DOWLADDA PUNTLAND EE SOOMAALIYA : New Name

[Meiji]

Lets see whether Duke makes valid points.

 

Originally posted by General Duke:

The Puntland model already works in the US, Germany, Australia, India and various other countries.

 

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On what do you base your claim?

 

Germany, US, Australia have decentralized state systems that have evolved slowly but steadily throughout the centuries. The central states of those countries were very strong and effective in the beginning. Slowly, due to new organizational insights, the central states of those countries devolved some responsibilities to the lower tiers of governments, i.e that of provinces, districts, cities etc. Ofcourse, the USA is a special case in which the governance system is rooted in their history and existence. But even in the US, the central state is powerful and does not find itself in an awkward situation where it is pressured by the Federal states and where it has to ''negotiate'' basic state affaires with the federal states.

 

The 'Puntland' model is one that leads to the creation of mini-states that encroach on the responsibilities of a central state. In the near future, when a central Somali state emerges, it will face pressure from the mini-states which will weaken the effectiveness of the central state and eventually lead to the weakening of the Somali nation.

 

What makes the 'Puntland' model more problematic is the fact that it is based on Clannism. It is a clan entity that masquerades as a state. And if other clans follow this trend we will witness a situation whereby a central Somali state that strives towards the unification of the different Somali groups and development/advancem ent of the Somali nation, will constantly find itself at odds with the clan-based mini-states that strive towards goals limited to their clans. A central Somali state that is constantly engaged in a struggle with clan-based mini-states will have no time, resources and space to defend the Somali interest on the world stage and can hardly defend the Somali nation from external threats.

 

Originally posted by General Duke:

 

A Federal republic where you can even negotiate with Somaliland, [centralism will not do there].

 

Since the collapse of the central Somali state and the ensuing civil war there have emerged different opportunistic groups that all tried to benefit from the state collapse and ensuing division and animosity. We had all kinds of opportunists that benefitted directly and indirectly from the situation of statelessness and division. The warlords, political pretenders, secessionists, clannists, criminals, war-profiteers all thrived during the period of statelessness and division and as such would do everything possible to prevent the re-emergence of a Somali central state and the unification of the Somali nation. There should be no negotiation with these groups that have benefitted from the statelessness and have propagated for divisive political agenda’s.

 

A Somali central state will look to the Somali nation collectively, and come up with a solution that satisfies the needs and wishes of the collective. Every Somali clan wants security for their people and deegaans, development for their people and deegaans. A Somali central state will look at the Somali nation’s need for security and development, and in this all Somali clans are included. The Somali central state should never negotiate with a particular clan. There is no negotiation with groups that push forward divisive political agendas, such opportunists and profiteers of division must be isolated and rehabilitated.

 

There must be a solution that satisfies the Somali nation (all Somali groups) and one should not negotiate with a particular clan to search for a compromise/solution.

 

Originally posted by General Duke:

 

A nation who’s population have deep mistrust of the central authority considering the experience we have had with Barre and warlords like Aydeed & others who wanted to replace Barre.

 

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There is deep mistrust of authoritarian government structure (dictatorship). To clarify things further: there is deep mistrust of a central authoritarian state that fails to rise above clan-structured Somali society and finds itself influenced by particular clans. That is what all Somali groups fear and oppose, and it is a legitimate fear.

 

Opportunists would use that legitimate fear to push political agenda’s that run against the interest of the Somali nation: secessionism, and clan-based mini-states.

 

Duke,

 

Can you explain us in detail what the relationship is (or will be) between the central Somali state and let's say 'Puntland' (representing a clan-based mini-state).

 

Is a central Somali state effective in defending and advancing the interest of the Somali nation (All Somali clans/groups=Somali nation) if there are within it multiple clan-based mini-states?

[General Duke]

Meiji. First of all the federal system in many nations did not take centuries the case of Germany & India is a clear one both are around 6 decades old as states and both very successful in comparison to say Pakistan which has a central system.

