Sh. Sharif at his best--many thanks to BBC

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tolka:

Kaalay, meeshan ileen dadbaa sharciga ka sareeya. Oodweyne's argument looks pretty good and classy; but I thought clan names are not allowed here. I remember I was banned for a lesser offence. Anyway, given the man's weight, I wouldn't be surprised if there are exceptions to the rule.

 

Ninkan inaan isku taataabto marabo nin loo gali karo ma aha!!!

Duqa, waxba constraint ha isku sameynin. Dhiibo your aragti, as freely as saa u rabtid.

 

And noo, qof ka sareeyo ayaaba iska yar axdiga u degan golahaan. Nin ama naag walba has to adhere to those simple site bylaws, called Golden Rules.

 

We cannot always read each posted post. It is not unusual to miss some, including those that supposedly break the site's rules. That is why under each post has a "Report Post" post sign, should a post break the site's rules.

 

Now allow me to read this thread and see if any of the site's laws is deliberately broken.

[Suldaanka]

Hello Folks,

 

It seems to me that since yesterday this argument have moved on with lots of blind alley and all manner of tempting close dead-end being offered as a useful trajectory to which to pursue this debate along with.

 

But, be that as it may (although it's mightily tempting) I shan't waylay the gist of my contention into that cul-de-sac that has been offered in here, at least by many other posters who deigned to deliver to us their painful to watch contrive political wisdom that even intellectually-challenge Mr. Dubya of the current White-House will even find it beneath him due to it’s excessive intellectual flimsiness.

 

And, in here what I am particularly having in mind is to judge the merit of the argument that the likes of dear old Mr. Baashi have decided to slapstick the rest of us with it in here.

 

Consequently, I intend to ignore the usual drivel that has become the modus operandi of dear old Mr. Baashi's debating technique at the moment.

 

Particularly since his turgid act is essentially akin to that of tackling the man – i.e., Oodweyne in this instance – as opposed to the seeing whether one has the wherewithal of kicking the ball in which this debate is made of into a deserving touch?

 

But, since, he elected to borrow a few glib phrases such as the ones that suggest that I am the nearest we in here of – SOL – have to our own version of that partisan blowhard by the name of Mr. Rush Limbaugh, or even worse come to think of it, as someone who could be akin to that other misfit by the name of Mr. Sean Hannity of FOX News, I think, then, a period of graceful silence on his part will do a great deal of intellectual recuperation to his reputation in here.

 

But, suffice of now, being the "operative criteria" of our current debate, I think I aught to ask the indulgence of SOL colleagues, were I to proceed to ignore his tantrum in here and proceed with others, till at least we reach another day whereby we can be of certain that we are having back in our hand dear old Mr. Baashi who by then seamed to have recovered his sense as well as his intellectually coherancy or at least it's ship-shape seemliness.

 

Therefore, till that day is reached lets hope that our Moderator, namely, the said Mr. MMA who also acts (at least from time to time) as our muscle-bound bouncer who stand at the door of this chamber for the good of this delightful company that is call SOL, so that riff-raffs or any other street urchins of the Street will not try to sneak in here, will keep him outside of the door of SOL's political section.

 

Or at least remind him if he could not hold him outside of the gate that he is not any state to partake any debate of this kind right here of SOL’s political section....

 

And that is that…

 

Now, as for the rest…

 

Diktoore Oodweinow,

Awoowe Baashi wuxu kugu maagay waa, adiga oo rer Somaliland ah, maxaa uga hadasha arimaha Somalia.

 

I never thought awoowe Baashi would stoope down to that level. But, as you said, give the old man a time to recollect himself and present an argument and not personality attack.

[Ducaysane]

It is beyond me why would any body is against an agreement that millions of people would benefit from. Is it because some of you here (northerners) want status quo to remain in the South, so you would have a case for independence? I think this agreement is positive step forward; of course, this is good first step of a long and possibly treacherous compromise voyage. The translation of the agreement is kind of murky but we have to start somewhere and this is good starting point.

[Jacaylbaro]

Originally posted by Ducaysane:

It is beyond me why would any body is against an agreement that millions of people would benefit from. Is it because some of you here (northerners) want status quo to remain in the South, so you would have a case for independence? I think this agreement is positive step forward; of course, this is good first step of a long and possibly treacherous compromise voyage. The translation of the agreement is kind of murky but we have to start somewhere and this is good starting point.

Adeer hadaad heshiis gelaysaan yaa idinku haysta bal ?? ,, the fact is that maba heshiin kartaan coz waxba ma maqashaan, is mana dhegeysataan, mana isu debecdaan, dad shisheeye uun baad dabada ku wadataane idinku tiina uma tashataan.

 

Hadaad heshiin karaysaan bal heshiiya ha la idin arkee, not an ink on a paper but the facts on the ground is what i judge.

[Juje]

Originally posted by J.a.c.a.y.l.b.a.r.o:

Adeer hadaad heshiis gelaysaan yaa idinku haysta bal ?? ,, the fact is that maba heshiin kartaan coz waxba ma maqashaan, is mana dhegeysataan, mana isu debecdaan, dad shisheeye uun baad dabada ku wadataane idinku tiina uma tashataan.

