Somalinimo-on-steroids

[RedSea]

Originally posted by me:

 

 

So there are two options left.

 

1. a united Somalia and Somalis fighting together against the Ethiopians.

2. the status quo and waiting for the Ethiopian tanks to reach the North.

 

 

The choice is yours.

There you are wrong again. You could have Somaliland deciding its ways and Somalia having its ways also, however at same time be one people who have one common enemy to tackle (Ethiopia), one common interest (to prosper and live peacefull side by side) in the East Africa. This is a unity through the heart. Somaliland and Somalia can display different types of flags, different currency, yet can sign a treaty to protect and watch out for the other, this would also extend to Djabuti. It's sort of like somali aliance vs. the enemy of each. Three or more seperate entities which doesn't require a passport for any Somali individual to go from one to the other.

 

This way no one would be disatisfied. A good solution at the moment.

[Fabregas]

That was may take and hundreds of other Somalis who witnessed a rather large movement of Ethiopian troops across the Somali border, as soon as the anti terror alliance was defeated. The "official" line from the T.F.G was that there were no Ethiopian troops, because they knew they didn't have the constitutional capability to "invite" another entity. People also seem to be forgeting that Ethiopia is actually and officialy at war, remember their parliament authorised action against the union of Islamic Courts, who had apparently "attacked" Ethiopia. Although the U.K ambassador know seems to have changed his mind, he reckons " Somalis asked them to save them from a brutal subclan". Anway, as you say this is neither here or there. Plus they are in Somalia anyway, so how or what brought them there is irrelevant.

[RedSea]

[QB] Originally posted by Xiinfaniin

 

The other day I listened one of my intellectual heroes dismantle quite easily and with a marked civility about this notion of independence. His points were easy yet the man who was debating him could not handle it. Check Prof. Samatar’s discussion with Siilanyo.

Where can I find this debate Xiin?

 

adeero xiin

 

Shall we poke our eyes out?

 

Adeer, if Somalilanders say they dont' any part of second unity, then what debate lies here that we need to know. It's fact majority of somalilanders are pro seccesion, yes I am fully confident that if referendum was taken, that majority would be for it. I hope you think deeper and get hold of grasp of what is at stake here. You probably know the outcome of when one is denied their desires and wants.

 

You being an individual from another region of Somalia, may not deny or even stand on the way of another from another region who wants to do things according to him/her way. Yes that includes following the international guidlines.

 

If denied, disaster follows.

 

Maybe I need to show you few clips from the protest in Hargeysa, Burco, Boroma, berbera, ceerigabo, when the PM of the puppet regime stated that he was in charge of Somaliland. You should have seen the reactions from the people,their voices are loud and perfectly clear, no need to rely on two individuals debating about it, the people want it to happen.

[NGONGE]

Geel jire and Castro,

 

Methinks you choose to ignore the point I made! The point, again, is that two thirds of Somalis don't mind the 'occupation'. This, as I said and before you decided to change the subject, does not support Mr ME's argument for UNITY.

 

Try to keep up, boys.

[Castro]

^^^^ There are five, and only five, possible positions anyone can hold on this occupation:

 

1) Reject it and pick up arms against it.

2) Reject it and either speak up against it or keep the rejection in their heart.

3) Support it and speak up in favor or keep the support in their heart

4) Support it and actively fight alongside it

5) Be indifferent.

 

Now, I've no idea how you, or anyone else, could come up with this 'two thirds' figure but I will tell you this, the bulk of Somalis fall in category 2). A small minority is in category 1) and an even smaller number is in categories 4) and 5).

 

That's how I see it. That many Somalis are incapable of doing something about the occupation does not in any way mean they support it. Ask any occupied peoples and they'll tell you they're against their occupation except, of course, those who stand to gain from the occupation.

 

So, now that you made your point, what evidence will you bring forth in its support?

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar:

quote:Mainly: how can we be reassured Islam will not be misused like Somaalinimo was misused?

Haye noo sheeg, who misused Soomaalinimo?