 

Puntland state covers more than 1/3 of what is Somalia land mass and 12 o it's coast it's the only area that has access to both the red sea and the Indian Ocean. Thus it's not a mini state as you clanishly refer to it's a superstate.

 

The relationship between the Federal center and the States like Puntland will be ironed out in the future, Pintland has earned the right to govern itself through the dark days if he war. It is home to thousands of Somali families who have been feeing the south for the past decade or so.

 

You can ignore all you like the state today is recognized even by the world powers along with Somaliland as a viable Somali state. Today there are Somalialnd , Puntland and TFg/alshabaab areas. Again stop hating and galling behind.

[Allamagan]

loool @ Dowlada Puntland! Mathematically speaking let Dowlada Puntland & Dowlada Somaliland cancel each other and what do we have left? SOMALIA

 

So not bad at all! I welcome it.

[sool_boy]

in u.a.e they also have federal system ,so it can work in somali? thats the only the way we can unite somalis .

[Meiji]

Duke,

 

You should reason instead of resorting to simple retorics.

 

The ''1/3 landsize'' is part of Somalia and the people are Somalis. Their loyalty should first of all be to a central Somali state (when this emerges) and secondly to their region/province.

 

The clan-based mini-states are a clear threat to the future of the Somali nation and a clear obstacle to the emergence and functioning of a strong central Somali state.

 

 

Am still waiting for your answers:

 

Can you explain us in detail what the relationship is (or will be) between the central Somali state and let's say 'Puntland' (representing a clan-based mini-state).

 

Is a central Somali state effective in defending and advancing the interest of the Somali nation (All Somali clans/groups=Somali nation) if there are within it multiple clan-based mini-states?

You are an ardanent supporter of Clan-based Federalism.

 

Will it be on the basis of clan? subclan? sub-subclan?

[Fabregas]

puntland society would be a better name.

[SayidSomal]

^there is already one badowyahow - and apparently you are their waali

[General Duke]

Meiji adeer; for a man who coined the slogan of “Mogadishu society” claiming the capital was only a clan mechanism should never lecture anyone about clan states or fiefdoms.

 

I gave you simple facts; Puntland is 1/3 of Somalia land and people. The people of Puntland have chosen to look after their own interest and form a new administration that has by the grace of god been successful thus far. Your fear is noted but you do not have any arguments. Since the demise of the central government and the hater brutal regime, Somlia slipped into clan warfare the regions that are Puntland today decided to chart a different course.

 

Federalism is the only sensible course for Somalia or even a confederation of states might work. Centralisam will never. Somaliland extreme position, and Mogadishu other extreme position can only be bridged by a federation. In which Hargaysa, Garowe, and Mogadishu all have their own authority, while working together on economic, foreign and defense issues jointly. A weak central government and powerful state level government where developmental issues are decided in perspective to the needs of the local states interest.

 

This is a viable system you are only afraid because you might not have a greater say as you thought with the fake Mogadishu society. But who care what you think old man, Puntland is getting stronger and insha Allah will succeed.

[Abtigiis]

As part of the expose' I have started on prominent SOLers, I came to know that General Duke's real name is Maxamed Cusmaan Awliyo. He is a supporter of Ahlu-Sunna wal jamaaca. Barnaamijaka dooda ee BBC'da ee Jimcaha ayuu ka qaybqaatay last week.

[General Duke]

lool. @Maxamed Cusmaan Awliyo. A man I knew from London UK. Though you are as usual wrong, not even close in terms of regional make up.

[Abtigiis]

Waryaa GD, your friend (if he is one) waa crazy. Did you listen to his arguments. Waa af-mishaar laakin he is unfit for political debate. Meelaha lagu qaylio kuwa qabsada weeye noocisu. Bismilaah!

[Meiji]

A weak central government

and powerful state level government where developmental issues are decided in perspective to the needs of the local states interest.

Duke,

 

You have proven my stance. A clan-based mini-states will lead to a weak central government that will fall prey to powerful external predatory powers, or just implode.

