Yey : Dadka Madaafiic ayaa lagu garaacayaa...

[Captain Xalane]

Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne:

^^So you are a female, and thus I can shukaansi you, righ?

 

*************************

 

[ March 22, 2007, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[Alle-ubaahne]

^^******************************** I hate to say this, to blame your wrongdoings for those innocent girls that relate to you, but the culture dictates that, sax?

 

waaba hadaan kula xidido, gabadhaadaba ha ii nacamleeso!!

 

lol

 

[ March 22, 2007, 11:58 PM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[xiinfaniin]

1. Is this war a nationalistic war?

If you are referring yesterday’s war, it’s not nationalistic at all. But there are those in Xamar who are genuine in their opposition against Ethiopia and tfg. They are mainly the remnant of defeated Islamic Courts. They do have their rights to oppose this tfg, and I certainly sympathize with them. Lest you forgot, there are hundreds of angry shabaabs in Xamar whose wounds from the last war are fresh. When these youths strike at the Ethiopian bases and attack tfg soldiers, I do sense some nationalistic sprit in their acts. So yes this war is not all tribal in nature. But it’s dominated by clannish sentiments and hence my reluctance.

 

2. Is this war a religious war?

The same answer I gave to q#1 applies here. Besides if you listen to the old man’s alqaida and terrorism rhetoric, it’s tempting to brand it as such. But I know better, and recognize that he and his tfg want to appease the powers that be and just throw these lines when they want to address western audience. So it’s partly religious as well when you count those who are fighting for the cause and want to drive Ethiopia out of their soil.

 

3. Is Somalia under occupation?

Certain regions in Somalia are under occupation, including the Capital. Baashi forget about the technicality of this, and face the sheer fact that Ethiopia, supported by US, defeated a genuine Islamic movement that enjoyed grassroots support from the public. That’s a fact. Tfg offered a diplomatic cover and become the face of this hegemony for its own political interests, which we all understand. But that does not take away the fact that Ethiopia has a heavy military presence, and continues to assert control and authority on many areas. Think about those who were abducted from Nairobi, and after brief transit at Mogadishu airport, sent to Addis jails. Even big names like Madoobe were flown out of his land, which is supposedly under tfg control, and sent to Addis after sham public concessions. It’s really clear that Somalia in invaded. Even US is wrestling how to sanction this invasion after the fact, and attempting to buy AU troops to legitimize this project. So it’s quite clear that Somalia is under occupation. You know Baashi Iraq is under occupation in reality but some people don’t admit. The fact is that masses or a great majority of it will always see it that way as long foreign troops remain on its soil. Same thing goes to our case adeer.

 

4. What does the TFG want?

Adeer it’s a riddle. Some times you might think it want to rule Somalia, and genuinely resurrect it from its grave. But you look at its behavior and how it utterly fails to recognize the wadaads and their political participation. You begin to doubt when you see them cashing the terrorism card and intending to milk the west for own political gains. So you tell me what you think they might want to achieve.

 

5. Does the TFG represent a particular clan? Which clan is that?

 

I don’t think tfg represents a particular clan. But you can’t help but wonder when you hear naked threats coming from Jeelle about certain sub-clans being the target of the government’s wrath. There are cues that indicate that it’s coming down on a certain sub-clans. But in short, tfg’s composition is clannish but I don’t think it represents a particular clan.

 

6. Do you support peace in Somalia?

Absolutely adeer. I pray for it. Sincerely that is.

 

7. Do you support reconciliation summit between the warring factions (details and the

terms later)?

Reconciliation summit in which all parties participate is the way to go. Actually it’s the only meaningful and realistic way to go. So I do support that.

 

7. Is this conflict about Muslim vs. Munafiq kinda deal as some would argue?

That’s a rhetorical question yaa Baashi. If you insist, it’s too simplistic for me to answer it. I already told you that tfg is viewed as an enemy partner. Its leaders brought Ethiopia to our soil. They say they are fighting with terrorists. They even say they are fighting with alqaida. As you can see there is a reason to doubt their sincerity. But I wouldn’t go as far as accusing the whole entity as a munaafiq. There must be some good people who are not on board with all these policies but don’t see any other alternatives to jump the ship and abandon it.

 

8. Do you believe force is the cure of the Somali conflict?

Oh another loaded question yaa Baashi. But this time let me give in and say NO. Force alone is not the solution for Somali conflict. It may be the case that force may be needed to right some wrongs but it must accompanied with a realistic program and legitimacy.

 

 

This is very simple adeer. TFG in its current form and policies is not viable and will not deliver us from the evil as it were. Ethiopia is the elephant in the room. It has to go. Short from that, violence is inevitable.

[Alle-ubaahne]

^^xiinow, Wallee ilaahey inaad qof daacad ah tahay darteed kuuma cadaabo. War ninka su'aalihiisa daacad ma aheyn, jawaab daacad ahna uma qalmin, caku iyo daacadnimadaada!!

 

ehehehehehehe, laakiin iskaga xog waran, waa intaas oo ilaahey kusoo hanuunshaa hadalkaaga laabta kasoo go'ay!