 

Obviously Somalis. But more to the point, phony "politicians" who gave mealy-mouthed platitudes to Somalinimo and other high-flown slogans appealing to our (somali people) collective Somali identity. All the while pilfering the nation's meager resources and destroying public trust in the process. The brunt of the blame for this must go to none other than S. Barre regime, for his regime brought about this dire straits Somalis are wallowing in today. If anyone else besides Barre regime deserves blame it would have to be the corrupt but democractic (hence preferable) government from the days before Barre. Between the two saw the death of united Somalia. I let other groups (rebel movements) off the hook for the simple reason they were reaction to the injustices committed in the name of Somalinimo. Besides there were no SNM, USC, SPM, SSDF and so on before 1969, so we can confidently say who and/or what produced them.

 

 

which is purely about -- and it does not require any layer aad ka qaadid -- walaaltinimo and iskaashi iyo midnimo?

 

 

My comments were not meant as a jibe against you or other genuine believers in Somalinimo. It was generally directed at Somali history from mid-60s until 1991 where sucessive "political" leaders appealed to Somalis out of Somalinimo only to turn around and betray them. That period and the failures of Somali "political" leaders is what spawned, inter alia, the current disenchantment with the whole concept of Somalinimo. We are here for a reason and there's no effect without a cause. My arguement is the current predicaments confronting us as a people have deep underlying causes, among them the flagrant misuse and abuse of public trust by "political" leaders which manifested itself in injustices, corruption, repression, nepotism etc and with that witnessed the death of Somalinimo (in whatever form it existed). I'm afraid the old adage applies here: once bitten, twice shy!

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Why don’t you articulate what is sham about ‘Somalinimo’ or false about unity based on the territorial integrity of Somalia?

Do you have to be holding a Somali passport and a buluugle-waver to be a member of "somalinimo" club? If the answer is "YES" then rule me and my cousins in Djibouti and Jigjiga out of this bogus club of yours. If the answer is "NO", why the hell should I care so much for a "unity based on the territorial integrity of Somalia" when it's not necessary for "Somalinimo" anyway? If you say "MAYBE, MAYBE NOT" you win. The absurdity of it all!!

 

Mr. Me, I see you've decided it's convenient enough to rejoin this thread again.

[xiinfaniin]

^^^Before I rule you and your cousins out lets first reason here, shall we yaa Ayoub! Should Somaliland be fortunate enough, as many hope here, and get the recognition it so greatly desires as an independent state with all of its original borders intact, would good Ayoub accept as a rational choice if the good people of Borama so determinedly decide to secede from the just borne state? Would he afford the same freedom to the good people of Burco? What about Sool and Sanaag? Where would he stop? Would that hypothetical secession diminish the essence of ‘Somaliland-nimo’? Or more boldly, does Ayoub Sheekh see any value to the territorial integrity of Somaliland? Does he count it as a one of basic component of the character of his yet-to-be-born state? If affirmative, what is the thing that which would give Somaliland a territorial cohesion?

 

These are practical questions saaxiib, and unless one is willing to consider the predictable ramifications of balkanizing what’s left of this broken nation and stripping it the most visible pillar of its structure, reason with all its magic-like powers ,Ayoubow, sadly remains a very problematic exercise to take on. This is not questioning one’s intents and religious convictions. This is, (the issue of separatism and secession is), a weak political tool to divide us, and it will only serve the interests of our regional enemies, namely Ethiopia!

[AYOUB]

Xiinow are you reduced to using SOL village idi*ts' arguments? Somaliland is represented on the Buluugle's star and you should show it the respect it deserves. The 1960 Union was a building block project to something "greater", which as we now know turned out to be a major failure. This project failed big time and I'm out as I came in, simple as. I'll deal with my problem my way, you deal with yours.

[me]

Originally posted by Castro:

^^^^ There are five, and only five, possible positions anyone can hold on this occupation:

 

1) Reject it and pick up arms against it.

2) Reject it and either speak up against it or keep the rejection in their heart.

3) Support it and speak up in favor or keep the support in their heart

4) Support it and actively fight alongside it

5) Be indifferent.

 

Now, I've no idea how you, or anyone else, could come up with this 'two thirds' figure but I will tell you this, the bulk of Somalis fall in category 2). A small minority is in category 1) and an even smaller number is in categories 4) and 5).

 

That's how I see it. That many Somalis are incapable of doing something about the occupation does not in any way mean they support it. Ask any occupied peoples and they'll tell you they're against their occupation except, of course, those who stand to gain from the occupation.

