Somaliland closer to recognition by Ethiopia

[RedSea]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Ethiopia is the birthplace of the secessionist ideology. That it’s going to take the first step to further develop its baby makes most sense to me.

Oh really. Do you have anything backing that claim?

 

Is Somaliland influenced by Ethiopian politically yes, no doubt, however did Somaliland come about because of Ethiopia, no way, that is absurd and laughable.

 

If you are making the case that the SNM was born in Ethiopian, they you luck basic understanding of it all. The SNM was created abroad, operated from Ethiopia for few years. They were kicked out after they signed agreement with Siyad Barre.

 

The chairman of the SNM at the time they were in Ethiopia happens to be Siilaanyo, he actually condemn the Ethiopian aggression in Southern Somalia.

 

So please before you make cheap comments like that, make sure you speak with some sort of evidence in hand. Or are you simplisticly relying on your elderly 'hadii kale waxan lahaa' here, no aahay to you there old man.

 

 

Kashafa,

 

The good thing about the SL situation is,which many people dismiss and aren't in clear understandin of is that, Somaliland contains multi parties. I feel the same way about Ethiopia and I am outraged as I am sure many Somalilanders are about Ethiopias' doings in Southern Somalia. The majority of sane beings dont support it, nor would want to have anything to do with Ethiopia beyond economical relations for the survivor of the region, military relations is no no.

 

Somaliland simply requires a change, it needs it. Of the three parties in Somaliland, Udub is by far the most disliked, use to well received, but no more. This time Kulmiye has the edge over Udub in many ways. The chairman of Kulmiye party, mr. Silaanyo has publicly spoken out against the Ethiopian bombardment of civilians in Southern Somalia and compared it to the massacre that took place in Somaliland under the facist regime of Siyad Barre.

 

Somaliland is indeed influence by Ethiopia, that is no secret at all, however where Somaliland hugely differs from the TFG(Puntland included) is the fact that Somaliland isn't made as claimed by Xiin, but rather the current adminstrations is under extreme influence of Ethiopia. Unlike the TFG, which regardless of the change made still would be an Ethiopian servant, just because it was actually made to be. On the other hand Somaliland needs a new leadership, who is not willing to take crap from Ethiopia.

 

Ethiopia yes is more power than Somaliland and can simply rolled into Hargeysa without much defense, however Somaliland has been going around the world for last decade and half and is well know as being peaceful oasis which needs no disturbance, therefore it would be impossible for Ethiopa to simply invade Somaliland without an International outrage, unfortunately, the world has turned deaf ear to Muqdisho. Knowing that Mr. Silaanyo and his Kulmiye party have nothing to lose and alot to gain by telling Ethiopia straight on, that they will not take alot of crap from Melez and that Somaliland will make decisions on its own.

 

Silaanyo met up with many Somali galbeed elders when he came to Minnesota few years back, he promised them if he took power in Somaliland that they would be no more handing of innocent men over to Ethiopia, because of being 'terrorist', Udub party is in charge of Somaliland, blame them, not somaliland, so blame Riyaale and his right and left wing men and not Somaliland. Somaliland is a country to be, whether we like it or not, and no I wish not to gain recogntion from Ethiopia, however that doesn't hault our wants for recogntion as seperate country, functioning on its own.

 

So simply say as I say, down to Udub, viva Kulmiye.

 

Just like most of the American people dislike Bush and his conservatives, we indeed also dislike Riyaale and his Udub party.

[RedSea]

Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-

On SOL alone, you have staunch pro-unity, like Rudy and Peacenowrealized it does not work that e

Rudy is not from Somaliland saaxib.

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by Muj: Red Sea:

quote:Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Ethiopia is the birthplace of the secessionist ideology. That it’s going to take the first step to further develop its baby makes most sense to me.

Oh really. Do you have anything backing that claim?

 

Is Somaliland influenced by Ethiopian politically yes, no doubt, however did Somaliland come about because of Ethiopia, no way, that is absurd and laughable.

 

If you are making the case that the SNM was born in Ethiopian, they you luck basic understanding of it all. The SNM was created abroad, operated from Ethiopia for few years. They were kicked out after they signed agreement with Siyad Barre.

 

The chairman of the SNM at the time they were in Ethiopia happens to be Siilaanyo, he actually

condemn

the Ethiopian aggression in Southern Somalia.

 

So please before you make cheap comments like that, make sure you speak with some sort of evidence in hand. Or are you simplisticly relying on your elderly

'hadii kale waxan lahaa'

here, no aahay to you there old man.