 

FG. war xiinow carabiga meesha hoose kuugu qoran bal ii macnee, koley nin weyn oo xikmad badan wuxuu sitana xikmad baa la socotee. lol

[xiinfaniin]

^^Waryee Alle-ubaahane, Baashi waa daacad, and i am not really saying it just for the sake of muran. I know the man.

 

You don’t have to impeach his integrity to disagree with him, adeer. Waxaani waa cyber medium and one cant pass a judicious judgment on any character here without hastily committing the cardinal sin of tuhun. Beware saaxiib.

 

ps- Baashi, dont let my tazkiyah on you sway you. Challenge me adeeer and be harsh on me in this debate. I need someone who can really dig in these things with me, so may be we can arrive some workable formula to agree to.

[Alle-ubaahne]

^^Wallee sidii nin rag ah warka waad u duugtay, ceebna waad u asturtay!

 

Waan ku iri xiinow, Cadow lala dagaalamo, putting it in the mouth of Baashi, adaa ugu fiican! This statement was uttered by the Qureysh when they were describing the enemyhood of the prophet (scw)against them (of they believed in, of course, not their beings).

 

Keep up the good integrity, saaxiibkeey!

[Juje]

Originally posted by Captain Xalane:

Juje,if the TFG goes down,it will go down having secured the unity it promised and it will do that even if they have to take the 65% we already talked about with them.

I dont know what equations you use to get the percentages you often use - but that aside, it is not a question of if sxb, this TFG will go down and with it it will take the tag of reviving the 1990's civil war. If it has succeded in achieving anything it has achieved that - thanx to C/llahi and his kinsmen , whom none stood up to say to him you are leading us into a civil war which we cant afford - probably the thought of having the backing of 16000 Ethiopian troops has superceded their logical thinking and blinded them from the fact that it could fail with a serious repercussion - a good example 'Cadado' today.

 

Xiin I seriously thought you will repulse those questions back to the owner and insist that you get his views before you contemplate in answering it - alas, it was never to be - you now have answered it in manner which was expected of you, like a kid answering multiplication questions.."bravo...you go that and this right ...but you were wrong in here and there", you invited yourserlf to be evaluated.

[Alle-ubaahne]

^^Oo juje, when did you get into our good Bus?

 

Wallee waa inaan sadaqo bixiyaa, dad badan ayeey ducadeenii asiibtay, masha-Allah!

 

lol

[Baashi]

Very well Xiin.

 

Let's recap aight. I'm connecting the dots to see your overall coherant view of the situation. Here we go awoowe:

 

The storm brewing in Benadir is not a civil war between two Somali factions! On the one hand it is indeed religious war since the shabaabs are part of the resistance. On the other hand, it's nationalistic war for goal of the insurgency is to drive foreign troops.

 

Somalia is under occupation and as such guerrila war is a legit means for resistance. TFG is a disgrace. The whole enterprise not only lack legitimacy but they forced their way in and hence the idea of raping and romancing "her" - that is maandeeq- is a bit of well over the top.

 

Despite of all these firm and unshakable stands you support the peace with conditions. Not only do you support negotiated settlement between the warring factions as the way forward but infact you think that's the only way to end the conflict peacefully.

 

Moreover you seem to be suggesting that the Somali conflict and its latest tragic drama is beyond balck and white issue. To put it in these terms is too simplistic, you opined. In addition the sweeping generalization of classing the contestents as Muslims vs. Munafiqs is a stretch you thought.

 

You want Ethiopians out. By what means you didn't say! By all means. What is the plan under what banner. All these details deserve its own topic. But for now let's straighten out few kinks!

 

Am I on the money or corrections are in order buddy? Crystal clear? Super.

 

You are not in league with Captain Xalane, Kashafa, and Ulle-U-Baahane. Their opinion is inline with that old line...Ha la dirriro dagaal waxan ahayn daawo lagu waa e! They have no moral qualms about the deaths the urban wars are known to exact.

 

Nor are you in line with Rahima and Alle-U-Baahane (again waa issagii *smile*) who think this akin to Munaafiq (dabadhilifis, dorknobs, and what have you...clans who ally themeslves with that entity) vs. pious Muslims (nationalists, ICU remnants, the sub-clan whose loot it sat on for too long is no more).

 

Moving on...another set of questions: But before that let me start with this outline for my questions are about this subject.

 

Awoowe violence is sometimes useful tool!!!! Surprised? Yeah! I don't blink the fact that there comes times where people get so abusive that you have to take army against them. Having said that one has to weigh the advantages against disadvantages. Awoowe idle violence for the heck of it is terrible waste of energy and waste of moral value. If by killing one enemy soldier means losing wife, kid, mother, or a neighbor one has to think twice before one takes action methinks. I once read somewhere that fighting for three Fs is a must regardless of sacrifices. Family, Freedom, and Faith. Do you see where I'm heading with this aight.

