What about the people?

[Baashi]

Originally posted by me:

Baashi,

 

awoowe, tayda waan wadaa. ta kalena nin weyn baad tahay. maanta oo kale ma aha maalintii la murmi jiray, hadalka badan daa, ama la safo walaalahaa Soomaaliyeed ee maanta difaacaya wadankooda ama raac kuwa gaalada ku soo hogaaminaya wadankeena. labadaas mid u dhaxaysa ma jirto.

 

Don't be the jew that stabbed us in the back.Don't pretend to br a friend while creating doubts. Unity is what we need now, not discussions. lets win this war first, then we can have all the discussions we want.

You won the trophy yaa ME. I'm a Jew. How do you guess that. Dayuum!

 

Tell you what! my being with "walaalaha Somaliyeed" by lending my posts in cyber forum in english lingo in what I consider a blunder does not do any good. Neither ur warmongering theatrics here will have any bearings on how the war is waged in the frontline. Capisci awoowe.

 

Take a stand? Very well. My stand is there's a third way of attaining the goal short of waging an impatient war against a well organized standing military with the military and diplomatic baking of powers that be.

 

Jew that buddy.

[Kashafa]

^^Not clear a stand enough, yaa Baashi. I guess what me and others are looking for is for you to pick a side in this conflict and explain why you support it. That side might not be perfect, it might be going about things the wrong way, but you can't circle around the fray and not commit to the success of one side and the defeat of the other. If your stand is both sides are at fault in engaging in a disastrous, senseless war that will have horrible ramifications on the civillian populace, Which side is less wrong ? Which side, although flawed in your opinion, has the best chance of saving Somalia from perpetual civil war ? Who do you want to see on top ? Questions, that must be answered, homes. You and Ngogne are doing a pretty good job of analysing the dire situation back home and showing alternative points of view. That's great but as me said, now isn't the time for academic exercises, you must....must...commit. The stakes are just too high.

 

 

More on that, and why I support the ICU, and earlier Q's later.

[Baashi]

Originally posted by Kashafa:

^^Not clear a stand enough, yaa Baashi. I guess what

me

and others are looking for is for you to pick a side in this conflict and explain why you

support

it. That side might not be perfect, it might be going about things the wrong way, but you can't circle around the fray and not commit to the success of one side and the defeat of the other. If your stand is both sides are at fault in engaging in a disastrous, senseless war that will have horrible ramifications on the civillian populace, Which side is

less

wrong ? Which side, although flawed in your opinion, has the best chance of saving Somalia from perpetual civil war ? Who do you want to see on top ? Questions, that must be answered, homes. You and Ngogne are doing a pretty good job of analysing the dire situation back home and showing alternative points of view. That's great but as

me

said, now isn't the time for academic exercises, you must....must...commit. The stakes are just too high.

 

 

More on that, and why I support the ICU, and earlier Q's later.

Perfect. Your tone has changed a bit. I like it. Still there is a room for improvement yaa Kashafa. Read my posts again. I'm for UIC. I wanted them to win big. Win in the battles they are engaged in at the moment and win the cause they said they are championing for. I also want them to get their sh*t straight. Dude what part of that you don't understand?

 

Let me break it down for you buddy. My support for the UIC stated goals is firm. My views of how best to get to the finishing line is different from the current adopted strategies. The strategy employed to realize that stated goal is open for discussion. Noh? Constructive criticism is not synonymous with wobbling if that is where ur posts are aimed at.

 

And yeah Ngonge is absolutely right when he talks about the lack of clear and winning strategy from UIC side.

[me]

^^^There is a clear winning strategy you just don't want to see it Baashi. The strategy is simple. the strategy is TOTAL WAR. This is not a war for Baydhabo, or bringing back the old republic or even Somaliweyn. This is a war thats much bigger then that. I know you don't want to see it and you don't want to believe it. But this is a war we will win and it doesn't matter how many people die, it doesn't matter if Somalia is invaded or not. The strategy is to trick the Ethiopians to invade Somalia.

 

Wars are not won by playing it safe, allot of risks are being taken, but fortune favours the brave.

