Suldaanka Posted May 5, 2007 "Naturally, we do not seek any light, green, red or yellow from anyone..." source This was Meles before the invasion. Invited or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Som@li Posted May 5, 2007 Yaa Ali-Baasha, Well Said, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fabregas Posted May 5, 2007 Ethiopia doesn't have the capacity or the resources to colonize Somalia. Infact, Somalia(united) is more a threat to her than she is to us. Only thing is that Somali subclans have colonized each other. It doesn't take a genius to work out why her army can travel for miles upon end inside Somalia and face no resistance.Furthermore, Ehiopia is not in Somalia to America's dirty work. Actually the Yanks have been more reluctant to give them the green light to invade over the years, despite them constantly alleging the presence of terrorists inside Somalia. They have bigger and more vital interests in Somalia than does uncle Sam. I would even go as far as saying Somali clans and regions are keeping the Tigray regime in power......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paragon Posted May 5, 2007 Somalis invited the Ethiopians, eh? Is that the lie entertained in some quaters? Soomaali oo dhanbaa Xabashada u yeeratey lol. I wish that was the case, but I am afraid, taasi runta ka fog. Nimankan Tigrayga ah, for some, are the bullions of force behind regaining Muqdishu, Kismayo and, if we stretch it further, bring Hargeysa under certain control. Marka yaanan naloogu sheekayn Soomaali oo dhanbaa soo 'invite' gareysey Tigray, when we know specifically who enlisted their help. Whatever the Tigray regime and the Americans had in mind, this is another story. The massacre of 1988 in Hargeysa, carried out by one section of the general tribe of Yey, has created a long-standing hatred between Somalilanders and Puntlanders/reer Gedo/Afmadow etc.. and has possibly led to seccession. Now, with the help of cadowga Tigreega, the other section of Yey's general tribe is carrying out the same attrocities in Mogadishu. The same enmity held by reer Hargeysa is now held by reer Mogadishu. Now, fast foward to 50 or 100 years from now, with such enmities united by one common enemy, who would be the hunted tribe? Whatever the enforced governance that may come out of the TFG now, 50 or 100 years from now, these outstanding enmities are most likely going to distabilize it, just as the Barre regime has collapsed due to greviences. I say, if you want genuine peace and nationhood, think ahead of your time and envisage a more acceptable and durable system of sharing power in the country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baashi Posted May 5, 2007 What is your point, Paragon? Who said "Somali oo dhanbaa" invited Habasha? Who was behind Hargeysa "massacre"? Particular clan or National army under the direction of the leadership at the time? Who is behind the Benadir fiasco? Warlords under TFG? Yey's sub-clan? Geddi/Mohamed Dheere's sub-clan? Ahmed Diiriye's folk? How Yey's clan is responsible for all that went wrong in Somalia? Are u still supporting insurgency or you now think dialogue is the way forward? Share power? How? Through dialogue and negotiation leading to reconciliation grand meeting perhaps!... Adduunyo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paragon Posted May 5, 2007 Originally posted by Baashi: What is your point, Paragon? Who said "Somali oo dhanbaa" invited Habasha? Baashi, my point is, TFG supporters not only say it, but also insist on it. Who was behind Hargeysa "massacre"? Particular clan or National army under the direction of the leadership at the time? Ok. It is quite interesting to notice that you opted for a clan in the place of 'a section of the general tribe', which is the phrase I used. I was hoping 'section' would denote a collection of more than one 'clan'. Think wider, Baashi. Don't be clan-focussed. All leaders are responsible for all the crimes committed under their guard or direction. Gaani, Green, Morgan and et al were all ordered to carryout orders by the leadership of the regime. Other generals might have even taken part in it, but the responsibility rests with the leadership. Its use or misuse of national army or resources will, in Somali terms, be scrutizined as furthering tribal agenda so long as power is held by a dominant tribe. In our case here, the act of one clan against another tribe implicates the tribe in which that clan belongs. One clan within the general tribe of Yey, or if you like, Hiiraale or even Galayr, in their national leadership has made serious begrudging attacks on Hargeysa. And the same, or even uglier –because of those used to massacre the civilians, has been carried out by the remaining section of the general tribe of Yey and Hiiraale. To claim it is the national army that carried out such attacks then and it is the national army now is truly laughable. Sometimes, few home-truths wouldn’t be so bad to enable one to see things as they are, as opposed to way they like them to be. Who is behind the Benadir fiasco? Warlords under TFG? Yey's sub-clan? Geddi/Mohamed Dheere's sub-clan? Ahmed Diiriye's folk? Hmm… do you mind telling me what fiasco that is. How Yey's clan is responsible for all that went wrong in Somalia? Not before, but now they are. But in both accounts, the general tribe was implicated. Its this sort of thing that has prompted the 'dabar-goynta' the tribe slogan in Mogadishu during the 1991 flight that worries me. Would it be repeated? Sure. Are u still supporting insurgency or you now think dialogue is the way forward? Yes, I still believe the insurgency in Mogadishu has a cause worthy of my and all other Somalis’ support. Yes, I am all for dialogues but not with Ethiopians and their lackeys. Share power? How? Through dialogue and negotiation leading to reconciliation grand meeting perhaps!... Dialogue and negotiations, yes but I hope not the one you propose, especially grant meeting with little substance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emperor Posted May 5, 2007 ^Baashi notice the tone, at last Paragons's hate/cuqdad for a clan is finally expossed. Now Paragon comes up with Yey's clan were behind the attrocities against Somaliland in 1988, even a Somalilander can't come up with this wild accusation, one must wonder why Paragon? