Somalinimo-on-steroids

[xiinfaniin]

^^You are doing it agian yaa Baruud. Ninkii ku mucaaradaba waa calooshiis u shaqayste soo maaha...i am sure you will throw the same charge if Siilaanyo comes out against Somaliland's bid to secede...

[Castro]

Originally posted by Baruud:

You may not find it on a paper written before 1991 that Somaliland was going to succeed, it has always been a secret between the SNM ranks. That being said, as Suldaanka said the disafication about the union from Somalilanders was clear from the get go, when the South took both posts, the Presidency and PM spot, when the deal was, that the south should have taken the Presidency and Somaliland, the Prime minister spot. It didn't happen, disafications started from that point on. And many somalilanders wanted to get out of the union.

Keeping something a secret only to hijack the agenda later reeks of a conspiracy led by a few elitist individuals (not unlike the neocon agenda for Iraq) and is hardly a defense for the legitimacy of Somaliland. Be careful what you write on here.

 

And I think you mean 'secede' not succeed. The latter, no one is disputing. Somaliland, sans the secession, is a shining example for all Somalis everywhere.

[RedSea]

Originally posted by Xanthus:

Ngong^^^^Hmmm interesting way of looking at things

heck no. He presented Somaliland as '***** yar' darn it.

 

NG, couldnt' you find a better example. Ilahow ha nacadaabin.

[Fabregas]

as Suldaanka said the disafication about the union from Somalilanders was clear from the get go, when the South took both posts, the Presidency and PM spot,

 

 

Are you saying certain clans were angry? because as i have said before there was never a group of people called "Somalilanders" at that time.

[RedSea]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

^^You are doing it agian yaa Baruud. Ninkii ku mucaaradab waa calooshiis u shaqayste soo maaha...i am sure you will throw the sam charge if Siilaanyo comes out against Somaliland's bid to secede...

Xiin,

 

He didn't come out against the case of Somaliland because he believed it was a mistake , but because he couldn't except the fact that Igal was chosen over him, offcourse he being former chairman of the SNM oo kaadidiisa usoo cabay. .

 

Secondly, if he were really for union, he would have came out against it during the Burco conference, he was the chairman for the love of God of the whole movement.

 

His case was, since I didn't get things role my way, I shall deny Igal and the rest their way. That is not a believer, that is an oppurtunist.

 

fact: He did try to do that, though aabhihii Siyaasada Igal was able to shake off of it. He and other leaders of the two of the largest sub clans in Somaliland tried to pit sub clan against each other, a major wars broke out in Hargeysa and Burco, Tuur and others lost it as reslut and Igal suceeded in not only staying in power but was also elected for yet another term. Sorry but Tuur was outplayed in the political game big time.

[RedSea]

Originally posted by Geel_Jire12

 

Are you saying certain clans were angry? because as i have said before there was never a group of people called "Somalilanders" at that time.

Somalilanders of Present day in 47 years ago.

[xiinfaniin]

Bad case = Baaruud?

 

Ma anaan garan dhega adaygaaga .

[Faarax-Brawn]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

^^Castrow, one of the reasons I jump on Somaliland threads is because I sensed some intellectual fascism when it comes asking hard questions about the legitimacy, and in your case, genesis of secessionism. The other day I listened one of my intellectual heroes dismantle quite easily and with a marked civility about this notion of independence. His points were easy yet the man who was debating him could not handle it. Check Prof. Samatar’s discussion with Siilanyo. Si xalaala weli loogam niqaashin in Somalilnad go’do iyo inkale…ninkii ka horyimaadaba waxaa la oronayaa car Hargeysa imow waan ku xiraynaa ama waa lagu dilayyaa.

It was either to participate in a civil war or declare indepedence,and i think the leadership of JSL went for the "better" option at that time.

Its been 16years and I am pretty sure the people of JSL do not want to be a part of a Union anymore.

 

My question for you guys is,what will a Legitimate Govt of Somalia do in the event that a referendum is carried out and the people overwhelmingly ask for indepedendence? Can they force JSL to stay in a union they dont want to be a part of? If they do,what will be the consequences? Another War? What are the benefits of having JSL in this union anyway?

[RedSea]

Originally posted by Castro:

Keeping something a secret only to hijack the agenda later reeks of a conspiracy led by a few elitist individuals (not unlike the neocon agenda for Iraq) and is hardly a defense for the legitimacy of Somaliland. Be careful what you write on here.