 

Ethiopia's strategy is small battles here and there, Ethiopia doesn't want to commit itself in a long war. They know they will loose if they try to occupy Somalia. Ethiopia doesn't have the men, the funds or the material to occupy Somalia. How many men will it take to pacify Somalia? Mogadisho alone needs 100.000 let alone the rest of the country. If America can't pacify Iraq or Israel can't stop hezbollah, I wouldn't bet on one of the poorest states in the world winning a war against a determined Somalia.

 

You say you support the ICU, you support Somalinweyn. Well thats good and you have the right to be critical too, but all that I am saying is, its good to voice your opinions as long as you make it equally clear that you support the end game. You can disagree on the means of achieving that goal ad long as we all want the same goal. A strong, united & prosperous Somalia.

[Somali_Friend]

Originally posted by me:

There is a clear winning strategy you just don't want to see it Baashi. The strategy is simple. the strategy is TOTAL WAR. This is not a war for Baydhabo, or bringing back the old republic or even Somaliweyn. This is a war thats much bigger then that. I know you don't want to see it and you don't want to believe it. But this is a war we will win and it doesn't matter how many people die, it doesn't matter if Somalia is invaded or not. The strategy is to trick the Ethiopians to invade Somalia.

The is a saying in Amharic "yekotun awerd bila yebibitwan talech" roughly translated it means:

She droped what she had under arm pit (held tight), inorder to reach for whats on top of the shelf.

[Alle-ubaahne]

Originally posted by Baashi:

quote:Originally posted by Kashafa:

^^Not clear a stand enough, yaa Baashi. I guess what

me and others are looking for is for you to pick a side in this conflict and explain why you

support

it. That side might not be perfect, it might be going about things the wrong way, but you can't circle around the fray and not commit to the success of one side and the defeat of the other. If your stand is both sides are at fault in engaging in a disastrous, senseless war that will have horrible ramifications on the civillian populace, Which side is

less

wrong ? Which side, although flawed in your opinion, has the best chance of saving Somalia from perpetual civil war ? Who do you want to see on top ? Questions, that must be answered, homes. You and Ngogne are doing a pretty good job of analysing the dire situation back home and showing alternative points of view. That's great but as

me

said, now isn't the time for academic exercises, you must....must...commit. The stakes are just too high.

 

 

More on that, and why I support the ICU, and earlier Q's later.

Perfect. Your tone has changed a bit. I like it. Still there is a room for improvement yaa Kashafa. Read my posts again. I'm for UIC. I wanted them to win big. Win in the battles they are engaged in at the moment and win the cause they said they are championing for. I also want them to get their sh*t straight. Dude what part of that you don't understand?

 

Let me break it down for you buddy. My support for the UIC stated goals is firm. My views of how best to get to the finishing line is different from the current adopted strategies. The strategy employed to realize that stated goal is open for discussion. Noh? Constructive criticism is not synonymous with wobbling if that is where ur posts are aimed at.

 

And yeah Ngonge is absolutely right when he talks about the lack of clear and winning strategy from UIC side.

Baashiyow goormaan ku iri iska daa laba-bogleynta, oo waa diintaadii waxa lagu qamaarayo! Wallee inaad caqli badan tahay, laakiin qaabka aad caqligaaga u adeegsatay ayaa runtii doqonnimo kuugu filan!

 

Dagaalka waa socdaa baashiyow!

[Coloow]

As the situation is today there are only two sides;

 

1) The IUC

2) The TFG and Amxaaros.

 

 

The talk about a third is pure nonsense.

 

We could keep on arguing on who started it, which strategies should have been better, etc but that is history. What we have is an invasion; a war that is raging in the middle of somalia ( people are not fighting on border areas); The people who invited the amxaaro are those who brought us the havoc; and they want hell to continue in somalia so that they could enrich themselves with the few aid millions.

 

But I want to return to the core of the question I posed: What about the hundreds of thousands who live in the triangle of Buur Hakaba- Qansaxdheere and Dooy? You wouldn't see the plight of this people brought forth by the self styled- war correspondents. If yusuf, geedi, Hiraale, Caydid and the rest could make their headquaters say in " Wallo, or Sidamo" these people would have been spared hardship.

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

But I want to return to the core of the question I posed: What about the hundreds of thousands who live in the triangle of Buur Hakaba- Qansaxdheere and Dooy?

