What about the people?

[Che -Guevara]

Greater Somalia is closer than close

Aren't we being little too optimistic. There never was or will be a reasonable conclusion to the saga in the horn. The most ruthless will win, and the weak shall remian subserveint.

[Baashi]

Yes Drawish fought the good fight to the end. And yes their stiff resistence compelled the colonialists to excersice a self-enforced policy of restricting their visibility in the urban centers of the country.

 

However, the fact remains that we as country remained under the mercy of the white men until 60's. On the other hand, 1977 war is complete defeat and the sources of top brass rebellion (good excuse of one interest group) against the strong man Inna Siyad Barre.

 

In any case awoowe I'm not selling us off. Today Habasha is inside Somalia killing and maiming Somalis in the full glare of the whole world. Jew that buddy.

 

Waving the good flag from the comfort of ur house is commendable. However that is hardly a concellation to the fighting forces as they don't read these forums.

 

My man if you are really for the war at least do something about it. Send money, go pick ur mindi and join their ranks at the front. They sure can use your support today. Talk is cheap awoowe.

[Baashi]

Che,

 

If Ethiopian constitution grants the green light for any nationalities inside Ethiopia to secede, isn't that an start?

 

In my humble opinion when and if strong Somali state emerges from the Somalia once existed, the folks down there will have enough good reason to assert their rights lil more forcefully than today.

 

A great legal hurdle has been cleared for the folks who reside there. Of course the dictatorship have the means and the will as well to supress the aspirations of the Somalis in Killinka Shanaad. However, the opening is there for them to gradually move the ball forward.

 

That makes the dream closer than close. For the key Somaliweyn demand has been fulfilled. You need to get to educate urself about the stipulation of the Somaliweyn policy as regard to the occupied lands.

[Abaadir]

Baashe has very good points here. UIC lost good chances to solve Somali problem once and for all through negotiations. They always in a attach mode. They should have gone Khartoum talks and stop Ethiopia is in Somalia excuse. Facts remain that Somalis are divided and Ethiopians are militarily and financially stronger. Sidee xeego loo xagtaa ilkana ku nabad galaan. If Somalis solve their problem, Ethiopians can not remain in Somalia

[me]

Baashi,

 

awoowe, tayda waan wadaa. ta kalena nin weyn baad tahay. maanta oo kale ma aha maalintii la murmi jiray, hadalka badan daa, ama la safo walaalahaa Soomaaliyeed ee maanta difaacaya wadankooda ama raac kuwa gaalada ku soo hogaaminaya wadankeena. labadaas mid u dhaxaysa ma jirto.

 

Don't be the jew that stabbed us in the back.Don't pretend to br a friend while creating doubts. Unity is what we need now, not discussions. lets win this war first, then we can have all the discussions we want.

[Somali_Friend]

Originally posted by me:

Baashi,

 

Don't be the jew that stabbed us in the back.

me,

The Jew will keep stabbing you, if you bring the knife and give him your back and invite him to stabb you.

1. Don't give him he knfe

2. Don't give him your back

3. Be honest and transparent of your intentions, rightousness will always outsurvive deciet.

 

You are becoming like the Egyptians. A country that has mastered hipocrisy. A country that refused to accept Palestinian refugees at the height of war, but is willing to declare Al-Umma Al Arabia 24 hours in its media. A country that lives on 2.2 billion dollar Jewish money, but doesn't want anyone to make peace to build their shunty homes.

 

What for do you want the Somali to fight right now? Shouldn't you have the sincerity to tell them one of this:

1. ICU has to be the government for all somalia

2. ICU should have 2.5 or 3.5 of the federal share of power

3. ICU should represent the clan instead of those in TFG

 

what ever your choice is tell the people. Wether man or Allah(SWT) don't accept to be told, I will tell you when I win, now just STFU and fight for me. Thats dishonesty.

 

Forget ethiopia for now, forget Puntland or Somaliland for now, deal with the south of the country, how to bring order and then sit and talk with the rest of Somali.

[me]

^^ Its priceless how a xabash paid to post on Somali forums by the dictatorial regime in Ethiopia, with the nickname Somali_friend is trying to call me hypocrite. Its just priceless.

 

I am not an Arab nor am I Egyptian so I couldn't care less.

