Peaceful sepration between Somaliland and Somalia is Alternative to war.

[Castro]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

But before I show how unworkable your plan is, not to mention its moral bankruptcy, let me ask you this: where would the dismemberment of this wounded nation stop? Somaliland? Puntland? Riverland? Where and Why, saaxiib?

Kaalay, you've become a once-a-weeker nowadays.

 

Of what moral bankruptcy you speak atheer? What has morality (or even love) got to do with this? Hurry up and start explaining. I've no patience nowadays.

[xiinfaniin]

d/p.

[xiinfaniin]

^^

Mayee adeer I am busy nowadays, and I couldn’t participate as I’d wished.

 

Laakiin Castrow, to suggest breaking up a nation just because a politically motivated, and clannishly driven segment of some of our northern regions want so is a sheer intellectual dishonesty. When one garbs a naked secessionist argument with an attractive rationale gown, appeals for sympathy and understanding of their case, and strips the more solid counterargument against this northern separatism from its ever-appealing cloth of religion and nationalism, that person is sure begging for correction. Do you not think so yaa Castro? Of course one hardly needs to resort reciting unity verses from the Qur’an to counter secessionist argument but one also is prudent and wise to have that option on the table. After all, the divine source is the ultimate basis for our argument, politically or not. Let me be clear: although I don’t want this argument to center whether seceding from a nation could be sanctioned and justified by our religion, as the matter at hand is more complex than that, I do fail to see any political and moral value in dismembering a wounded nation. I find those attempting it to be a misguided lot as it neither yields political advantage for them nor brings stability to the people affected. I don’t see it as a reality that we have to live with either. I see it as a undeveloped political gimmick that amuses no further than the quarters of those triangle cities.

 

On the other hand, I do deeply appreciate the value of unity. That Islam supports it is a debate that only the ignorant would have. So yes religion has a bearing here saaxiib. But asking the moral bankruptcy part is just sidestepping the real issue, maaha? The real issue here is whether secessionist movement can put forth any tangible legal, moral, or cultural rationale for this dismemberment effort that they are so fond of!

 

Waabaa England na gummeysatey war ninweyn oo xishoodaa lasoo shirtago maaha, i say .

[Castro]

^ I hear ya awoowe and we are not just encouraged to stay united but we're told in no uncertain terms. “And hold fast, all of you together, to the rope of Allah, and be not divided among yourselves…†[Aal-Imraan: 103] is a good example of where this is said. But the case of Somalia is the same of the entire Muslim nation with borders everywhere. Wounded or not, Somalia is not unlike a child that must learn that fire burns before it avoids sticking its hand in it.

 

If I were to make a list of grave issues that face the people (Somalis), unity and secession would not be in the top 5. And for that reason alone, I'm not even remotely concerned, any more, with secession and what not.

 

Prioritize, I say.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Prioritize you say, and I hear you load and clear. It’s it that has been keeping me off line nowadays saaxiib .

 

I also pointed out that the efforts of these secessionist movements have not translated in to reality yet. It does not worry me a bit, and I have long decided to watch the practice of hatching that imaginary egg of theirs. But what brought me back is not that I am gravely concern about dismembering effort and its danger per se, but Paragon and his pregnant words is. No body would ever dare to contest, I thought, with the lead secessionist movement and its ambassador at large, Tolstoy , in the art of building a castle in the sky and presenting, quite strongly, a favoring critique for its architectural beauty. No more! Here we have our prudent Paragon buying into the secessionist argument. Here I see him give credence to their clannish effort. So mine was a way of injecting a dose of real analysis in to the equation, and letting good Paragon explain to the gallery what dividing a nation entails. That kinda wisdom yaa Castro---the Xiin’s wisdom.

 

P.S: chatting with SOLers on trivial matters is not on my priority list. Not in the top when in an ascending order, not in the bottom when in a descending order. It is just not there. Haddana waa I kan. Bal wax ka dheh , adeer.

[Castro]

^ I'm taking a few weeks off. Will see how many Kings and Kongs LSK lets in as members during that time.

 

But in the meantime, you may just find your way like Paragon did, old man. It's not championing a secessionist agenda, atheer. It's about facing reality on (and off) the ground.

 

Perhaps you care just a little more (or less) than I do.

[Paragon]

^^ I am also going to be alittle busy for the coming future, Insha-Allah. But b4 I I disappear, let me depart this home-truth to our good friend Xiinfiniin.

 

Brother Xiin, have you, in your years in Somali politics, asked yourself a very revealing and simple question? If you are a critical analyst, you would have long ago asked yourself: In the name of the so-called Somali Nationalism, whose unity are we concerned with and whom will nationalism benefit most?

 

If you were sincere or honest enough with yourself and us, by searching with yourself for the answer to the question, you will get new insights in the way the management of the Somali people is structured out. The ill-informed and averagely brain-washed Somali nationalist will have heroes such as Axmad Gurey, WiilWaal and Sayid Cabdulle Xassan, latterly to some Siayd Barre was a hero of some kind. The national literature was full of Raage Ugaas, Ismaaciil Mire and Sayidka. The clever person's deductions will unearth the true meaning of what nationalism meant in Somalia, it simply meant Glorified D--rodism. That is all it was. So the search for the NFD and the Zone five was motivated by this filthy glorification of the Tribe. Even today, the main reason the D--rood and Is--q squabble over the secession of some land is this legacy of appealing to Tribal Filth. Neither D--rood nor Is--q, as long as they rally half-baked individuals for the tribal cause, will ever know let alone grasp true love for the country and nation as a whole.