 

 

Kashafa,

 

The good thing about the SL situation is,which many people dismiss and aren't in clear understandin of is that, Somaliland contains multi parties. I feel the same way about Ethiopia and I am outraged as I am sure many Somalilanders are about Ethiopias' doings in Southern Somalia. The majority of sane beings dont support it, nor would want to have anything to do with Ethiopia beyond economical relations for the survivor of the region, military relations is no no.

 

Somaliland simply requires a

change, it needs it

. Of the three parties in Somaliland, Udub is by far the most disliked, use to well received, but no more. This time Kulmiye has the edge over Udub in many ways. The chairman of Kulmiye party, mr. Silaanyo has

publicly

spoken out against the Ethiopian bombardment of civilians in Southern Somalia and compared it to the massacre that took place in Somaliland under the facist regime of Siyad Barre.

 

Somaliland is indeed influence by Ethiopia, that is no secret at all, however where Somaliland hugely differs from the TFG(Puntland included) is the fact that Somaliland

isn't made

as claimed by Xiin, but rather the current adminstrations is under extreme influence of Ethiopia. Unlike the TFG, which regardless of the change made still would be an Ethiopian servant, just because it was actually made to be. On the other hand Somaliland needs a new leadership, who is not willing to take crap from Ethiopia.

 

Ethiopia yes is more power than Somaliland and can simply rolled into Hargeysa without much defense, however Somaliland has been going around the world for last decade and half and is well know as being peaceful oasis which needs no disturbance, therefore it would be impossible for Ethiopa to simply invade Somaliland without an International outrage, unfortunately, the world has turned deaf ear to Muqdisho. Knowing that Mr. Silaanyo and his Kulmiye party have nothing to lose and alot to gain by telling Ethiopia straight on, that they will not take alot of crap from Melez and that Somaliland will make decisions on its own.

 

Silaanyo met up with many Somali galbeed elders when he came to Minnesota few years back, he promised them if he took power in Somaliland that they would be no more handing of innocent men over to Ethiopia, because of being 'terrorist', Udub party is in charge of Somaliland, blame them, not somaliland, so blame Riyaale and his right and left wing men and not Somaliland. Somaliland is a country to be, whether we like it or not, and no I wish not to gain recogntion from Ethiopia, however that doesn't hault our wants for recogntion as seperate country, functioning on its own.

 

So simply say as I say, down to Udub, viva Kulmiye.

 

Just like most of the American people dislike Bush and his conservatives, we indeed also dislike Riyaale and his Udub party.

Your explanation is deficient in many ways. The problem is not that you lack understanding of the current situation in Somalia; rather the problem is that you suffer from the same ills we Somalis suffer; Qabiil. That’s really it. How else can you tell me with a straight face that Somaliland is a country, and not a region in Somalia? Look back what you wrote, Redka, and reflect on it. Siilaanyo does not like what Ethiopia is doing you said. And I reckon you would dismiss Ina Waraabe’s kind comments toward Ethiopia in a similar fashion. In your mind, the problem is with udub, and not with Somaliland. A nice try but the facts hinder you. One can’t help but notice how far you went to explain hard facts away. But the truth is both stubborn and rude. And here the truth is that the goal of securing Somaliland’s recognition justifies the means. You are blaming Riyaale for your political ills. The man, my good brother, is only conforming to the reality on the ground. And the sad reality is those who are dominant in Somaliland’s power centers want to secede by any means. They do know, unlike you, that Ethiopia is what sustains them politically and militarily. They don’t love Ethiopia necessarily but they do appreciate its significance in the region. And they want a good relationship with it. Given the political goals they long and desire, they just can’t do without. This is the catch though: the old man in the south garnered Ethiopia’s support to reach his political goals, likewise secessionists everywhere do the same thing and are found in Ethiopia's capital begging the same support. That the goals differ makes a zilch difference as both failed to recognize that Ethiopia’s interest in the region clash with theirs as Somalis. Why blame one with passion, I dare ask, while conveniently explaining the other away! This is really repetitive and boring but those whom the unity of their people eludes them, and in their blindness sleep with the enemy in dismembering our fallen republic have no claim on honest…

[RedSea]

I am really amazed by your comments, you considered mind as rude, however your comments were mostly filled with emotional outbursts. If you want to have any sort of discussion with me here, you have to be willing to respect the opinionos of others, when it does no harm nor advance any wrongful ideas that would make one break the rules of Islam.

 

Before I go into anything else, let me first ask one simple question...and that is. Is the seccession of Somaliland a sin in our faith or is so called Somaliwayne earn one to be more rightous than the other who believes in Somaliland. ?

