Puntland hands over Somali clerics to Ethiopia

[me]

if you can't understand it let me put it in bold letters

 

FOR US TO DEFEAT THIS ENEMY WE NEED TO BE UNITED AND FOR US TO BE UNITED WE NEED TO HAVE A COMMON GOAL

[me]

Originally posted by Northerner:

^^No saxib. As i said i did not accuse you but other in you unity camp. The gallery will decide (if they have time going through three pages in midweek). Many of your threads are lengthy multiple pages. Now i know why!

 

Xanthus, dont worry about me. He blows hot and cold as and when it suits him.

And you hide in a corner waiting for that opportunity

[N.O.R.F]

I'm an opportunist afterall

[me]

I am glad you came to terms with it.

[N.O.R.F]

Maybe i should be a TFG fan and also shout unity. I wont need to worry about my fellow unionists questioning me

[Ibtisam]

ME

Where did I speak in the name of anyone, let alone secessionists, again your paranoia is getting the best of you, I spoke as an individual who has views, accept it as that, don’t try to put me into one of your little box’s, there are some things that I’m liberal on, some things I’m conservative, other things I’m a nationalist etc.

 

Is Northerner a political figure, and who made you the judge of what is in his heart? Further more with all due respect you were not talking about northerner when you made your comment, rather it was a massive generalization, maybe you should choose your words more wisely.

 

I’m glade we agree on the trust issue, That’s a starting point I guess.

 

Sometimes you can take different paths to achieve the same goal, while other times you can take the same path and achieve different goals, so don’t be so narrow minded, the world is not black and white, the gray areas normal make the difference.

 

What is a Somalist?? I’m Bit confused on that one, who is a somalist, what is their believes/ assumptions, Can I be a somalist? Or is an exclusive club? What makes you more somalist than me, or North?- but since you labled him as

a secessionist can he not be a Somali?

 

What are they fighting for? I hear the usual rhetoric of Ethiopians out, Jihad etc, I certainly do not hear them shouting slogans about beating, and murdering innocent people to get political points and risk their life’s while they are at it.

 

What should we fight for?

Anything but Clans, Blood lines, name etc. They should fight for peace, security, religion, and the freedom to do as they wish (and choose who they like to govern their affairs) and live without fear and without losing half of their family for nothing but due to power hungry men with guns, they sould fight for their children to go to school, get educated and developed in time. And since they are the ones fighting they should determine what is worth fighting for, mine are just my thoughts.

 

p.s. Can the Common goal be "peace for all"

[me]

I wouldnt put that past you, it fits the opportunistic profile

 

The warlords and the ICU were both no secessionists are you claiming that they had the same political views?

 

If your answer to that is a NO, then how can you claim that the Stooges and a Somalist have the same political views?

 

The stooges get their fair share of questions from me and their case is a flimsy as the secessionists. So stop finger pointing and take a stance.

 

Northerner where do you stand on the issues of Somali Unity and the war against the xabashis?

[N.O.R.F]

The warlords and the ICU were both no secessionists are you claiming that they had the same political views?

No

 

If your answer to that is a NO, then how can you claim that the Stooges and a Somalist have the same political views?

Never made such a claim but why doesnt the Somalist first of all recognise the stooges (those in power) are the ones doing the 'disuniting'. See how you are pointing fingers again without questioning the fact that unity cant be achieved with todays leaders in place (my earlier remarks on conditions being place etc)?

 

The stooges get their fair share of questions from me

Havnt seen you question them on their hipocracy with regard to unity and somalinimo (ie why shout unity last year and now cheers death and destruction). Other general questions maybe but not specifically relating to unity/somalinimo.

 

Northerner where do you stand on the issues of Somali Unity and the war against the xabashis?

Somali unity is a phrase thrown around without much understanding by those saying it. I'm not implying you dont understand what it means but many others simply dont.

 

You cant be a supporter of any of the current despot leaders (Cadde, Riyalle, Yeey et al) and be shouting unity.