Reer Arlaadi iyagaa meesha isdhigay. I remember waaguu Axmed Cumar Jees soo galaaye Baydhabo oo aan ku sugnaa magaaladas, just after couple of days after the new year's day in '91. Kacaanka regime was still in Xamar and fighting for its survival. Muxuu keenay Axmed Cumar Jees? Ka ahayn in uu geelahooda iyo xoolahooda ka dhaco? They kicked him out within a week.

 

Five years later, Caydiid Sr. came, under the pretext of hay'adaha meesha ka shaqeeyo ayaa ciyaalka gaalsiiyo, the unfortunate being he was led by none other than a reer Arlaadi calooshiis u shaqeysto by the name of Max'ed Caliyoow. The real reason he came was because reer Arlaadi aayahooda u istaageen, declaring the second "autonomous" region after Waqooyi Galbeed, the interim "president" being C/qaadir Soobe. Caydiid didn't want to see that.

 

Caydiid's xulafadiis -- this time led by his son -- were kicked four years later, in Juun of '99, which his xulufo and power base never recovered from to this day.

 

Reer Arlaadi should blame none but themselves. Soomaalida maanta socoto walaaloow iyo Soomaalinimo shaleey la isku ogaa ma gartaan, qori caaradiis ayee yaqanaan. Kii wadaadka isku sheegay, kii Amxaarka dabada ka wato iyo kii kale dan lehba maanta waxee usoo wada jeedaan danta "tolkooda," tii dalka iyo dadka guud la iska ilooway. Run hadii la isku sheego waa saas. Hadee Indhamadoowe run ka tahay Soomaalinimo iyo Islaanimo, Afgooye u dhaw inaadeerkiis ku amartaagleeyo, Daafeed saas camal ku amartaagleeyaan oo dhanka Buurhakabo jirto ayee ka bilaabi lahayeen, iskaba dhaaf dhanka kale ee Jubbooyinka la aadin, sida Awdheegle, Qoryooleey, Sablaale, Janaale, Marka iyo Baraawe.

 

Reer Arlaadi nin mas eh marti ka dhigtay. Cabdillaahi Yuusuf may or may not remember tii ku dhacday Caydiid iyo Cumar Jees, waliba ha ogaado Caydiid ka awood badnaa, Eebbaa awood lahee, boqolkiiba boqol, tii ku dhacday kuwaas in uu ku waano qaato ayee ahayd.

 

Reer Arlaadi are very patient, welcoming people, regardless of qabiil iyo wuxuu qofka yahay. Quudato kunool ma'aha, oo masuqmaasuq kunool ma'aha, dowlad laaluushkeeda dad wax ka sugo ma'aha, oo xoolahooda ayee soo saartaan, beerahooda ayee fashaan iyo geelooda, arigooda iyo lo'dooda ayee raacdaan. Dadna kuma duulaan, dhul iyo deeggaan kale ma qabsadaan, xaaraan waa iska yareyaan oo bililiqo iyo maal dad kale kuma noola. Reero dagaalna ma'aha, power struggle iyo xukundoon kor iyo hoos -- mid Amxaar keensaday, midna diin ku gambanaayo -- loo koraayana ma'aha, dalkooda ma burburin, dad Soomaaliyeedna aan kusoo duulin ma laayin. Because of this, reer Arlaadi can live any region in Soomaaliya without dad qabiilkooda weydiinin because sharafta iyo qadarinta ay Soomaalinimada u hayaan.

 

All that, however, has some limits. Markee imaato amartaagleen iyo cagajugleen waa yaqanaan xataa inay ku dagaalamaan falaartooda ha ugu yaraatee. Haduu isku haleynaayo Xabashida, C/llaahi Yuusuf Axmed wuu arki doonaa meeshee geyso, waxaana ula talinaa when that day arrives yuu kabtiisa ka cararin.

 

Nin dhoof ku yimid bee geerida ku xanuun badantahay ayaa la yiri. Asaga iyo dowlad ku sheegiis qabyaalada ilma adeer ku dhisan ayaa martinimadii ku jisaaray, asagaa ka dheefi doono wuxuu arko. Reer Arlaadi may blame none but themselves, but they will not be like bystanders oo dhulkooda lagu hardamo forever. No way. Impossible.