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paragon Posted May 5, 2007 Originally posted by Emperor: ^Baashi notice the tone, at last Paragons's hate/cuqdad for a clan is finally expossed. Now Paragon comes up with Yey's clan were behind the attrocities against Somaliland in 1998, even a Somalilander can't come up with this wild accusation, one must wonder why Paragon? Read again, Emperor. Wear your glasses this time, would you? Can you comprehend the difference between 'clan' and 'general tribe'? Consult the dictionary, if you must. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emperor Posted May 5, 2007 ^Sxb I can read and know what you are up to, I have seen you for while change shirts and take sides like Dhahar incident, Mogadishu, Kismayo everywhere... It's all clear, we knew your Abu earlier stance although one must wonder when you became a Somalilander or a part time Gedo group supporter... Lets leave at that.. Coming back to the topic, my question to you is this. Has there ever been any mistreatment against the people of North East modern day Puntland carried out by then Somali government? If there was any, would you like to mention or write a bit about whatever bad happened.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paragon Posted May 5, 2007 ^^Is that the information you got out of your research? Who helped in informing you? . Yes, when confronted by two options: to side with Xabashi or to side with reer Dhahar, Somaliland, or reer Gedo, I would gladly choose the Somali side. That should explain to you why I am agaisnt the illegitimate TFG and the illegitimate Ethiopian occupation of Somalia. With that said, I do not support people in their wrongs. I do so only on their rights. Garadaase? PS: Lol, I grew up among other people sxb, so no, no mistreatment there. I am sorry if my opposition to wrong doings is proving painful, because it should. Nothing personal against any group sxb, it is a general rule of mine. Not even reer Dhahar would escape my opposition were they to engage in wrong-doings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baashi Posted May 5, 2007 ^*Smiling* Paragon tell me why should Gen. Mohamed Abshir or Mudane Abdirizak Hagi Husein be liable for the actions of Inna Yussuf? Same with Dr. Mohamed Sh. Aden, Gacaliye, and Gen. Mohamed Hagi Massale; why should they be liable for the policies of Inna Siyad Barre? Horn, Baashi, Xiin, and Libaax are part of that section of the greater clan you refered to, are they as well guilty by association? It's admirable if you stand with Somali brethern in distress and it's also diserable to speak out against dulmi regardless of who commits but it is totally out of line to indict a section of the society because of the actions of politicians whose sole interest is to amaze wealth and exercise state power to satisfy their whims. Adduunyo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baashi Posted May 5, 2007 If I'm not mistaken the insurgents met with Ethiopians. Will that move effect your support for insurgency? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paragon Posted May 5, 2007 ^^Elders met with the Ethiopians. Shariif is in Asmara. As we speak now, members of the insurgency are leaving the city. So no, I don't support self-interested clan elders and their agreements with Ethiopia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Castro Posted May 5, 2007 Originally posted by Baashi: Horn, Baashi, Xiin, and Libaax are part of that section of the greater clan you refered to, are they as well guilty by association? It's admirable if you stand with Somali brethern in distress and it's also diserable to speak out against dulmi regardless of who commits but it is totally out of line to indict a section of the society because of the actions of politicians whose sole interest is to amaze wealth and exercise state power to satisfy their whims. A certain SOLer is missing from that list. Simple omission? Old Baashi, Paragon is venting. Don't make a big deal out of it. The perpetrators of our collective misery come in every clan, shape and form and he knows that but I suspect what's pissing him off is the support some of these killers get from their brethren in clan simply because they share a clan. You know, those who toe the party line, distort facts, minimize the suffering of others and shamelessly lie to advance indefensible ideologies and positions. I may be wrong but that's how I read Paragon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bokero Posted May 5, 2007 Finger pointing takes us no where!! Everyone one is liable played a role is buying us a one way ticket to the abyss, buying single return was always going be expensive but I think we have paid, with blood, sweat and embarrassment, it’s time we go out of this quagmire…. Rather than blaming, which clan did what, wouldn’t be better to draw a roadmap out of this hole we have come to accept as our home in the last 16 yrs? Most Somali clans have played a steering role in bring our nation to its knees.. i suggest we look for formulas out of this rather than further devising ways to even go deeper to abyss… The educated Diaspora, have primary responsibility in ending this madness... but rather i see we have employed our education to give clan/primitive identity sophisticated articulation.... The next natural trajectory Paragon finger pointing is to call for GENOCIDE!!! A final Solution!!! If that is not what you’re leading to then, what is the point of your blurb? People you need to grow out of this primitive thinking… cant we all just get along? and share our mother land!!! Am tired of being a REFUGEE people!!! You are not giving me any hope of going HOME SOON!! I have suggesting lets start a discussion on the SOMALIA WE WANT!!! And how to achieve it!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
