Somalinimo-on-steroids

[RedSea]

Farax brown, waryaa anigu, I would be in jail now, if I ever chewed. lol

 

Paragon, aha that should explain it. It's clear and evident which one of us becomes an Albert Einstien. I am struggling here with my ESL level English, while aad balaayo aan lagaranayn oo marmarka qaar dictionary uraadsado aad daadinaysid. So it's you who lives in London (center of jaad) and the smarter one here.

 

all in all, all these time on SOL, I was wondering why you are so smart, ileen you are using performance inhance drug( qaad). balo once again. lol

[xiinfaniin]

Oodweyne would have easier time dismissing all of us as a peculiar mixture of yesterday’s defeated lot, today’s coward cynics, and utterly unashamed, shameless, and barefaced old man followers .

 

 

where is he these days? i wonder !

[Elysian]

Originally posted by Xiinfaniin

 

The other day I listened one of my intellectual heroes dismantle quite easily and with a marked civility about this notion of independence. His points were easy yet the man who was debating him could not handle it. Check Prof. Samatar’s discussion with Siilanyo.

Where can I find this debate Xiin?

[Warmoog]

This and the related topic-starter were both enjoyable reads. Rather than looking it as just a critique of the views of a particular nomad, though, I think Kashafa's line of reasoning can be read in very general terms as an indictment of the thought, pretensions, and typically hollow rhetoric of many people: namely, the types I -- as one who generally considers nationalism a false concept -- tend to view as chest-beating ideologues and desktop nationalists. What I like most about the brother's argument is the fact that it seems to be fueled by a serious consideration of identity politics, which, needless to say, is a very relevant subject in this day and age. It seems to me as though the underlying issue in the topic-starter is, what are we going to emphasize, elevate, and uphold as the primary marker of our collective identity? Religion or ethnicity? From this springs the big question of what our politics should henceforth be based upon. Some of us (myself included) have a problem with the ideas of people who argue that we should glorify, and in turn base our politics on, something other than Islam. In any case, I hope that nomads either continue to engage in a general, open discussion of identity politics here or, as might be deemed more appropriate, in a new thread. There is a lot to talk about.

 

By the way, harping on and on about Somaliland or its secession movement -- this new internal nationalism -- distracts us from what we really need to be doing, which is critically analyzing and reckoning with the falsity of all nationalisms.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Very interesting take on the issue at hand.

 

Why don’t you articulate what is sham about ‘Somalinimo’ or false about unity based on the territorial integrity of Somalia? I would appreciate if you could present a coherent argument that deems defending Somali unity as mere ‘desktop nationalism’!

 

Try it yaa Warmoog!

[NGONGE]

Heh. I thought I’ve made my position clear long ago. I’m indeed a fence sitter. However, I do not profess to be your typical harmless, meek kind of fence sitter. When push comes to shove I unashamedly admit that I’m a glory-hunter. My two flags remain under my bed and I await to see who emerges victorious from this national tussle.

 

Of course, in times of peace I can afford to take this position and bide my time. For me, and without that strong emotional links to either cause it would be foolish to choose one side over the other (Unity or Somaliland). The reasons for the existence of Somaliland have never been convincing enough for me to bring out that entity’s flag from under my bed. Should they get the recognition, I’ll be the first to wave that flag. It is really is as simple as that. On the other hand, the unity of Somalia, in my humble opinion, is also a pipe dream. However, opinions can be wrong and should Mr Yusuf (or anyone else for that matter) manage to unite that nation and reconcile all sides, then my blue flag will also come out from under my bed faster than an Ethiopian tank descending on Mogadishu!

 

Still, this is not about MY position on this affair. This is about simple logic. If you BELIEVE in Somaliland and consider it to be a sovereign, independent nation then you really should not bother engaging on arguments justifying the existence of that nation. To do so is to give such arguments substance and confirm that there is room for negotiation. By all means, defend your nation, argue over border disputes and talk about differences with Somalia. But once you go down the road of justifying the existence of Somaliland, you prove that you actually don’t understand the meaning of an independent nation.

 

Furthermore, the UNITY argument at this particular point in time is absurd and duplicitous. The hatred and mistrust in Somalia runs deeper than one clan against another. It goes all the way down to sub-sub-sub clan levels. Alliances and united fronts are only formed when such clans (and sub clans) perceive a common threat and are forced to work together (Somaliland is a case in point). To ignore all of that and reduce the argument to the superficial level of Somalnimo and Islamnimo alone is both ignorant and dishonest.

 

Finally, I’d just like to agree with Xiin and concede that at a time of war my loyalty will indeed be on the side of Somaliland. Alas, I doubt that such straightforward logic will be easy to understand for many people on here.

[Castro]

^^^^ You really didn't have to do this.

 

Originally posted by NGONGE:

Still, this is not about MY position on this affair. This is about simple logic. If you BELIEVE in Somaliland and consider it to be a sovereign, independent nation then you really should not bother engaging on arguments justifying the existence of that nation. To do so is to give such arguments substance and confirm that there is room for negotiation.

What if an argument defies "simple logic"? Should it still be entertained?

 

These are rhetorical questions awoowe.