 

Somalis are ruled by the clan, that is a fact. Anyone who denies it, is deluding him/herself. I for one acknowledge that and wish to kill the currency with which the clan has taken hold of our psyche. So long as we force people into things like unity or fake nationalisms, they will resist by resorting to the clan time and again. The very creation of Puntland and Somaliland are very much necessitating the use of the clan in more ulgy and detrimental ways than before and the sooner other regions of the country taste the bitterness of separating themselves as clan fiefdoms, the better

in realising and going beyond the fake offers of the clannists. The clannists have no future and they know it. However, until all Somalis become Transcendentalists that see beyond the clan, the future will remain deem. I am one of the many transcendentalists who want change, who have detached themselves from the clan and opted out of it forever. I support secessions not because I think they are clannish or not, but I strongly support their universal right to pursue their autonomy or independence. I am in support of Puntland, Riverland or Jubaland for that reason and that reason alone. So Xiin, I will leave you to tow the line of the veiled D—rood sold as nationalism.

 

PS: I mean no disrespect to any clan or tribe, but the analysis reveals many things that have remained hidden for centuries. A new beginning is of paramount importance.

[AYOUB]

^^^ According to SOL logic; those warlords in Xamar and Baydoa stand for "somalinimo" whereas Somalis in Djibouti who sent medical supplies for the injured dont. Do you get it Paragon?

[Suldaanka]

Xiinow

Adeero... arinkaagu wuxu iskugu biyo shubanayaa maahmaahdii; Habar ayaa iska hawhawleh, heelada inoo tuma .

 

Are you sure you are not the one housed under those cards you were talking about?

[xiinfaniin]

^^

 

Paragon, so the argument of Somali unity is akin to thinly veiled clan elitism? Is that it, yaa Paragon? Adeer xaggee ila aaday! Ka buldheh, I say!

[Paragon]

^^ Sadly yes. I am surprised you haven't realised it sooner. In what state of mind have you been living, Xiin? It is worrying.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Meeshaan hanaan gobanimiyo hadiyad eegaayeey

Haf miyaad la tiri xaydh sidaad haan ku dhayanayso!

 

Paragonow, with all due respect, your argument has no core and greatly lacks substance saaxiib. I reread your entire argument and I failed to see anything that’s worthy of response really. My interjection was primarily to see if you could competently back those assertions, not with equally empty slogans, but with germane and organized thoughts. And see how you disappointed the gallery walaal! With all the rationale and reasons for succeeding from a failed state, or as good Tolstoy would call it, exacting a permanent divorce from a troubled union, you desperately pulled a clannish card! Oh what a disappointment! I wonder what else you have in store for us.

 

You suffer me say that I oppose secessionist not because I wish to preserve clan majesty or anything of that sort but I truly believe that it’s morally wrong, politically unnecessary, and culturally pointless. All the arguments put forth for its defense, even in their strongest form, represent a peculiar mixture of artlessness and endless sophistry. Yours, needless to say, is the worst I have seen. You see good Paragon you can’t argue, with sanity that is, that defending Somali unity and its territorial integrity is tantamount to preserving clan history! Alas, wisdom has never been a one-day’s purchase!

 

---Wondering how Paragon concluded that the great warior Ahmed Gurey was from the D clan ---

[Castro]

^ I too wondered how Paragon concluded that. It's not that anyone knows for sure but I've heard Sheikh Axmad Gurey being claimed by just about every Somali clan.

 

Xiinow, atheer, clannism is at the core of both Somali "nationalism" and the impending and prior secessions. It's just the way it is. I'm not sure, however, that preserving a certain "clan majesty" is Somalism. It's a part of it, but not the whole thing. Paragon is right. There are many majesties being preserved here. Look a little closer and you will see. Not even the glorious Islam could rise above the clan majesty and you think nationalism is not clan based? Come on, awoowe. That much is elementary.

 

Finally, just how did you, along with the good Sheikh Ahmed, end up in the D column?

[xiinfaniin]

^^Look good Castro, we are not debating whether clan is central to the Somali politics. It is, and I have no quarrel about that. What I can’t swallow is the notion that defending or preserving Somali Union is clannish exercise, albeit disguised as Paragon claims! Do you seriously believe that? How could it be? Good Paragon suggests the whole Union exercise benefited one clan. Is that so? And if it’s who is that clan? Paragon rises to the pulpit again and answers: the D clan. I call it utterly simplistic. He even goes further in his rubbish (sorry, but it is truly a rubbish) and suggests that even wars that were initiated by Somali state were clannishly motivated, assuming of course that a great majority of those Somalis who are out side of the Union are the D clan. Another rubbish, I say. The national heroes that were taught in Somali schools were not really heroes, good Paragon lectures, but a collection of D men whose names were celebrated to enhance the image of D clan. That’s a Spanish bull’s shit, or dibi frenchi digadi, it is not adeer?

 

^^^That’s an argument I like not to have good Castro.

My relation to the D clan is immaterial to know. Though I don’t quite know how this debate even got here one thing is clear: it is not the stuff of majesty that we accustomed from good Paragon.

[Castro]

Paragon wrote earlier and I skimmed over:

 

The clever person's deductions will unearth the true meaning of what nationalism meant in Somalia, it simply meant Glorified D--rodism.

I disagree with this. Somalinimo is not D clan majesty (though some D'ers would love it were it so. ). That much Paragon is off the mark on. But there are many majesties being preserved here. The D just happens to be one of the largest. Even within it, however, there are quarrels that good Paragon couldn't easily explain away with his thesis.

 

In my view each clan (and sublcan) is doing what is in its best interest and if that means their interests coincide with those of another clan, then they will proceed accordingly. It's not about A's, B's or D's. It's about the generic clan. Nationalism is not dead atheer, as I said in another thread, it never was born in Somalia.

 

Let each clan stick a flag on its spot. I'll be in Houston, TX, while they sort out the many border conflicts that will surely come about.