to the prospect of the south enjoying peace and stability again.

 

The poster i have quoted quite rightly highlights this is only to stop any likely hood of the south returning to peace and order.

[Castro]

Originally posted by me:

quote:Originally posted by Castro:

Hate it as they may, Ayoub and ME have a lot in common.

Explain Castro. I am curious. What do I and this heathen have in common other then that we are both Somali.

You're both assuming, wrongly I believe, that unity is a panacea for your problems. You wish Somalis would be united so they would deter any invading force and sort their internal problems. He, on the other hand, wishes Somaliland would get the recognition it so desperately needs but one which it had staked on colonial borders that are in dispute. If that dispute is resolved through a "union" (on a smaller scale in comparison) between the disputing clans, he believes he's well on his way to recognition.

 

Same pipe dream, different scale.

[Sophist]

On Somalinimo;

 

Somalinimo existed prior to the conception of the Somali state and before the bloody Brits and Italian came to our land; and it shall continue to exist by the barrell of the gun if the need be; our communal survival depends on it. Many will die for it and by God it is a noble reality and indeed worth dying for.

 

Those amongst us who are blinded by tribal qusacbalaat will either come to their senses or they will meet their fate at the sharp sword of Somalinimo. The journey is long but by God there are millions who are ready to die for it (if not we* will direct our efforts to awaken the masses to the cancererous ilness that has been eating them away; it might take a while but we shall get there).

 

Disclaimer

 

This is not an official line of the current government neither is it a concept entertained by an organised group ready to rekindle the fire of nationalism in our country; it is indeed an observation by a Somali citizen who is a keen reader of our people's history.

 

*we-- meaning those of us who take this reality seriously and will work towards it passionately.

[xiinfaniin]

Sophist, the derwiish has spoken wallee!