Somalinimo-on-steroids

[AYOUB]

Can a djibouti national have this Somalinimo?

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Mainly: how can we be reassured Islam will not be misused like Somaalinimo was misused?

Haye noo sheeg, who misused Soomaalinimo? Oh, no, don't tell me the likes of Frail Stooge of Xabashadda do. They have nothing to do with Soomaalinimo, as I had wrote previously.

 

So, who else do you have in mind that have 'misused' Soomaalinimo, which is purely about -- and it does not require any layer aad ka qaadid -- walaaltinimo and iskaashi iyo midnimo?

 

Of course they are some individuals who ku takarafalay magaceena Soomaali, in order to gain maal ama jago. Kuwaas waa qabqabliyaasha, the likes of the Stooge, Max'ed Dheere, Indhamadoowe.

 

Which reminds me to this little true episode that happened in Qoryooleey in early 1991.

 

USC ["United Soomaali Congress"] ayaa qabsatay degmadaas, oo dad ayaa alalaas usoo baxay markee soo galeen. Yar kamid ahaa reer Qoryooleey oo deganaa isla degmadda ka qeybgalay 'alalaaska.'

 

Unfortunately, dad ayaa isla markiiba jaajuusay, and moooryaan militias u dagaalamaaye USC soo qabteen that innocent man oo xataa u 'cheer' gareynaaye, simply because he belonged a wrong clan. Markii lasoo qabtay ayaa la weydiiye maxaa u dabaaldageysaa? [Read: You don't belong the same clan as we do.]

 

The innocent man's answer? "So ereyga 'USC' Soomaali kuma jiro, oo anigana Soomaali ma'ihi?"

 

Saas ayee ku daayeen, oo caqliweynaantiisa la yaabeen. People like those militias and their leaders magac Soomaali ku qaraaban jireen, exploited in the name of Soomaali. Iyaga kalina kuma koobna oo any so-called jabhad that had the "S" word in it abused, squandered, even desecrated Soomaalinimo, from left to right. I agree on this one that they perverted the ideas of Soomaalinimo.

 

However, Soomaali badan ayaa jiro u taagan Soomaalinimo, oo ka daacad ah.

[Fabregas]

@lollll @Ngone, you made me laugh, attacking a man outside a masjid ha ha lollll

 

Socod Badane has a valid point. When the I.C.U came to power many Somalis saw them as the X clan wadaado.Also all the sub clans started competing and made their own maxkamado. Remember how many maxkamado started opening up in Muqdisho. This was the same case with Sayid Mohamed, the reason his movement failed was because of the Somali subclan system. Again they saw him as the O clan wadaad. The British, Italians and Ethiopia have found out this tool(sub clan system) to divide Somalis. Even when we tried Socialism/Marxism it was scuppered by the clan system and the regime using Somali clans against one another.

[Suldaanka]

There's little that is distinct about Somaliland. Not the people, the culture, the suffering or even the ideology. They (the elites, elders, or whatever you want to call them) just took it to another level. You may have seen this but recently, I tried to find out when 'secession' first came into the lexicon and it seems the whole idea was cooked up in a short period of time then sold to the populace. At the time, conditions were ripe, I believe, for the people to accept it and those who didn't decided fighting it wasn't really worth the trouble given the state of the rest of the nation.

 

Fidelow, 1991 might have been the year that Somaliland's independence was declared. But the feeling that the union was a mistake in the first place was always there since its inception in 1960.

 

You need to dig a little further.

[Fabregas]

Suldaanka, there was no absolutely no such thing ad a group of people calling themselves Somalilanders before 1991. Unless you want to tell us that the colonial protectorate of Somaliland and the current day Somaliland are the same thing. Furthermore, how could the bad feelings towards the union have been there in the 1960s, when Somaliland wasn't independent to begin with? And please don't say Somaliland was an independent country for 4 days as some do. The British had different deals with all the subclans which can historically be verified. The modern day Somaliland was born out of a clan rebellion by the S.N.M.Just like there was other clan rebellion against the government. After this the peace process brought in other clans into the process. But what i have never understood is, who intiated the idea that new Somaliland should have the same borders as the one adminstrated by the British colonialists?

[Castro]

Still working on it Suldaanow. Do you dispute anything I said up there or did it just bring a smile to your face?

 

1991 might have been the year that Somaliland's independence was declared

How long was it in the pipeline then Suldaanow? In other words, was the declaration a spontaneous knee-jerk reaction to some event or series of events? Why had no one ever heard the word secession prior to 1991? Clearly a resistance movement was heard of but one that had no stated goals of secession. And if secession was the first item on the SNM's manifesto, why did it keep it a secret until the famous "declaration of independence"?