 

I think the answer is very simple, as simple as 'No' would do. Therefore please let us not pretend or dismiss ourselves as being naturally to be right on issue such as this. All I am saying here is don't be so self rightous for you are closer to the truth nor are closer to rightous deeds than I am regardless of what concept of either Somaliwayne or whatever that you believe in.

 

That being said, you have made comment that Somaliland is the baby of Ethiopia. What does that mean? well basicaly you implying that Somaliland was made, which is the main point I have came out to challenge.

 

Firstly, you must realize that to influence and to make something are to two distinct things.

 

To be made would apply to the TFG however to influence would define the situaiton in Somaliland.

 

So who made Somaliland to be?

 

There are many ways you can look at this. However, from my perspective, I would say Somaliland was created by Somalis for Somalis for Somalilanders. During the 1991 Shir (Conference) in Burco, there were no Ethiopians present to right down the rules of seccesion. If Ethiopia was present at that time, then you would have point there my dear friend. However that being NOT the case is therefore grave mistake for you to simply dismiss the hard work done by those elders, educatars, former militia men etc... in order to bring the chaos to end and avoid further blood shed in the region, heck alot of people benefited from this.

 

You and I agree....

 

That Ethiopia doesn't want the somalis to ever be in strong position, hence they fear to be challenged militarily in the region. Yes that we do agree. However, you must realize if Ethiopia wanted that, then they would have made sure that peace didnt bloom in Somaliland in 1991, mind you Ethiopia was facing its own regime change back then.

 

Therefore that is clear indiction that Somaliland is the formula straight from the cerebrum of Somalilanders and not foreigners as you claimed them being the 'baby' of.

 

As for multi parties in Somaliland. The one I personally support more and would likely vote If I had the oppurtunity would be Kulmiye party lead by Siilaany. I didn't say Faysal Cali Warabe' UCID, nor did I say Udub parties' Riyaale Kahin. There are reasons why I oppose them.

 

Furthermore, you proved to me and everyone else that you simply think Somaliland is what Riyaale or the Udub party are. Then you are wrong my friend. We have different views mostly on many issues. I oppose Riyaale and if hate wasn't strong word for it, I would apply it. I feel the same way about the comment of Faysal Cali Warabe which you pointed I perhaps support. I think I made myself clear on that numerous times, that Faysal Cali Waraabe doesn't speak for anyone but himself and his party only. He doesn't hold the views of everyone, if you think he is, if you think Riyaale is, then consider this> Does President Bush and his Republics represent the voices of ALL Americans. . Al jawaabu cintaka.

 

 

In addition, you said Somaliland begs for the Ethiopians. Okay let us say that is the case, however, don't you think Somaliland isn't doing enough bending over for Melez since they have never commited troops to Somali territory to kill. Somaliland does ask Ethiopia for recogntion, if Ethiopia didnt commit the crimes against Southern Somalia as they did recently, I would have no problem with it at all.

 

Recently, you and mr. Castro, have been having your ways with Somaliland's issue of it being just like the TFG or perhaps slightly differ.

 

That is where, I think you two really get it wrong by large margin as I am proving it to you time and again that Somaliland is not the product meaning made by ethiopia but rather influenced, that influence could simply begone with leadership change, however the TFG (yes Puntland state included) are the mere products of Ethiopia directly. They hand delivered them to power, they watch over them, they speak for it.

 

Ethiopia did not deliver peace to Somaliland, nor did they disarmed any of the power SNM militia, we did it. We settle for former NSS, we did it. We managed to get our act together, we did, not ethiopia. So please for the love of mind kind, stop giving Ethiopia all of this credit, or is it a way for you and others, (Somaliland 'lover's) that is to hide behind Ethiopia in order to take timely hookes on Somaliland.

 

Somaliland will Insha Allah be Ethiopian influenced free, and Southern Somalia will be freed all together from the occupation. Heck you people are comparing an occupation to well established region that needs only some needed changes, such as leadership. Think about that.

 

Yeynaan is caayin na, inaad qabalist igu sheegtid xaq umalihid, sidaan horeyba kuugu sheegay, ha iska dhigin nin saxnida ku dhashay, Somaliwayne na jana ugama dhawa Somaliland, kamana sharaf badna, kama diin fiicna. Meelkasta Ilaahay wuu jooga, calankaan rabo aan taagto, hadii aan ku faraxsan ahay, waan socodsiinayaa, iyadoon cidna ujoojin. Lasoco

[RedSea]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

This is the catch though: the

old man in the south garnered Ethiopia’s support to reach his political goals, likewise secessionists everywhere do the same thing and are found in Ethiopia's capital begging the same support.