[me]

This is what you said originally.

 

Originally posted by Xanthus:

I also think you are misunderstood a bit as well, Slander or Secessionist as you kindly refer to them are not concerned with have a "Somalinimo" at this moment, they just think what is happening in Somalia to the Somali children/ women and largely innocent people is wrong, unjust, criminal, and the fact it is being committed by fellow Somali's (who by the way promised them peace, etc)

Then you turned it into this

 

Originally posted by Xanthus:

Where did I speak in the name of anyone, let alone secessionists, again your paranoia is getting the best of you, I spoke as an individual who has views, accept it as that, don’t try to put me into one of your little box’s, there are some things that I’m liberal on, some things I’m conservative, other things I’m a nationalist etc.

You not talking in the name of Slander or secessionist, Do I see here I XANTHUS BELIEVE THIS OR THAT? No I don’t. That’s why I labelled you the spokesperson of the secessionists because you took the liberty to speak in their name.

 

Originally posted by Xanthus:

Is Northerner a political figure, and who made you the judge of what is in his heart?

Northerner is the guy I am having this discussing with and what’s making me doubt his intentions is I know his track record and I know that leopards don’t loose their spots.

 

Originally posted by Xanthus:Sometimes you can take different paths to achieve the same goal, while other times you can take the same path and achieve different goals, so don’t be so narrow minded, the world is not black and white, the gray areas normal make the difference. [/QB]

What goals do secessionists and unionists share for them to be able to reach it together? What I am saying is we should have a common goal to begin with otherwise we will not reach the end together. The whole point of unity is bringing our energies our forces together so that we can be more effective. If we are splintered we will not be as effective, then when we are united.

 

Originally posted by Xanthus:What is a Somalist?? I’m Bit confused on that one, who is a somalist, what is their believes/ assumptions, Can I be a somalist? Or is an exclusive club? What makes you more somalist than me, or North?- but since you labled him as

a secessionist can he not be a Somali?

-Somalist is a Somali nationalist, it’s also someone who believes in Somalinimo.

-Yes everybody can become that, it’s just a thought, if you find yourself in the ideals of Somalism, then you are a Somalist.

-What do does a Somalist believe in? Somalist believes in Somalism and what is Somalism?

Somalism: is an ideology that supports that all Somalis are equal and have equal rights, that Somalia is indivisible and that Islam is the religion of the Somalis. The homeland of the Somali Nation is the Horn of Africa. Somalism supports the reunification of all the territories inhabited by the Somali people in the Horn of Africa. The flag of the Somali Nation is azure blue with five angled star. Somalism does not recognize clans and advocated for its abolition The loyalty of the Somali should be with the Somali Nation. The Somali language, culture and heritage are unique and they should be protected from all foreign influences.

 

 

Originally posted by Xanthus:What are they fighting for? I hear the usual rhetoric of Ethiopians out, Jihad etc, I certainly do not hear them shouting slogans about beating, and murdering innocent people to get political points and risk their life’s while they are at it.

Rhetoric’s are one thing but one has to have tangible points, one should have goals to achieve otherwise how do you measure the success of your struggle? If they fight off the Ethiopians then what, when we kick the Ethiopians out will we get back to our little civil war? Shouldn’t we think about that too?

 

Originally posted by Xanthus:What should we fight for?

Anything but Clans, Blood lines, name etc. They should fight for peace, security, religion, and the freedom to do as they wish (and choose who they like to govern their affairs) and live without fear and without losing half of their family for nothing but due to power hungry men with guns, they sould fight for their children to go to school, get educated and developed in time. And since they are the ones fighting they should determine what is worth fighting for, mine are just my thoughts.

In my opinion the common goal should be guaranteeing the survival and the prosperity of the Somali nation. Education, medical facilities, peace etc etc are just support systems for the survival of our nation.

[N.O.R.F]

Northerner is the guy I am having this discussing with and what’s making me doubt his intentions is I know his track record and I know that leopards don’t loose their spots.