 

It seems the more I dig, the less justification for secession I find atheer. What I am finding is the fervor and zeal some Somalilanders exhibit towards secession seems a bit irrational. In other words, this level of support cannot be explained by the reasons brought forward for secession.

 

I'll keep digging though, for my own sake of course. And if you ask nicely, I might tell you what I find.

[-Nomadique-]

Castro, im still working on obtaining a copy of the Manifesto, but im almost 100% certain that the SNM Manifesto does not speak of seccession.

 

Infact, I happen to know that there was at least one original founder of the SNM who thought the declaration of independence was a big mistake.

[NGONGE]

^^^ I once had a friend who was young, silly and irresponsible. He shacked up with a girl and they did naughty things. She later gave birth to their baby daughter without him marrying her. Now the daughter is sixteen years old and some people keep on saying bad things about the way she was conceived. The mother and father swear that they were secretly married and that the baby was legitimate but not many people believe them. Of course, none of this matters really, the girl is HERE and she’s been in this world for the past sixteen years. Her origins and how she was conceived have become nothing other than simple housewives’ gossip.

 

What do you think you’re achieving by engaging in this meaningless debate?

 

Ps

Though I think the girl is pretty I can’t recognise her as the daughter of her own daddy without being shown a stamped birth certificate from the powers that be. But then again, I really don’t know that girl and don’t have as strong an emotional bond with her as those that grew up with her or brought her up.

[-Nomadique-]

^^Why choose to make your point the long way? LOL

 

 

Perhaps nothing is the answer NGONGE, but an extra 4 pages of reading may be well worth it.

 

 

P.S Im assuming those arrows were being directed at me.

[Ibtisam]

Ngong^^^^Hmmm interesting way of looking at things

[Paragon]

Somalinimo on steroids indeed.

[NGONGE]

Nomadique,

 

I'm not that rude. I was criticising the actual argument over Somaliland. It's sixteen years too late.

[Castro]

^^^^ It may be too late but that little story of yours is hardly applicable here and may be a distortion of the issue.

 

Somaliland is indeed here and I reckon, to stay. But it would be entirely foolhardy of us to engage in a legitimacy discussion when the basis of this legitimacy is quite flimsy and out right bordering on fraud.

 

Let each of us decide for him or herself how they see this and move on. I thought I had Somaliland settled in my mind until the recent invasion of Somalia and now I'm beginning to see it for what it really is: another external tool to divide Somalis.

 

Nomadique, I've read about the said SNM founder who thought secession was a mistake and I can't see how anyone could prove him wrong on this.

 

Ma calayna.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Castrow, one of the reasons I jump on Somaliland threads is because I sensed some intellectual fascism when it comes asking hard questions about the legitimacy, and in your case, genesis of secessionism. The other day I listened one of my intellectual heroes dismantle quite easily and with a marked civility about this notion of independence. His points were easy yet the man who was debating him could not handle it. Check Prof. Samatar’s discussion with Siilanyo. Si xalaala weli loogam niqaashin in Somalilnad go’do iyo inkale…ninkii ka horyimaadaba waxaa la oronayaa car Hargeysa imow waan ku xiraynaa ama waa lagu dilayyaa.

[RedSea]

Originally posted by -Nomadique-:

Castro, im still working on obtaining a copy of the Manifesto, but im almost 100% certain that the SNM Manifesto does not speak of seccession.

 

Infact, I happen to know that there was at least one original founder of the SNM who thought the declaration of independence was a big mistake.

You may not find it on a paper written before 1991 that Somaliland was going to succeed, it has always been a secret between the SNM ranks. That being said, as Suldaanka said the disafication about the union from Somalilanders was clear from the get go, when the South took both posts, the Presidency and PM spot, when the deal was, that the south should have taken the Presidency and Somaliland, the Prime minister spot. It didn't happen, disafications started from that point on. And many somalilanders wanted to get out of the union.

 

If the people didn't want to seceed, they would have not supported it passionately when Somaliland adopted a new flag and declared independence from somalia.

 

In addition, Mr. Abdulraxman Tuur was an oppurtuntist. He was not a leader, he lacked the skill to lead state or even to get it together. He was chosen as Somaliland first President, however he was upset by the fact that the people wanted a better leader, a more charismatic and diplomatic at the same time ruugcadaa politician, the people had Igal on their site, therefore they chose Igal over him, and in anger, he simply went to join the USC in Xamar and appointed himself as vice President or some sort in Southern Somalia. That is not a man who believed a union but was just an oppurtunist.

 

PS. I need to note that Abdulraxman Tuur did a great job in his SNM years as chairman of the movment, however, his role in Somaliland's civil wars and his show of oppurtinistic character was troubling.