Peaceful sepration between Somaliland and Somalia is Alternative to war.

[Xudeedi]

Paragon, I agree with Xiin. That is the most painful argument I have ever seen. You equate Somali unity to tribalism whereas Sub-lands and the dismembering of Somalia appear to you the best way forward for the Somali people.

 

I don't know why the achievement of some individuals/heroes can be steered into a created myth when in fact that past achievements, some unheralded, came naturally. You have to know sections of our people, or clans, have come/came into contact with civilization longer before other sections. Thus, Sultanates, the rise of nationalism ,etc. pre-nationalism era of Ahmed Gurey, were all dominated by sections.

 

Now this is where things change on the wrong thinking to you and the secessionists that you see it coming again in its former shape or type. The OBBIA sultanate, for instance, ruled as far s Bulo Burti and Belet Wen. It was one of the three protectorates that existed prior to Somali government. Every thing took on a wrong turn after the WWII when Italy was defeated and its influence weakened.

 

If you ask questions like where was the first place to be bombarded, the answer that comes first to our mind is Taleh, then Gidali, then Badhan. But, It was Bargal and Alula in the North Eastern region that Italians used air bombardment in April 1901 in a punitive expedition to stop the penetration of the North Eastern Sultanate into Obbio. The colonial administration also created another Protectorate, the Nogal protectorate after the Illig Agreement with Sayid in which he was given an expansive territory and access to a port. It later collapsed after the English retreated from the interior of British Somaliland to the coast for the lack of a defense budget for its colonial interest.

 

[A. Baldini, Somalia Italiana, in Enciclopedia Italiana, XXXII, 115."]

 

All of these protectorates are defined by their colonial history.

 

Somalia is indivisible no matter how long

[SOO MAAL]

In the name of the so-called Somali Nationalism, whose unity are we concerned with and whom will nationalism benefit most?

The very creation of Puntland and Somaliland are very much necessitating the use of the clan in more ulgy and detrimental ways than before and the sooner other regions of the country taste the bitterness of separating themselves as clan fiefdoms, the better

 

I am one of the many transcendentalists who want change, who have detached themselves from the clan and opted out of it forever. I support secessions not because I think they are clannish or not, but I strongly support their universal right to pursue their autonomy or independence. I am in support of Puntland, Riverland or Jubaland for that reason and that reason alone. So Xiin, I will leave you to tow the line of the veiled D—rood sold as nationalism.

Paragon, you seem really confused and self-defeating because your statements are contradictory, you arguing that you are against nation-state of Somalia because it’s allegedly a D-rod agenda, although the charge is unfounded and in fact it is insult to majority of somali people, the 13 somali youth who established the SYL, Somalia first president and father of modern somali nationalism honorable Osman Aden Adde, Abwaan Abdurahman Timacadde, and Abwaan Abdulaahi Qarshe

 

“Qolaba Calankeedu Waa Caynee

Inagaa Keenu Waa Cirka oo Kala e

Aan Caadna Lahayn Een Caashaqayee

Xidigyahay Cadi waad noo Ciidamiseeâ€

 

You can accuse regime tribalism, but it’s unheard to accuse nation tribalism

 

 

While you support tribal-states like Awdalland, Somaliland, Puntland, Jubaland, and Riverland, is it because you support the use of the clan in more ulgy and detrimental ways as you noted

 

If we implement a policy to divide Somalia into mini-states as Paragon suggests, we will confront a more complicated problem than unity vs secession dispute; this more dangerous crisis is How do we divide Somalia???, the mini-states will fight over territories and Somali peninsula might experience endless wars between newly formed mini-states, Somaliland-Puntland dispute is already the first such wars. In the future it’s very possible to witness a endless wars in Somali peninsula and Horn Africa, between awdal vs northwest, northwest vs north central (SSC), northest vs hiiraan, bay/bakol vs shabelle, upper jubba vs lower Jubba, etc

 

I believe the division of Somalia into mini sub clan-states will only makes situation worse, if we say Somalia will only be dominated by sub-clan, well the same will be true for mini clan-states like Somaliland and Puntland, we can say Somaliland and Puntland is dominated by x and y sub-sub-sub clan and its really in some degree true. What going on Mogadisho for the last 17 years the war is still raging between diffrent sub sub sub clans

 

How you see the future of Somali peninsula in general?

[RedSea]

Originally posted by Maakhir:

But, It was Bargal and Alula in the North Eastern region that Italians used air bombardment in

April 1901

in a punitive expedition to stop the penetration of the North Eastern Sultanate into Obbio.

REALLY!! Did warplanes existed back then? Besides the history has Taleh for being the first place in Africa to be bombarded from the air.

 

You can probably tell us more of where you have gathered that peace of history from.

 

In addition, regardless of where you stand on the Somaliland issue, you must admit that war between Somaliland and Somalia is highly evidable, that is the main point that author is trying to make in his writing.

 

Whether he might be viewed as traitor or not, he chose to go where he could get some green from and that happens to be in Somaliland right now more so than other regions such as Puntland.

 

The point of the article isn't trully focusing on seccesion, but rather that Ethiopia-Eritrea type of conflict is evolving between Somaliland and Puntland which could danger his region Sool more than others. This is clearly evident through the situation in Sool right at this moment.

 

The discussion should be what to do about it, rather than saying Somaliland is to blame and this and that. What can we do about it, what is the solution to this problem?

[RedSea]

Paragon,

 

I agree with you. Anyone who applies religion into this as though whatever Somaliland is doing is SIN and everyone else who is for "unity" is righteous is utterly wrong. Abdullahi Yusuf, the President of TFG is a warlord for your information folks, so are you telling me his cause is righteous one. Same can be said about Riyaale Kahin and Somaliland.

 

The fact of the matter is it's all for anything that benefits the well being of oneself. National pride,love, and unity has eradicated from the heart of all Somalis. The only thing left is Qabiil and yes nation can be based on qabiil, such the TFG's is divided among qabiil not based on leadership qualifications.

 

Codetalker, Puntland didn't donate any weapons to the TFG. The weapons were from Yemen for Abdullahi Yusuf and his government through the Bosaaso port. That is just fact, I thought you were following the reports,

[Xudeedi]

Red Sea, You right it wasn't air bombardment but a land and sea bombardment on the coastal towns of Bereda and Bander Kasim. Again, I have made another error since I was writing from my memory. Bargal and Alula weren't bombarded but were where the colonial army confiscated 500 rifles and 30,000 cartridges. Every thing then was resolved at the Convntion of Bender Olok on 18 August 1901.

[Paragon]

Adeerayaal, inkastoo aan rabey in aan faallo tafatiran idiinkaga soo gudbiyo waxyaalaha aan soo qorey, hadaba kadib markaan akhriyey nacnacleynta qabyaalladeed ee aad soo daabacdeen, ayaanba isaga gaabsadey jawaabtii dheereyd aan idin siin lahaa. And as I said before, like or not, Somalia nin waliba xaqqa uu leeyahay illaa loo aqoonsado, dulka uu deegaan ahaan leeyahayna ka tallintiisa loo qirto (weligeed qaysan-naanshoba ha keento e') wax nabad la yiraahdo Somalia dhadhamin meyso. Marka raggiinan uu dhiiga beelleed kacayow, iyo kuwiinan kale ee aan xaqiiqdo la soconow, dhugta ereyadeyda; waa hadaad daacad tihiin, hadii kalese, iska wada beenta aad isku maaweelisaa. Good luck.