 

1. What is necessary violence and what is not necessary violence?

 

2. What you make of insurgency fighters shooting from neighborhoods where civilians live knowing full well that the enemy they are fighting has no moral qualms to swipe that neigborhood clean with one go?

 

3. How do you go about having your conditions on taking part of the gathering heard?

 

4. Will you go to this imperfect reconciliation meeting and make your peaceful stand (change the polorizing figure at the top and we'll participate..or what not condition) in the gathering with the full glare of the world camers...imagine political exposure!?

 

5. In your mind, how do you separate Islamists from maniacal roaming thugs and killers burning and looting?

 

I'm not finished with you awoowe. It's getting late in my neck of the wood and I'm extremely busy these days it is not even funny anymore wallahi. That being said, I will come back with coherant thought on what i think is the right thing to do not that it matters but what the heck just to show that opinions vary in this forum.

[General Duke]

Xiin is getting alarmed all of a sudeen.

The group he supported is more interested in fighting a PUNTLAND invasion and not so interested in his enemy Ethiopia...

[ElPunto]

Xiin & Baashi - pardon my interruption - but I had to add 2 other questions to the list for Xiin:

 

1- If the Ethiopians leave en masse next week - will the violence suddenly end - and if not how do you deal with it? ie. given an intractable intransigence on the part of some people how do you go about building a government?

 

2- What are the parameters of this negotiated settlement to be arrived at the national reconciliation meeting that will, in your mind, lead to a lasting peace? What is the (realistic) grand bargain to be arrived at to establish a functioning government in Somalia?

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Dadkiina qaarkood aflagaado iyo childish caay ma'ahee wax kale aan ku heynin meeshaan, maad naga joojisiin afxumadaan maalin Eebbe eekana meesha ku heysiin, in la idin soo dhexgalo ma'ahee.

 

Aflaagadaan yareeya, if you don't want your posts la tirtirin; not edited this time, but tirtirid -- deleted -- and whatever good points it contains gone with it.

 

If you want to waste your time and our time, well be our guests.

[Alle-ubaahne]

Originally posted by Baashi:

 

You are not in league with Captain Xalane, Kashafa, and Ulle-U-Baahane. Their opinion is inline with that old line...

Ha la dirriro dagaal waxan ahayn daawo lagu waa e!

They have no moral qualms about the deaths the urban wars are known to exact.

 

Nor are you in line with Rahima and Alle-U-Baahane (again waa issagii *smile*) who think this akin to Munaafiq (dabadhilifis, dorknobs, and what have you...clans who ally themeslves with that entity) vs. pious Muslims (nationalists, ICU remnants, the sub-clan whose loot it sat on for too long is no more).

 

Baashiyoow, ninka iska dhici, af-gobaadsiga inta iska deysid, waxaad meesha ku heyso oo caqli ah miiska soo saar, horaa loo yiri falaari gilgilasho kaagama hartee!! lol

 

Alle-ubaahne and Rahima have no moral in your view, and Baashi who cheers for the death and destruction of Mogadishu people, even when they attempt to resist against their enemy, he calls them clanists! Hating the Ethiopians as an enemy of us with the thousands of evidences at our figertips, you still deny our rights to do so, only because Ethiopia is rented for you today!

 

Shame on you, the caaqil of puntland, if you are any caaqil, I should say!

[Pi]

By the way, I've observed this, and I think others can corroborate it, but there's this strange sadistic want of some "Puntlanders" (case in point: Abu Paragon, xiin, remember ole "windtalker" or was it Horn ) to destroy not only the TFG but Puntland itself. They're quick to jump up and down with giddiness anytime there is a threat to Puntland. Remember when the ICU came to Mudug. Their support for ICU is no more than grievances against Puntland adminstration. Very strange if you ask me. Sub-clan greivances? You tell me. Am I way off on my speculations? :confused: :confused:

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by Pi:

By the way, I've observed this, and I think others can corroborate it, but there's this strange sadistic want of some "Puntlanders" (case in point: Abu Paragon, xiin, remember ole "windtalker" or was it Horn

) to destroy not only the TFG but Puntland itself. They're quick to jump up and down with giddiness anytime there is a threat to Puntland. Remember when the ICU came to Mudug. Their support for ICU is no more than grievances against Puntland adminstration. Very strange if you ask me. Sub-clan greivances? You tell me. Am I way off on my speculations? :confused: :confused:

^^Not really off the mark, yaa Pi. You guessed it right; xiin & Abu Paragon waa isku reer, wax badan ma kala tirsadaan. Their sub-clan hates the current ruling sub-clan. They’ve contributed money and critical information and enticed ICU’s failed invasion of Puntland. Now they are trying it with other means. Very dangerous I tell you.

 

Rag haddaad colaad leedihiin ciidanse u weydo

hadba waxaad ku ciil bixi kartaa kuu cawa adduuna .

 

Now you need to deal with them, instead of pointing the obvious saaxiib.

 

Baashi, I think you’ve eloquently summarized my answers. It’s getting late where I am and I will IA log in tomorrow. We shall continue.

 

ThePoint, good to see you back adeer. I will try yours tomorrow as well IA.