 

Hadee Soomaalinimadii iyo walaaltinimadii isku soo dhaweyska iyo martisoorka ay dadka qabyaalada ka buuxdo, caabudo qalad ka fahmeen and dan ay dantooda ku fashaan noqotay, not for the common Soomaali good, but dan tolkooda iyo laftooda eh, then Soomaalinada burburkeeda ha laga dheefo waxee noqoto, for reer Arlaadi wouldn't be disappointed oo dhulka qeyraadka soo saaro dhulkooda waaye. Hala arko meelee Soomaalinimo ku dambeyso.

 

Runta maalintii la isku sheegi lahaa waaye today.

[Didi Kong]

GB, thats right! ragan ICU strategy baa ka xumaaday! waa laga waaley, they are powerful, they are powerful. Allah is Al-Aziz. Now they fell right into the trap. They are trabb-ed! And you know whose vessels are in the Indian ocean right? Allah aid them. Ameen.

[Baashi]

^Amin. May Allah give them the strength to stay put. Their enemies are numerous, powerful, well off, and well equipped. Allow maciin sii.

 

Me,

 

Awoowe you must be deaf or blind or something. My stand is crystal clear, unshakable, and firm. I'm rooting for UIC. I'm against Ethiopian presence inside Somalia. Just two sentences...about eleven words. Jew that again. Take ur time. Perfect. I hope that bit will easily sink in.

 

Now, "total war" strategy is not something I am willing to support. Sorry buddy. You are full of hot air. Your cyber huffing and buffing ur halaluya sh*t might seem holly to the simpletons in this site but at the end of the day that kinda sh*t won't do a jack or shelter UIC from Habashi artilery or Jet bombardment.

 

Think about it awoowe. With peace, UIC wins big. Time is the essence here. With total war, strategy and guns win. Habasha have them both. The Habasha's strategy is two fold. One is to protect its "friendly" (read puppets) so called government. The other is to weaken UIC's strength by drawing it to unwinnable war in their turf. What that means is it sucks the energy out of UIC. That was the fix. And my boy our UIC walked into the trap just right in. Believe me Ethiopia cannot invade Somalia. What it can do however is prolong the conflict between Somalis. Deny them the opportunity by negotiating with its stooges.

 

Yaa Alle-U-Baahane, magac qurxoone, Kalligii Muslinoooow,

 

You said the war is on. Yes you damn right! Our cities have been bombarded. Tanks are rolling through our tarmac roads. UIC have fought bravely and I can shout Allah Akbar from top mountains of Iceland. That won't shelter them from the Ethiopian Jets. Brother faan iyo tookh aside, they are up against an standing army whose sole purpose is to weaken their military muscle and political influence over a large swath of strategic territory. Ethiopians don't want to invade Somalia. They simply can't.

 

This war should stop and stopped immediately. Why? I tell you why. If the war is halted and ceasefire is implemented today, UIC will win:

 

1. UIC keeps South of Somalia minus Biadowa and Gedo.

2. TFG remains holed up in Baidowa.

3. Ethiopians will be forced to withdrew if peace process track resumes in full speed.

4. Egypt and its Arab League will have a case to make and will be able to help and push Ethiopians back (in diplomatic front)

 

Waryee ma ila socotaa.

 

Caaqil,

Boowe you are bit confused I guess. Yes War is in our hands! Isn't that abvious!! We want to win this one, don't we?

 

In time of war, you need logistics, weapons, makeshift hospitals, fuel, trained and capable commanders, trained foot soldiers, spies, and what not. Without these essentials, you will simply suffer great casualties. Hauling volunteers with rifles and technicals can hold the fort for a while but that's not a winning military strategy, is it?

 

You are damn right, we are in the middle of war. However this is a war we DON'T have to fight today. The third way is this: Call a ceasefire immedietely. Declare ur willingness to take a part any reconciliation process with usual caveat that it must be a one wholly owned by Somalis. What the f** is wrong with y'all. Don'y u see what I see or what?

 

I'm gonna write one more Waxa-la-Yirri article to this effect.