 

Hadaad heshiin karaysaan bal heshiiya ha la idin arkee, not an ink on a paper but the facts on the ground is what i judge.

I guess you want us to believe that you are from Costa de Sol..

[Jacaylbaro]

Proof it otherwise yaa juje ,,

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by Castro:

How can you have a cease fire when one of the major parties in the conflict is not a signatory to the agreement? And why is this so different from all the others that came before it?

Originally posted by Castro:

 

Do you recall how long Israel has been saying it does not negotiate with terrorists?

First, this agreement is between Courts and TFG. These two entities, unlike parts/functions that agreed in previous conferences, have significant difference in what system of governance they would want for Somalia. One has Islamic orientation and has post-civil war feel and look. The other is a pure production of Somalia’s 17-year civil war and culture of warlordism. Men of religion make up Courts leadership, while TFG is primarily a collection of warlords/strongmen. The degree of involvement by external actors such as UN and Saudi Arabia is also unprecedented. The timing is also significant adeer. This agreement comes at the time when the mission to oust the Courts and replace it with a secular government utterly failed. In other words, there is an increased need for US and the UN for that matter to save face, and arrange Ethiopia’s exit. Given the substance (and not a mere clan composition) difference between the two, the noticeable international involvement, and the awkward position of the US, this agreement came at a very sensible time.

 

Second, I think you know why alshabaabs group was not a signatory for this agreement, and I am not going to repeat it. Let us examine, instead, if a heshiis between Courts and TFG can come to a fruition absent of Alshabaabs cooperation. I believe it can if the terms of this agreement are adhered to and Ethiopia’s withdrawal is realized in a timely fashion. What would the reasons for continuing the violence be if Ethiopians are withdrawn, yaa Castro? There will always be one group or another that will not agree to any agreement however inclusive it might be. If the agreement makes sense, and addresses the root causes of the conflict, as I reckon this one does, then we should support it. Fact is that majority of Somalis are tired and long for peace. Ethiopia is the big elephant in the room. If it withdraws her troops as the agreement promises, then 50% of Somalia ‘s problems are solved.

 

Oodweyne,

First, easy with your obsession with Baashi’s royal Macawis . You know that a camel herder from Oodweyne Township does not fare well with an urbanite from Kismayo . It’s just not fair adeer. On a more serious note though, remind me last time that you were for any effort intended to bring Somali conflict to an end? You were opposed to the Courts on the basis Islamic extremism. You were opposed to TFG from onset because who was selected as its head. Were you not adeer?

 

If truth were to be boldly told, a man who habitually dwells in past grievances to justify a separatist cause and opposes any effort to resolve Somali conflict in his feeble hope that one day the world might just say enough with this failed state (Somalia) and consider the issue of Somaliland recognition, that man can not offer clothes to any one else’s naked argument for he is truly naked. And that man is YOU, yaa Oodka!

[Baashi]

My man Xiin, awoowe let it slide. Oodweyne is venting and what a better place to vent than SOL forum where spewed cantrabaqash of any sort will find a loyal cheering from some corners.

 

Awoowe his is what Akilli Faratelli the Italian resident there would have called la stessa vecchia canzone The contest between fish eating Kismayo manly man and Camel herder of the frontier twon of Oodweyne is a non starter

 

Enough said.

 

Ladies and gentlemen if anyone ever wanted to see hypocrisy and double standard at work, read this page. The comments posted here are garden-variety dishonest. The nerve of some folks!!!! The nerve!! Look what happens when the TRUTH is subjected to warmongers’ sophistry!! Feel sorry for the naïveté who fall for this gimmick

 

I mean why cry foul? Is it because your poster boy agreed that Somali conflict preceded the Tigre troops presence in some parts of the country and their very involvement in the conflict is indicative of the depth of Somali problem? Is that it?

 

I will have you know that Sh. Sherrif cannot guarantee peace nor can he end hostilities what he can do (actually did), however, is expose the agenda of some of old faces of this conflict. And boy did he or did he not dealt a lasting blow to pseudo nationalists and their ally kelligii-Muslim squad. Absent of valid and reasonable case against the need for negotiated settlement, the warmongers of SOL are reduced to seek shelter in unsubstantiated characterizations: dabodhilif, soldout, and what have you.

 

As to the agreed text itself, awoowe all it says is that Asmara Alliance are open to discuss a path forward and are willing to negotiate with the opposing faction for ways and means of ending Somali tragedy provided that Tigre mercenaries leave Somali soil within defined and agreed time. Given the level of hostilities and the absence of agreed framework in managing the state, Sherrif also agreed with deployment of blue helmets. That’s all it says. Nothing less, nothing more!!

 

Who objects this? The very folks who said that they are against the dirrin process for one reason: Tigre presence in Somali soil which they equated with occupation. Now Ethiopians have agreed to pack up and head west, they cry foul again. They oppose Sherrif now because he said he will hold fire if Tigre’s exit by other means is feasible.