 

So xabash tell me, how much do they pay you a month? 50 dollars? 100? I don't think you get more then that, wanna come work for me

 

I know you don't believe what you are saying, they need to hire someone with more faith in the system. Someone thats loyal. You don't write with you heart, you don't argue your case well enough.

 

I would have debated with you if you were any good.

[NGONGE]

What a priceless title for this thread! What about the people you ask!

The people will continue to be trod on, killed, made homeless and humiliated in the same way they’ve been in the past sixteen years. Nothing changed here but the location and the identity of the troublemakers.

 

I personally don’t trust the TFG and have my doubts about their ability to bring peace to Somalia. On the other hand, like Baashe, I have strong doubts about the wisdom of the Courts. I’ve said this before and I’ll repeat it here again. Bringing peace to the capital and surrounding areas is NOT enough. Shouting Islamic slogans whilst letting loose the dogs of war is also not enough. For me (and any sensible unemotional person) to give my full support to the Courts they will have to present a clear, acceptable and workable strategy for saving Somalia. When the first step in that strategy is to conduct war, my optimism about the genuine intentions of these Courts starts to seep away. For if you have the upper hand, have most of the Somali nation behind you (and I’m including many in Somaliland and Puntland here) yet still want to conduct war, a little ugly devil starts whispering in my ears that these ICU mullahs are only interested in war and power and not peace or reconciliation.

 

On another note, I still never cease to be amazed by the duplicity of some of the opinions in here! I could never reconcile it in my mind how people on the one hand get angry about Ethiopian soldiers killing Somali soldiers yet never get angry about Somalis and Ethiopians killing innocent Somalis. Surely you’re either against all forms of murder or you’re not. Is the idea of being Somali bigger to you than the death of the innocents? Why then do you want to be Somali if you simply regard the death of your fellow Somalis as ‘the birth pangs’ of a new Somali republic? And, who are you to sacrifice their lives for this bogus, pointless and silly concept?

 

Ethiopia might be the enemy for some. For me, Ethiopia is irrelevant. My enemy is your uncle, aunt and brother. It does not matter to me if he’s a member of the TFG or the Courts. If civilians are dying because of his rash, ambitious and destructive actions then I spit on him and all those that support him.

 

If you sense anger in my words then you’re not really wrong. I’m angry at the ignorance being displayed by almost all Somalis. Angry at the people that have decided to claim the Islamic faith for themselves yet are not treading carefully and not treating that heavy burden with the respect it deserves. Angry at the pointless ministers, presidents and soldiers that are causing more death and ruin for a goal that will never be fulfilled and an end that will never be reached. The whole thing points to a clear and unsurprising stalemate, a stalemate that both sides will fight hard and cause so many deaths to reach. Today, this whole issue is really beyond discussing. Best wait for the bravado and the deafening din of the cyber warriors to die down before one attempts any sort of rational analysis of this sad situation.

[me]

Oooh what a bleeding heart. Don't try this game NGONGE.

 

On another note, I still never cease to be amazed by the duplicity of some of the opinions in here!

 

Welcome to the real world, where people with different opinions then you live.

 

I could never reconcile it in my mind how people on the one hand get angry about Ethiopian soldiers killing Somali soldiers yet never get angry about Somalis and Ethiopians killing innocent Somalis. Surely you’re either against all forms of murder or you’re not. Is the idea of being Somali bigger to you than the death of the innocents?

 

Hmmm, I would suggest you read the previous posts in this thread. No one is condoning the death of innocent civilians. I have just said it like it is, civilians have been dying and suffering for the past 16 years. Why are some people talking about civilians now and not before. Aren't we civilians? aren't we suffering from this civil war?

 

Why then do you want to be Somali if you simply regard the death of your fellow Somalis as ‘the birth pangs’ of a new Somali republic?

 

You are taking words out of context again, the 'birth pangs' are about the civil war and that its a process that will eventually lead to a Somali government that we have all agreed on. Could we have solved this problem better, YES. In an ideal world our dictator would ahve left, we would have elections and we would get a government by teh people for teh people. I wish we never had the civil war. But like the dalai lama said, When you lose, don't lose the lesson Well lets not loose the lessons of this civil war.

 

And, who are you to sacrifice their lives for this bogus, pointless and silly concept?