[N.O.R.F]

Ngonge

 

My two flags remain under my bed

One of those flags should not be under your bed for the simple reason it has the kalima written on it. Stick it up on the sitting room wall saxib

 

I'm sure you get plenty of stick for your fence sitting already

 

Edit

 

ps i'm sure there are plans to go to the 18th May events

[me]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

^^Very interesting take on the issue at hand.

 

Why don’t you articulate what is sham about ‘Somalinimo’ or false about unity based on the territorial integrity of Somalia? I would appreciate if you could present a coherent argument that deems defending Somali unity as mere ‘desktop nationalism’!

 

Try it yaa Warmoog!

I can't wait to see how Warmoog puts his case forward.

[N.O.R.F]

Without reading most of the thread (which looks like another blame it all on Somaliland thread), let me generalise my notion of Somalinimo and its failures.

 

Granted Somalinimo/unity/togetherness has been a noble and much desired goal by Somalis for a long time. The most recent pursuers of Somalinimo being non other than the people of Somaliland who were the driving force behind the formation of the union (how easily some forget). From the highs of those early days to the lows of foreign occupation, massacres and humanitarian crisis in the space of 47 years is very sad by anyone’s standards.

 

Somalinimo had been brushed under the carpet for some time. Not many really cared for it nor understood it as it became apparent that it was hijacked by qabil. So much so that many remained loyal to the clan and the lines of communication with other clans became blurry if there was any contact at all.

 

By the 1980s Somalinimo was already dead. Those who had grand dreams in the 1950s and early 60s were being ignored and their thoughts restricted. Anyone who spoke out was ‘dealt with’. Intellects were arrested. The economy was moved to one particular region/area. Those who moved abroad and worked were arrested on their return (like my uncle Allah Yarxamu). But who cared right? We were Somalis living in Somalia when it was one of the most powerful African nations who nearly destroyed Ethiopia. Somalinimo was not important at that time. Whatever the government did was for the security of the country. WHERE WAS SOMALINIMO THEN?

 

The product of this was the SNM. Like them or not, this was the movement responsible for waking people up to smell the coffee. No more they said and the rest is history. This coupled with what followed in the south was as a result of neglecting what those old men you see around today dreamt of. Neglect by all (not blaming anyone specifically here).

 

Today we have a fractured former union with the South, Puntland and Somaliland.

 

Recently, there has been a massacre in one part, the refusal for people from a certain clan to set foot in another part and the acceptance of those refused in the third part. There is and has been in-fighting between sub-clans of the same clan in one, in-fighting between the sub-clans of the same clan in two of those areas and no in-fighting between sub-clans of the same majority clan in the third part. The recent fighting in Dhahar should never have occurred. They are all responsible for handing over sheikhs to Ethiopia/US. An uncle of mine was recently killed (Allah Yarxamu) in one part recently for simply being in the wrong region. While many nomads have passed through Hargaisa without any problems regardless of their clan. His killers are yet to be arrested. Another was killed trying to defend against invaders (Allah yarxamu). My cousin (a Puntlander) refused to fight on the side of the TFG (rageedi). The latter are prime examples of what I would term as ‘Somalinimo’. The former I would describe as one region having more Somalinimo than what people give them credit for regardless of their wanted separation. Never the less, pointing the finger at Somaliland will continue I’m sure. All Somali problems stem from Somaliland regardless of Somalinimo not being present pre-civil war.

 

No questions will be answered. If you wish to counter any of my points you will need to 'write'.

[Ibtisam]

Ngonge

 

 

quote:

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My two flags remain under my bed

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One of those flags should not be under your bed for the simple reason it has the kalima written on it. Stick it up on the sitting room wall saxib

 

I'm sure you get plenty of stick for your fence sitting already

 

ps i'm sure there are plans to go to the 18th May events

Lool North So that is how you get people to take out the flag! lol

 

All Somali problems stem from Somaliland regardless of Somalinimo not being present pre-civil war

Come again?

 

 

Ngonge: an opportunist then eh

[N.O.R.F]

All Somali problems stem from Somaliland regardless of Somalinimo not being present pre-civil war

Thats the view of some people who are opposed to SL. They use Somalinimo to call you back into the union but didnt use Somalinimo when it was needed back in the late 80s! They just sat and watched,,,,,

 

Edit

 

ps lets just say i know Ngonge in real life and the fence sitting thing is not him in real life. You should him on May 18th every year decked out in green, white and red

[Ibtisam]

^^^Okay, I get it now sorry it is still early morning lol

 

Edit:

lool full decks. But What does he do July 15th, start putting the deck away and change clothes. I guess any excuse for a party

[NGONGE]

Stop spreading evil rumours, North. I'm hoping Mr Yusuf gives me an ambassadorship to Peru.

 

ps

I only went to the 18th May thing in 2004 (When they were collecting money to build that hospital in Burco). I have not been since and doubt if I will. It's full of teenagers and troublemakers.

[N.O.R.F]

^^I'm sure the North Stars guys give you a hard time. Got their email last week. Cerigaabo hospital this year i think.

 

Edit

 

I think you would make a fine ambassador. I would love to hear the interviews