[Baashi]

Kashafa our resident Kelligii Muslim,

 

Awoowe the reason the courts offensive is a war of choice is they said so. They vacated Mogadishu when Tigre merceneries and their guides approached the city. The reason they did that according to their spokesman at the time is because they wanted to spare maatada. Somehwere along the way, they discarded that moral principle -- maatada in loo turo.

[Fabregas]

^^sxb, they(courts) didn't expect that Woyanes would have the audacity to occupy Muqdisho en masse. It was believed that they would show some political restraint (with the advise of their backers), as some people say the TPLF did when entering Adiss Ababa. Some thought Habashis would stay confined to outside Muqdisho, perhaps with a minimum presence, and let the TFG boys run the show. However,they embarked on an ambitious mission of occupying/looting political, religous and historical institutions of Muqdisho. Thus, the uprising by Muqdisho clans and ordinary folks against the occupation made the war one of neccesity and not one of choice. Though some gross military errors were made in resorting to face 2 face warfare with a superior army!

[Castro]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Let us examine, instead,

if

a

heshiis

between Courts and TFG can come to a fruition absent of Alshabaabs cooperation. I believe it can

if

the terms of this agreement are adhered to

and

Ethiopia’s withdrawal is realized in a timely fashion.

If only .....

 

What would the reasons for continuing the violence be if Ethiopians are withdrawn, yaa Castro?

I can't think of any unless someone decides to undertake Operation Dabodhilif Cleanup.

[RedSea]

Originally posted by Baashi:

Kashafa our resident

Kelligii Muslim

,

 

Awoowe the reason the courts offensive is a war of choice is they said so. They vacated Mogadishu when Tigre merceneries and their guides approached the city. The reason they did that according to their spokesman at the time is because they wanted to spare

maatada

. Somehwere along the way, they discarded that moral principle --

maatada in loo turo

.

Both you and the X'man are looking things from the prespective of the oppressors(U.S, Ethiopia and thier lacky' the TFG) and not the oppressed(the somali people).

 

Firstly, there was no choice on the table for the Islamic courts union which said they should either fight the EThiopians and their lackeys or they should keep the hard won peace in Muqdisho. They had to fight when they were invaded and the enemy armed to the teeth was regrouping and planning an attack to force them out of the country. The U.S intellegence as well the Ethiopian army all had a plan from the getgo, because we have all seen how the U.S invovlement bcame apparent almost instantly, that wouldn't have happen unless there was some pre war planning while the ICU were still in Muqdisho.

 

This came when the so call alliance against terrorists funded by the U.S failed in Muqdisho, that's when the U.S switched its sides and focus over to find another way to topple and disrupt what they viewed as radical Islamists getting grip on the country. To them this was a huge threat, that is why they turned their support to the equally corrupt TFG as well, and knowing that TFG didn't have the capibilit to combat the ever growing strenght of the ICU, they found another way to fight what they deemed as radical Islamists on the rise in the horn. And what a better way to combat them somalia' arch rival and cheap money collecting with terrible track record of human rights violation, the Addis Ababa regime. They helped them with the war planing, so while we were saying the ICU is doing great job in Xamar, they were massing troops along the border until finally reports came of eye witness spoting Ethiopion army being in the country. They were the aggressors, they were obstacle to peace from the U.S, to EThiopia and TFG, they are the reason peace hasn't prevailed.

 

 

But that is history at the moment, so let us come back to the moment. I am afraid both you and the x'man have been fed and pursuaded to believe those who are an obstacle course to any peace are the Alshabaab and other fighters in Somalia.

 

If any agreement is gonna be agreed upon which can result some type of positive outcome, they surely things have to be looked from neutral prespective. Which critizes both sides and demands responsibility to be taken by both sides as what has happened in somalia. Nay that is not what happened in Djabuuti. The Islamic courts are made to be the aggressors, the ones responsible for all of this, while the occupation, the human rights violations hasn't been mentioned.

 

It seems as though, they are sending the signal that Ethiopias' involvement in Somalia is legitimate(though not a single AU nation authorized it).

 

A better way to have done this would have been to call each spade a spade. To recognize the fault of the ethipian regime, to recognize the gross human rights violantion it has commited. To tell the somali people(because this is about the somali people remember) that what has happen to them is unfortunate and that Al shabaab must stop the war on invading forces, because the occupation which they are fighting against will be uplifted. But hold on brother that wasn't the case.

 

Ethiopian and the TFG didn't come to the table with sincerity, remember the peace agreement is regarding the Somali people and their future, the TFG claims to represent them, yet you all expect the freedom fighters to make all the sacrifices to this agreeement and except what they are told to except, while the TFG and their allies are made to be the legitimate parties involved. This agreement wasn't fair and the good sheekh out of sincereity signed it, but sorry to say that he was cheated on this, and that is the truth.

[N.O.R.F]

I'm loving the chosen short-sightedness and selective memory by a few folk. Waar ha isku xiiqinee bal yara sabreesta oo soo duceeya.

[RedSea]

The X'man got it wrong this time. He views poeple living abroad as people who could careless. THat is bunch of bull. Actually the people who have it bad are the ones who are abroad, they don't sleep well at night as a result of turmoil in their country.

[ElPunto]

Good to see nothing much changes on SOL politics section