 

If Somalinimo is a bogus concept to you, maybe you should come up with an alternative. Its easy for you to say its bogus, but why don't you come up with something better, a concept that treats all Somalis equal and serves all Somali interests. If you rather be a slave to the xabash, then go ahead, if you rather want to live in your bantunistan, knock your self out. Don't say its bogus if you don't have an alternative.

 

This war is about many things worth fighting for. If you want to fight for your country go ahead, if you care about the civilians, well where have you been in the past 16 years? Your answer on that doesn't matter actually, the question that matters is, what will you do for the civilians? No need for crocodile tears NGONGE.

[Somali_Friend]

Originally posted by me:

^^ Its priceless how a xabash paid to post on Somali forums by the dictatorial regime in Ethiopia, with the nickname Somali_friend is trying to call me hypocrite. Its just priceless.

me,

If it makes you feel better talking/writing about who I might be or who I am, by all means. enjoy it. I like to see one more happy person.

 

But never forget this. Your problems the problems of part of your country the southern part will still be there when you stop laughing about me.

It will be a fast and strong fraun.

 

Why don't you try to answer what the ICU wants for Somalia?

1. Do they want to eliminate the TFG, Governemnts of Somaliland and Puntland and make one unitary government under the supreme leader?

 

2. Do they want to eliminate the government from the south and then represent all the south and negotiate with the northern states?

 

3. Do they want to keep the TFG, but the ICU decides and chooses every post in the government?

 

You owe it to yourself and your conscience to answer the question clearly.

That is exactly what Yemen asked ICU. They could or did not want to answer. Yemen then told them, there is no way Yemen can help in any negotiation unless you tell us clearly what your intentions are for Somalia.

[me]

^^ You are so misinformed, it is not the ICU that is fighting this war now, its the Somali people. It doesn't matter where they are all the Somali people are united in expelling the aggressors from Somali soil.

 

There is no need for you to try to represent the Somali people are divided. WE ARE UNITED IN COUNTERING THE ETHIOPIAN AGGRESSION.

 

If Ethiopia was Somalia's friend it wouldn't arm warlords. Ethiopia is Soamlia's worst enemy. Ethiopia has taken advantage of teh Somali civil war and it has created allot fo animosity. Ethiopia's civil war is just staring and guess what, we will be a better friend to Ethiopia, then Ethiopia was to us. You will learn the true meaning of friendship.

 

 

You have posted many irrelevant questions.

 

I have one question for you.

 

Why are Ethiopian troops in Somali territory, why are Ethiopian troops violating international law and breaking UN-arms embargo? WHY?

[Jacpher]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

Angry at the people that have decided to claim the Islamic faith for themselves yet are not treading carefully and not treating that heavy burden with the respect it deserves.

Waa su’aalee dhinac walba ma martaa adi? Not too long ago you were mocking and poking fun at anything remotely related to Islam and Muslims. From Niqab to Hijab Muslimas to a molested Muslim boy to Muslim demonstrators and yet you accuse others of disrespecting Islam? Afkaaga & dhagtaada ma is maqlaan maandhoow?

 

ME: ar kan shibta ugu dadaal nooh.

 

Baashoow: Arrintu quus bey mareysaa. Ina Yusuf waxaa ka go’an inuu tan Melez ka hor mariyo danta guud. Xamarna waxaan Xabash aheynba ma arkaan. Khartuum teedii bey ka badin la’dahay tu kale iskaba daa. Labada dhinacba waa eedeysanayaal ee kii roon reerka ha u haro.

[Coloow]

Ngonge,

 

BRINGING PEACE TO MUQDISHO MIGHT NOT BE ENOUGH IN THE LONG TERM, BUT FOR THOSE IN MUQDISHO WHOSE LIVES HAVE BEEN WRECKED BY WARLORDS IT IS A GOOD START. YOU CAN'T EXPECT PEACE TO BE REACHED IN MONTHS.