Let us get one thing perfectly clear first. SNM was freedom fighting force, there is no question about that. They didn't simply decided to fight so they could seceed from the rest, though that was always in contention. The reason I said you won't find it written anywhere is that because when you are fighting a war, you need all the help you can get. For that reason, if SNM said, they were fighting against oppression and then for secession, heck they would have difficult time getting support from other somalis in other areas.

 

Secondly, what does it tell you, when a large group of people welcome the an idea, like seccesion without a hesitation. The people are/were in full support of seccesion, else it wouldn't have been so popular without them.

 

A good example would be mr. Tuur, whom 'denounce' what he and other started, yet the steamroller kept rolling along even without him, largely due to the support of the people which overshadowed. That would tackle and stop any doubt that the people were not in support of this on its tracks.

 

 

 

And I think you mean 'secede' not succeed. The latter, no one is disputing. Somaliland, sans the secession, is a shining example for all Somalis everywhere.

Yes it is. Only if some people like mr. me could get it, things would have been alot better. Or as mr. me says, he would like to see Somaliland at war, so that the dream of seccesion would evoprate, ladies and gents, that is Somaliwayne unionist and proud patriot.

[RedSea]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Bad case = Baaruud?

 

Ma anaan garan dhega adaygaaga

.

Yes it's me, easy to spot am I not?

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by Baruud:

quote:Originally posted by Xanthus:

Ngong^^^^Hmmm interesting way of looking at things

heck no. He presented Somaliland as '***** yar' darn it.

 

NG, couldnt' you find a better example. Ilahow ha nacadaabin.

The point is (despite what Castro says) that it really does not matter. I can understand why Xiin, Castro and even myself would talk about this topic but, why are you taking part? You already think Somaliland is an independent nation! Must you always try to justify it then?

[Castro]

^^^^ Since the debate is not going on where it matters most, in Somaliland, you're right, it doesn't matter what we say on this forum.

 

Originally posted by Baruud:

Secondly, what does it tell you, when a large group of people welcome the an idea, like seccesion without a hesitation. The people are/were in full support of seccesion, else it wouldn't have been so popular without them.

I hate to use the neocon-Iraq example again but it fits very well in this case. You must know that the support for the war in the US, well after many of the reasons given for it were discredited, remained very high. In other words, populations are easily manipulated in the short term for the detriment of their own well being. Somalilanders, the people, are no different. All you need is to have a boogey man to scare them with and they follow you like sheep. It works every time and everywhere.

[RedSea]

Originally posted by Caamir:

 

This is the meaning of Genocide

the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

Okay: So how would you explain, the Jazeera massacre of which almost all of them were elite educaters, bussiness men, etc.. from the same clan?

 

 

Siyad Bare's regime went after rebels who were agents of social disorder and the government at the time treated ith as potential and actual dangers to the social order.

Most of the Somali bombers refused to bombard their own people which they were trained and equiped to defend. In fact, when the people fled Hargeysa in 1988, the first area of displaced was onto the North eastern side of the city, namely near the 'Naaso Hablood' mountains aka twin mountains. The planes actually went after them and started bombing them in those camps as well. I don't think there were rebels there at all.

 

 

n the other hand, I have always had disagreement with those who treated the outcome of former SNM vs the government war as genocide. In fact, it was SNM that committed genocide against civilians of Sool and Sanaag because it intentionally and deliberately massacred civilians on the countryside and even captured towns and villages.

This is crazy. For SNM to commit a genocide against reer Sool and Sanag would have to be done in very quick fashion. Because peace was declared just as soon as Barre government callapsed in 1991. Do you have documents to support your claim.

 

The funny thing is you said SNM commited A GENOCIDE against reer Sool and Sanaag, yet what Barre did wasn't a genocide. lol Offcourse the SNM did kill, they were no saints at all.

 

PS. what do you really know Caamir, you think the killings done by the Xabashis TODAY are just in defense of a nation, how would you explain that to us as well?

[RedSea]

NG,

 

So you are saying let these catz run the show and we somalilanders sit on the sideliness, are you out of your mind?

 

Offcourse, I will always get my points across else, the nature of Somalis will kick in that if someone stays silent, they must not have an answer for anything.

 

It's a public forum after all, to exchange views is what we are here for.

 

NG, since you put it that way, Why don't I put you on the spot. Are you pro union or pro Somaliland aka 'seccesionists'?

 

Chew on that.

[RedSea]

Castro,

 

That is terrbile example, because the U.S citizens were not oppressed nor where they freed from oppressing regime, Somalilanders actaully experience such state of fear.