 

So, now that you made your point, what evidence will you bring forth in its support?

Castro is right on this issue, the trick is how can the second group be turned into active supporters of the resistance. The resistance whether nationalist or islamist needs to get this group on their side. Those that support divisions whether they call themselves TFG, Somaliland or Puntland will do anything they can to keep our people divided with their clannism. After 16 years of civil war, by now we know that the TFG, Somaliland, Puntland and all the other warlords are not the solution, they are the problem. Ask yourself how can group two be changed into active supporters of the resistance? They are the sillent majority, they are the ones that have condoned the everything that has happened so far with their sillence. I say its time to confront them with the truth. Think outside the clan box!

[AYOUB]

^^ Adeer what number are you? (warning: that was a trick question coz Red and Xanthus might dig up somethig that leaves egg on one's face)

 

Don't quit this thead once again will you?

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by Castro:

^^^^ There are five, and only five, possible positions anyone can hold on this occupation:

 

1) Reject it and pick up arms against it.

2) Reject it and either speak up against it or keep the rejection in their heart.

3) Support it and speak up in favor or keep the support in their heart

4) Support it and actively fight alongside it

5) Be indifferent.

 

Now, I've no idea how you, or anyone else, could come up with this 'two thirds' figure but I will tell you this, the bulk of Somalis fall in category 2). A small minority is in category 1) and an even smaller number is in categories 4) and 5).

 

That's how I see it. That many Somalis are incapable of doing something about the occupation does not in any way mean they support it. Ask any occupied peoples and they'll tell you they're against their occupation except, of course, those who stand to gain from the occupation.

 

So, now that you made your point, what evidence will you bring forth in its support?

How about using your own words?

 

And the point you make on the resistance being strictly in Xamar or the south, well that is a well made point. Except it misses the larger point namely Puntland and Somaliland and how comfortable they are in Ethiopian pockets. The "South" is the last remaining land with "free" Somalis.

People support their administrations, saaxib. Again, here, I prefer to toe the official line and assume that two thirds of Somalis are for the occupation. Still, before we digress into that and argue over a whole new topic, remember the point I’m making. This is all about disproving Mr ME’s unity mumbo-jumbo.

Ayub above is a perfect example of that. He cares for the plight of his fellow Somalis in the south but not enough to unite with them. It’s a fact. No need to clutch at straws there. Seek a new concept and rallying cry.

[Jamster]

Xiinoow the dreamy helluciations of our brethens in the triangle is nothing new; they happily been dreaming of their "own" state for more than a decade but to no avail. The blethering majority (including our resident joker NG) are brainwashed to the bone by men who are menatally subordinate to them. Tall tales of reernimo has become the idiology they hold dear and their historical reference is written in 1988. Thusly, the whole thing of Somalinimo is becoming an alien to them--it is something that has nothing to do with their triangle.

 

I don't comprehend what makes these guys think that SOOL, SANAAG AND HAWD citizens who are now have of the building bollock of Puntland and who led the resistance against the brits join dismembering the country. What makes the current sons of those then traitors to convince peacefully the sons of Dervishes What an insult to the memories all those heroes who died protecting the dignity of our people?

 

Daraawiishta Hanoolaato.

 

Soomalinimo is what holds us together if this fails then we shall all go back to what we know best and that Qabyaaladism. Each clan being their own little kingdom; Hail the new King AROMANCER; the land of the Aroma.

 

If not the dream must go on boys.

[NGONGE]

^^ Calm down saaxib you're chasing your own tail there by trying to take the moral high ground, son of dervish

[Ibtisam]

Thusly, the whole thing of Somalinimo is becoming an alien to them--it is something that has nothing to do with their triangle.

lol this made me laugh!, hayee, I guess everyone but the triangle has embraced "Somalinimo" and honored it damn that tear away Triangle! :rolleyes:

 

Soomalinimo is what holds us together

come again? who or what do you see that it is still being held together by "Somalinimo"??

 

if

this fails then we shall all go back to what we know best and that Qabyaaladism.

What do you mean if & go back to?? Somali's never left qabyaalad, and soomalinimo failed before it even took off. News flash

 

Try again sugar, way off mark!