 

MANY ON THIS SITE (MAYBE INCLUDING YOU) HAVE BEEN REPORTING ON THE RELATIVE PROGRESS OF PUNTLAND, SOMALILAND ; THE QUESTION IS WHY DON'T WE WANT PEACE TO COME TO MUQDISHO? IT WAS NOT LONG AGO THAT MUQDISHO WAS THE CITY OF "M(ORYANS)" RATIONED AND DICTATED TO BY WARLORDS;

 

MY REASONS FOR SUPPORTING THE IUC IS NOT ONLY BRINGING PEACE TO SOMALIA- BUT THEY HAVE AT LEAST IN WORDS (AND ACTIONS THUS FAR) SUCCEEDED IN GIVING SOMALIS HOPE. AS A I SAID BEFORE, I WOULD CEASE TO SUPPORT THEM WHEN THEY CROSS SOME LINES.

 

TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND MY PERSPECTIVE, ONE HAS TO LOOK AT THE FABRIC OF THE TFG; MANY OF THOSE WHO VISIT THIS WEBSITE HAVE UNDERGONE TRAUMA AT THE HANDS OF THE WARLORDS; CAYDID ET AL HAVE CAUSED SO MUCH DESTRUCTION, DEATH AND DIVISION; YET IT IS AN IRONY THAT THEY SUPPORT THEM BASED SOLELY ON TRIBALISM.

 

NGONGE, ETHIOPIA IS FIGHTING A PROXY WAR; IT HAS SUCCEEDED IN CREATING A BUNCH OF LACKEYS WHO HAVE PUT THEIR POWER ASPIRATION BEFORE THAT OF PEOPLE. THEY FACE SOMALIS; NOW LEAVING ASIDE THE RELIGIOUS DIMENSION OF THIS, ISN'T THE DEFENCE OF YOUR POWER A RIGHT UNDER ALMOST EVERY CONVENTION?????

[Somali_Friend]

Originally posted by me:

If Ethiopia was Somalia's friend it wouldn't arm warlords.

me,

 

That was the first untruth from the "saints" of Mugadishu.

Ethiopia was and still is of the view that the TFG is the best way to reconstitute Somalia. But its the people of Somalia that decide and choose.

 

The warlords of Mugadishu were constantly holding demos against ethiopia, accusing it of being on TFG side.

Not a single warlord from Mugadishu went to ethiopia for refuge.

Ethiopia has never spoken even to those close geographically to ethiopia, unless TFG has cleared and if anyone of them is to visit ethiopia, they will do so only with TFG and as part of TFG.

 

The only ex-warlord that comes and goes to ethiopia on his own is the deputy prime minister Hussien Aiydiid. Well he is the deputy prme minister of a recognized government and elected to his position by representatives of all Somalia.

 

The TFG welcomed the eviction of Mugadishu warlords who were supported by US against the wishes of the TFG and also by extention Kenya and Ethiopia.

It is not ethiopia that supported the warlords, its US. US never supported TFG until the US was left with no friends in Somalia.

Ethiopia from day one was always supportive of TFG and still is. never vacilated or changed.

[Somali_Friend]

Originally posted by me:

 

You have posted many irrelevant questions.

I have one question for you.

Why are Ethiopian troops in Somali territory, why are Ethiopian troops violating international law and breaking UN-arms embargo? WHY?

First I don't think my questions are irrelevant. On the contrary they are the most important questions for any negotiation wether in ethiopia, in America or Somalia.

Those ae also the exact questions Yemen asked the ICU in order to facilitate negotiations with TFG. Why don't you take a try, here they are:

 

What does ICU want:

1. To be the government of all somalia

2. To have 3.5, 2.5 or 1.5 or 1 from the share of power of all somalia

3. To be the only representative of all the south and central somalia and to have 3X 4X or 2X the voice of Puntland in Somalia

 

How can there be negotiations if one cannot answer this question. I know why ICU doesn't want to answer. As soon as ICU tells the truth what they want, they will be spitted out in Mugadishu the next day, because they want something very dangerous that will make somalia irreconstitutable. Thats why they hide behind din even though the people of somalia have not bought the fake Jihad call against ethiopia.

 

Now let me answer your question by a question:

Where are ethiopian soldiers in Somalia? Who is the government of Somalia (it doesn't matter the propaganda about strength)?

 

Hassan Tahir may call himself shiek or supreme islamic leader, but if brought to justice in Mugadishu or Baydhoa, he can expect to see a file from Jijiga for the crimes he committed against innocent people. I hope the prosecutor of Somalia at that tme will allow those crimes to be read and Hassan Tahir made to answer for them.