Somalia at a point of no return?

[N.O.R.F]

With the current status quo and the ever increasing instability through all Somali parts (SL, PL, South Somalia, OG region), what is the way forward?

 

Are we really at a point of no return?

[me]

Norfsky,

 

No need to add to the gloom of this miserable Friday the 13th.

 

Somalia is at its best position in 20 years of civil war. The old structured will be taken down and a brand new Somalia will be built.

 

Only those that were misled by Sheikh Hotel thought that he and his false caravan were the new dawn.

 

The false barriers erected between our people will be taken down. We will be one again and we will live in peace together after the dust settles.

 

The fact that war clouds hang over previously 'peaceful' regions in the Horn of Africa mean that those regions were built on lies, deceit, and the segregation of our people.

 

We all have to pay a price of our unity. So let’s not cry over it and accept it as a fact of life.

 

Somali is one, Somalia will be free from foreign domination and all the Somali inhabited areas will be united under one Somali government.

[Som@li]

Somalia, has been exploited, weakened by its biggest enemy,(Ethiopia), If your enemy knows your weakness, (here clan), will exploit you further.

 

It is matter of time before a revolution starts, and wipes out all these clan entities like PL,SL,Galmudug , clan militias etc

 

As difficult as it may seem, Things will eventually return to normal,and Somalia will rise again.

 

Organisation like ONLF, must be supported, as their success, will help Somalia.

[me]

Dabshid,

 

A united Somalia is the only way forward. The Xabash overplayed their hand this time. They used the clan card so often that the Somali people are becoming immunized from clan politics and they are turning to national politics.

 

It is a gradual process and the Somali Nation will get there eventually.

 

The clans will be subordinated to the interest of the nation as a whole.

[N.O.R.F]

Me, I'm not interested in mere rhetoric. Substance however, I will entertain.

[N.O.R.F]

Problems:

 

SL - election delays, pursuit of independence, public discontent

 

PL - skirmishes, ONLF handovers being made public, piracy

 

South Somalia - extra time is running out for all parties

[me]

Norfsy,

 

You posted a question, if you don't like the answer then that is your problem.

 

You should not close your eyes to the reality on the ground. Somalia has changed and will continue to change.

 

We need to understand why this change is occurring and why the clan structures were unworkable.

 

If you intended this thread as some sort of a condemnation and let’s cry over spilt milk thread, then my apologies. But if you really want to know what’s going on, go to your local cafe and ask why the Somali people from every region are fed up with the lies and corruption from the so-called leaders.

 

The situation on the ground is unworkable and the people want change. It’s that simple.

[NGONGE]

How did you reach that conclusion, Norf? Did something out of the ordinary (for Somalia) take place recently?

 

The only new (ish) thing in Somalia has been the Islamic appearance some of the players in the conflict have decided to affect. This started with the Islamic Courts and has been spreading ever since. But the TFG remains the same old TFG (though the leaders have changed). The sporadic shootings in the Somali capital are continuing like clock work. The arguments and disputes the same.

 

In Puntland, there is really no big (or new) difference (save the election of Faroole). Yes, there is the piracy problem but, strictly speaking, one cannot refer to that as a political problem (though it has its political consequences of course). A handful of random people getting killed in Puntland or the handing over of ONLF operatives/sympathisers is, in all honesty, not even newsworthy (in the greater context of this being the end of the road for Somalia etc). Yes, the new president is still trying to settle in. Yes, he may not recieve the same respect as Abdullahi Yusuf. But, no, these minor problems cannot be used as signs of the imminent collapse of the state of Puntland.

 

Likewise with SL. Nothing out of the ordinary happened there either (well, other than last year's bombings). We all knew and expected the political parties there to squabble, argue and fall out, exactly like they squabbled, argued and fell out in 2003. This time however, they had the added ingredient of voter registration and the leeway to use that to prolong their arguments. But no civil war suddenly erupted in SL. The leaders of the opposition parties have not been imprisoned or the president's villa surrounded by rebel fighters. It was and still remains, though very heated, the usual ebb and flow of SL politics. As for the occasional person or military officer being killed, it is not much different to what is happening in PL. Such things always took place in SL and PL, yet both states continue functioning and no sane person would dare suggest such meagre examples are indications of any future collapse of either entity.

 

The ONLF are the ONLF and if A&T is to be believed the boys are actually doing well there.

 

This is the short and long of it, saaxib. So, why in the world are you as excited as to suggest that it is the point of no return for Somalia?

[Suldaanka]

^^

Northerner,

Kubad inta hor dhigtay nimankan ayaa markay goolkii iska dhaliyeen isleedahay sax.