Let me take little more time with this point here.

 

It's really sad today, that one can have the guts to compare a state with fully functioning government, corrupt yes in some ways, but fully functioning, happy population, extremely peaceful atmosphere and what many called it the 'peaceful oasis' in the horn and can simply put it on the same boat as a regime which came to be in a forceful way using non Somalis to kill other Somalis. A regime that functions not without as you said without the Ethiopians supressing the voices of majority of Somalis and making them submit to an entity which they want not can in no way on God's blue Planet be compared to an entity which came to be on its own, under the guidance of its people, under the pens of locals not foreigners, under the shades of local trees not foreing hotels and lastly which secured itself with its sons and daughters who are homegrown.

 

I think everyone who is reading this, who is reasonable can see the arogance of those two comparisons into being one and the same thing. I think it's not only uncivilized and ironic, but it's something that bothers me too much to look over. I can't grasp how the TFG and Somaliland be comparable in many ways, withe exception that Ethiopia is the 'creator' of one and the influecing force behind the other.

 

Somaliland was, Ethiopia influence came. The TFG never were, they were made to be about my Ethiopia. Very BIG difference adeer. Kala saar, si xaq ahna wax uufiiri.

[Gordon Gekko]

I would say Somaliland was created by Somalis for Somalis for Somalilanders

Could you elaborate on this a bit more?

[xiinfaniin]

^^Redka, as you are beginning to find out a secessionist can’t easily shake off the ever-visible Ethiopian influence on Somaliland entity. Be proud of it, explain it in the light of the said newly found companionship like Duke does, or change your stance on it and join Xiin. There are others who tried to be both and the result was quite devastating--their center simply fell.

 

Here are some facts to consider: SNM was a rebel movement. It had a legitimate grievance against Barre’s dictatorial regime. It’s political platform as far as we possibly know never included dismembering Somali republic. It looked, smelled, and walked just like other movements against Barre’s brutalities and injustices. That it abruptly morphed into a secessionist movement that fanatically seeks independence from an already dead regime is just a one big fat to propagate adeer. Wallaahi it’s lame to even attempt to make a case for this. Ethiopia didn’t create the sad realities on our soil-- it just exploits it. It exploits secessionism just like it does with warlordism. All these settings provide the correct values for it to solve the complicated Somali equation. That’s the big picture. Reading your long post however you seemed to have conveniently forgotten my implicit depiction and instead attempted to defend the exposed! I suppose it’s your literal mind that’s leading you to take the exact meaning of what I wrote and disregard the political context that gives its proper meaning. No matter.

 

Now you complained the qabiil biases that I hinted. Check this adeer and see how transparent you are in that regard; in your mind Somaliland is the net product of its intellectuals, elders, and scholars while Puntland is chiefly an Ethiopian creation ! Just chew on that.

 

One day you will IA come to the realization that if Ethiopia and Kenya are nations with diverse ethnicities and religions, dividing Somalia on the basis of yesteryear’s colonial legacy is just another trick to hold us back and give advantage to our adversaries in the region. One day Insha Allaah~~

[RedSea]

Xiinfaniin,

 

Ala maxaad ku galgalatay cinwaankan. You made a claim, now you just need to back it up of how....

 

1. Somaliland was created by Ethiopia.

2. How Somaliland and the TFG( which by Golly we know what is made of) are the same thing.

 

It aint rocket science bro.

 

Though it's never okay for anyone to simply start to judge people because of their opinion on certain issues regarding political issues, one thing we should know is that I could care less of what anyone thinks of my position adeero.

 

In addition, Puntland used to be automous state, which was very comparable to Somaliland as far as being self reliant, their elders and educated folks did a good job indeed to set it up, however now its' sacked into the power vacuum of the TFG( Tigray driven entity). It's in fact where Abdullahi Yusuf and the TFG get most of their support, its' where Ethiopian troops enter Somalia when needing to attack Southward, so maxaad ii kala qaybinaysaa waa isla halkii uun. Ina Yey is consider a hero down there....they love their man so much I have to say. Puntland is controlled by the TFG, it's part of the TFG in that sense, it's no longer self reliant autonous state as it was just few years back. That is where I was going with it, you took to totally different direction though.

[Jacaylbaro]

SOMALILAND HA NOOLAATO

[roobleh]

^God is on its side.

[me]

^well atleast its an upgrade from boqorada ingiriiska.