 

 

My opposition to your clan-based mini states and a weak central state are based on having the interest of the nation at heart. What you are proposing is a weak attempt to pave the way for secession. More importantly, it is a bad copy of the political scam of the TPLF called: ''Federal Ethiopia''.

 

In the socalled consitution of 'Puntland' one does not backdown to talk about secession and one has explicetly stated that if they get not their way, they will secede. Such language and behaviour is to be expected from clan-based mini-states. Imagine the situation where you would have 5 clan-based mini-states in which one or more clan-based mini-states can threaten to secede if their demands are not fulfilled. In such a scenario, the Somali central state would fall victim to the powerplay of the clan-based mini-states and division would be maintained.

 

The Somali nation would be weak, since external powers would try to manipulate the inter-Somali affaires and the clan-based mini-states would hapily enlist foreign actors to back up their power play. In short, the monthly ''pilgrimage'' of the political pretenders to Addis Abbeba and Nairobi would continue to exist.

 

 

PS: As for Mogadishu and the South, even in your scenario of clan-based federal mini-states those regions would be dominant since they have the resources and population size needed to be dominant.

[General Duke]

Meiji adeer; as I have clearly outlined the benefits of the federal structure, local governments would be able to best meet the needs of their regions. The failure of the centralist system and the dire effects its had on Somalia as a whole have shown us that we need an alternative.

 

The Federal system would create check and balance and positive competition between states. Also any citizen of the republic would have a right to reside in any of the states regardless of clan or regional background. Thus your one line “clan ministate” would be redundant. It seems that its those who advocate for the centralist system who harbor clanist ambitions. Adeer get over it Aydeed and the USC have failed in taking the country by force.

 

Again what are you afraid of other than being marginalized?

[Haatu]

I think I have the solution. Let us have a blend of Federalism and Centralism. I will explain what I mean. First of all, Puntland is too powerful for this strategy. It is shaped as an independent country. It needs to become a region that does not have regions within it, whilst at the same time having the same powers as a federal region. The country should be split into federal regions with EQUAL opportunities. Mogadishu will not choose the governors of the regions (which shall be made up of districts), but the people residing in those regions will through local elections (doorashooyinka deegaanka) throughout the whole country. The regions governors will have a regional assembly which shall decide how to spend its budget. They will be given a budget big enough to pay the salaries of the civil servants (e.g police, teachers) by the central government. It will also have control over the regional police force. It will be in charge of building new roads, schools and hospitals etc. Tax shall be collected throughout the whole country which will be given to the central government. All revenues from ports, airports, oil etc, shall be given to the central government. With this money the government will decide a budget for itself and FAIR budgets for every single region. The government will be in charge of national defence and overseeing the work of the regions. The National Assembly (Golaha Shacbiga) in Mogadishu shall include MPs that are voted from their constituencies nationwide in general elections. The central Impartial government will hold the power to veto any of the actions of the regional assemblies if it deems them unfit, only after voting on the matter. It will also hold the power to make new national laws and every region will have to follow them or else face consequences. If a region fails to follow any of the laws passed by the National assembly and refuses to acknowledge them, the National Assembly will have the right, after a unanimous vote, to disband that regional assembly and call for fresh elections in that region. This will ensure the rights of the people to choose their own leaders, and also make sure the country has a far system of governance regardless of clan lines.

[General Duke]

^^^Not bad but not enough.

 

The best formula would be a weak central government that guides the states and a strong local government with all the powers to do local issues and set their own agendas.

 

Only national defense, foreign affairs, and the federal budget should be left to the central government. Roadwork’s, healthcare and education should be left to the states. Economic development and foreign direct investment should be left to the states.

 

80% of local taxes should go to the state i.e. Puntland and 20% to the center i.e Mogadishu.

 

Each Federal state shall have its members elected by its population and those who are sent to the Federal level are also elected by the states.

 

Thus a weak central government would stop any ideas of coups and power grab and the regions would also develop faster.

 

Puntland, Somaliland and two more in the south with Mogadishu or Barava as capital.

 

All Somali’s born anywhere will be automatic citizens to the Federal republic and reside in any state of their choice.