[me]

Originally posted by Norfsky:

Problems:

 

SL - election delays, pursuit of independence, public discontent

 

PL - skirmishes, ONLF handovers being made public, piracy

 

South Somalia - extra time is running out for all parties

These are not the problems but just the symptoms. Surely you know that.

 

The symptoms

 

First of all let me entertain your artificial boundaries for the sake of this argument whilst discussing the symptoms of the general Somali problem.

 

1. The people in the secessionist enclave are fed up not because an election was delayed. They are fed up because after 18 years of so-called independence they are poorer then under the Siyad Barre regime. There is corruption, clannism, unemployment and social degradation. They the people do not see their lives improving under the current condition. The people in the secessionist enclave have realized that they were duped, that they were misled and now they want change.

 

2. In the pirates-nest political mistakes have brought it to the brink. The leadership of that region have isolated the region, picked too many fights, corruption and clannism are rife and the normal people do not see any improvements in their lives. They only see a rich elite getting richer and corrupted, while they are surviving for their daily bread. The people see that crime pays, that corruption pays and social degradation is result. Alcoholism, jaad abuse and many other vices. The people want change.

 

3. In the South there is an outright occupation going on, there are foreign mercenaries there that kill Somali civilians daily. There is a corrupt paper government there and there is a war going on. So if the time that foreigners gave to the TFG runs out it does not matter to the Somali people. The liberation of Somali does not have a deadline. It will continue until the objective of a free and united Somalia has been reached. The UN or foreign governments can not give our nation deadlines and timelines. The Somali people will chart their own destiny.

 

In short the people of Somalia want liberty and dignity. They want to have normal lives, they do not want to be oppressed and exploited by foreign nations and their proxies. The people want change.

 

So time will not run out for Somalia as long as this world exists. There are no deadlines for achieving a free and united Somalia.

[N.O.R.F]

Ngonge, you're right in that none of what I mentioned is new (I didn't say it was). But that is exactly the problem. No progress what so ever in all regions. The status quo continues, Somalis distrust each other further, everyone thinks they're correct etc

 

It's been more than 20 years!

 

Me, again, you haven't stated anything new. What do you propose to be the solution? Saying 'the reveolution is here' isn't enough.

[Abu-Salman]

More support and training is afforded to the TFG every day thanks to factors such as Al-Shabab and piracy while Sharif & co are most consensual, thus I'm rather optimistic.

 

What worry me is Sland imbroglio; this democratic farce where the executive appoints the judiciary and terms are self-extended is not propitious to badly needed creation of livelihoods, specially with self-serving af-mishaars at the helm who can not be bothered to put even the basics such as oxygen bars at the nearby Hargeysa Hospital over the last two decades.

 

Thanks to that nefarious culture of "recognition first", nothing has been done in vital areas such as road safety, which hardly needs much resources (though the budget has increased significantly lately)...yet, our most precious asset should precisely have been a committed and visionary leadership.

 

As for Puntland, their internal security troubles need to be dealth with but that would hardly threaten the local consensus, while the self-determination struggle in Somali Galbeed is a work in progress and the fact that no major political force is putting ethnic federalism into question at the upcoming "elections" is in itself some sort of progress.

 

Finally, the quite noticeable dilution of social norms, particularly in the great cities such as Hargeysa (but also Bossaso etc), should be addressed and acculturating influences halted (cultural liberation should be fought at home as well as in our strategic Hawd in Somali Galbeed)...

[Abu-Salman]

Oodweyne, what framework do you suggest for dealing with our social problems?

Which strategy is best to regain our Hawd/Reserved Area and discretly assist freedom fighters in the meantime, or at least not to obstruct them?

[xiinfaniin]

North, Somalia is NOT at the point of no return.

[Suldaanka]

What worry me is Sland imbroglio; this democratic farce where the executive appoints the judiciary and terms are self-extended is not propitious to badly needed creation of livelihoods, specially with self-serving af-mishaars at the helm who can not be bothered to put even the basics such as oxygen bars at the nearby Hargeysa Hospital over the last two decades.

 

Thanks to that nefarious culture of "recognition first", nothing has been done in vital areas such as road safety, which hardly needs much resources (though the budget has increased significantly lately)...yet, our most precious asset should precisely have been a committed and visionary leadership.

 

LOL

 

The atypical myopic opinions of some folks in here is so glaringly self-evident. These folks deem to carry a hubble-sized telescope when it comes to looking into the Somaliland's setbacks, fair-enough. But the funny things is they put on a cover to their eyes when commenting on the rest of what used to be called Somalia.

 

One such fella is the one above. He seems to be bothered rather than being encouraged by Somaliland's experiment at democracy. He seems to redicule the fact that Somaliland's judiciary which is appointed by the President and approved by the parliament while again he turns a blind eye to every other "Presidential System" who do the same.

 

Amazed