[NGONGE]

Jimaacle,

I take no responsibility for your inability to read, saaxib. But, just for the record (though it’s really pointless) when I mock, I don’t mock Islam the faith but I mock the deluded types of Muslims. There is a big difference between the two, if only you can see it. If it were the clothes that made the men I’d be wearing a general’s outfit by now. So, I humbly request that when you read any future posts written by me you try to read them in that context and don’t let your mind wickedly stray.

 

Caaqil,

 

First let me make a clarification here, I’ve always had a bone to pick with Somaliland (Puntland does not count, for obvious reasons). My fellow Somaliland citizens have bored the hell out of anyone that will listen about the security and peace that place has and used it as the main thing to prove that the country should receive its recognition! I never thought that was enough then and I still don’t now. Bringing peace is good but once it’s there something more tangible has to follow. The Courts, sadly, have not come up with any solid plans or feasible strategies to take Somalia forward. Again, cleaning streets, banning Qaat and the other things they’ve done are merely administrative achievements that can easily be ruined if the political actions to support them are not good enough.

 

Secondly, lets turn our attention to the Ethiopian monster that suddenly raised its ugly head in the midst of Somali political life! Has it really though? Has Ethiopia not been there throughout the past sixteen years? Have they not been backing one side over the other in all that time? Sometimes, ironically enough, they’ve even backed two opposing sides. Ethiopia is not a new sudden enemy. Ethiopia has always been there conducting its proxy war to further it’s own political interests in Somalia. A Courts movement that is only months old should NEVER have picked this fight with Ethiopia at this point in time. It’s a costly, pointless and an un-winnable fight. And from where I’m sitting, the only group standing to lose will be the Courts.

 

In another post of yours you talk about a fight between two sides. The Somalis (represented by the Courts) and Ethiopia! If only things were that simple, saaxib. In fact, if that were the case, you probably would not have heard a single questioning voice in this site or anywhere else. But things are not that simple, are they? Why do you easily discount the TFG in such a way? Why discount Puntland?

 

Fine. Lets us follow your way of thinking and try to see out this war to your wished for end. So, let us say that the Courts have prevailed and defeated the TFG (Ethiopia). Those in the TFG run away out of the country, are killed or (more likely) run to their original areas of Somalia. Now, lets narrow things a little and talk about the president and his Puntland supporters. Will he (and they) give in and submit to the Courts or will they, obviously, turn it into a tribal war and start scaremongering the people of Puntland about this southern tribe that is coming to subjugate their women and children and loot their houses? Is such a scenario really that farfetched, saaxib?

 

It is more than obvious that Ethiopia does not have Somalia’s interests at heart (to put things mildly). It’s also clear that it will need to be dealt with sooner or later (politically or militarily). However, NOW, is really not the time to tackle Ethiopia. I’m not a supporter of the Courts and can not be until I see a genuine effort from them to show that they mean well and are really aiming to rescue Somalia. Of course, because they’ve taken on the Islamic garb, one that tugs at my heart strings and is what I wish for as a Muslim, I’m more than obliged to put aside my cynical nature and hope beyond hope that their intentions are right and their (hidden) plans are successful. However, as things stand and judging by their actions so far, I can’t help but be disappointed. Full unequivocal support requires more than simple proclamations of Jihad and the cleaning of the streets of the capital, saaxib. If you accept these meagre offerings then I truly believe that you are letting yourself down (regardless of whether the Courts eventually prevail or not). It is not about what you feel, it’s about what your eyes can see, ears can hear and logic understands. So far, the Courts have given us nothing but rhetoric. For the time being, I’ll extend them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they’re not that experienced when it comes to politics.

 

Ps

If you notice that I have not criticised the TFG in my replies it is because I truly believe that in peaceful times they really do not matter that much. If the Courts play it safe and go for negotiation, reconciliation and peace, the overwhelming majority of Somalis will (sooner or later) start to fully support them, rendering the TFG null and void. However, in war, the TFG acquires a significance that it does not really deserve and WILL receive tribal backing just because the Courts were the aggressors in this instance. Try to remove yourself from the narrow horizons of a war between Somalis and Ethiopians and maybe, just maybe, you will be able to see the big and ugly picture.

[Cara.]

Keyboard commandos!

[Baashi]

^

 

Ngonge has a good point there.

[NGONGE]

Heh@Cara

 

[me]

Originally posted by Cara:

Keyboard commandos!