 

Nice one lol

[me]

Originally posted by Northerner:

Never made such a claim but why doesnt the Somalist first of all recognise the stooges (those in power) are the ones doing the 'disuniting'. See how you are pointing fingers again without questioning the fact that unity cant be achieved with todays leaders in place (my earlier remarks on conditions being place etc)?

Disuniting Somalia hasn’t started today or yesterday, Somalia’s disunity didn’t start with the TFG or the Ethiopian invasion. The TFG and the Ethiopian invasion are just the symptoms of this disunity. The secessionist are also a symptom of this disunity, when you recognize that we can move forward, because finger pointing at the Stooges alone won’t get our discussion any further. Somali Unity does not depend on the leaders, it depends on the will of the people, but we don’t even have to go that far.

 

Let us talk from one man to another, let us start with ourselves, lets find our middle ground, Riyaakle, Cade Muuse, AY do not represent me, I never voted for any of them. Let us agree on something, let us unite our ideas

 

 

Originally posted by Northerner: The Havnt seen you question them on their hipocracy with regard to unity and somalinimo (ie why shout unity last year and now cheers death and destruction). Other general questions maybe but not specifically relating to unity/somalinimo.

The hypocrisy for the supporters of the stooges is for everyone to see and maybe you should pay more attention to my posts in the future to see how I deal with these stooges. People like these stooges are harming Somalinimo as much as the secessionists are. Like I said two wrongs don’t make a right.

 

 

Originally posted by Northerner:Somali unity is a phrase thrown around without much understanding by those saying it. I'm not implying you dont understand what it means but many others simply dont.

You cant be a supporter of any of the current despot leaders (Cadde, Riyalle, Yeey et al) and be shouting unity.

Northerner Somali Unity is an ideal at this moment and believing in it does not require good leaders, it requires a good heart. So have faith in the coexistence of the Somali nation in one state. Have faith in all Somalis seeing each other as brothers, supporting each other wherever we are. It starts with you Northerner, it starts with the individual North, its not a top down process , it’s a bottom up process.

[me]

So again Northerner, whats your stance on Somali Unity and the Xabashi invasion in Somalia?

 

This question must be hard, because you keep dodging it.

 

The secessionists should be nicknamed the Dodgers!

[Ibtisam]

I don't have time to argue backwards and forwards just for the sake of it so i will just leave you to your assumptions ya "Me" but i advise you to read both quotes again, i spoke of them and their believes, same way i will speak of somalinimo and their believes, when did I say I on behalf of .... believe.....?? I did not think so, Don't assume what i said, REAd what I said.

 

p.s. Thanks for the definition, sounds nice (and never achievable, bit like Keynesian "perpetual peace" I don't believe either is possible but you can aspire to it)

 

Survival is what Somali have been doing for the last 16yrs, it happens and is beyond our control, and prosperity does not come without facilities and institutions which are in turn linked to the ideals I mentioned above.

 

Lastly guaranteeing the survival and the prosperity of the Somali nation you, no one can make any guarantee, and you will find that most people agree with this "guaranteeing the survival and the prosperity of the Somali people" Use that as a starting point, it is better than fighting all the time.

[N.O.R.F]

On Xabashi invasion i think my stance is clear.

 

On unity,

 

The closest I got to agreeing with you on unity was between June 06 and Jan 07. That should tell you more.

[me]

Xanthus the pleasure was all mine, But how can you claim that the ideals of Somalism can't be achieved? What aspects of it can't be achieved?

 

Uniting the territories? Bringing about change in the attitude of the people? Working to ensure that the Somali nation survives and becomes prosperous?

 

Everything starts with an idea Xanthus, this is the idea.

 

Somalis have not been surviving the past 16 years, they have been declining.

 

To guarntee the survival of our nation, our people must first become Wehrbar

 

The prosperity, education and the defence forces of a nation can guarantee its survival in the long run. Prosperity is not the end goal, its the mean for survival

 

 

Survival