Puntland no longer recognise Geedi as PM...

[miles-militis]

It is almost always astounding to observe youngsters passionately wanting to engage in matter beyond their realm of module. Neither the proponents nor the opponents on this debate seem to have the finer details of the rupture so as to form informed opinions as to who is on the right or not. The latter would sling any that which might stick whereas the former willingly bears the full brunt of that which comes the way of he who is indefensible. Whether Adde is a scalawag on a robbery spree as he lines up his deep pockets and those of his kinsmen [as some incl. Paragon suggests], or Geddi is genuinely a courtly leader with the best interest of his people and country at heart [as our designate progeny Mr Wind Talker, would have us believe] shall become common knowledge in the nearest of future. Then, why not ponder over the nature of the dispute before passing on judgment as to who is on the right or not. Why the fresh, puerile 'mal' across the pond.

 

And to the ever duly righteous Code – ever heard of the the concept of “game theory†- I shall paraphrase it here as I wish not to commit modern plagiarism ‘efforts of each in a group for the wellbeing of the whole benefits the group. Equally important is ...efforts by the one for the wellbeing of the one [and only one] benefits the whole far greater than the sum of allâ€. Look up Dr Nash in your local in the economics section for further reading on the said theory. In other words, what is against the interest of the one, is against the interest of the whole, for the whole means nothing without the one. Let me put it in a language you could relate to - ever heard of the expression “geel jire geela maalintiina waa wada jirtaa, habeenkiina waa kala jirtaaâ€. See the knot, old boy? Guess not, since the good lord has bestowed not ‘geel’ upon thy abject soul.

 

Tata...

[Paragon]

^^^ Mr. You haven't said anything new there except pigeon-holing me as being someone who is against the gains of Cade's kinsmen, when infact I am legally minded as far as this issue is concerned. I have always spoken of the contractual irregularities that are prevalent in the deals between Cade and Range. I am not sure if you read my other posts properly, but I tend to mention what I believe to be everyone's wrong. In general I am interested in how both Cade and Geedi support the country's Charter when it suits them or discard it when it doesn't. Just as Codetalker rightly wondered, I wonder too for how long the interests of few men can come before the constitution itself. Even more ironnically, I am quite disappointed to see fellow users of this forum (whom I believed to be suitably educated) blindly and un-thinkingly vouching for men who are at odds with the country's very Law. It sure is a misfortune.

 

PS: I have had far too many Foreign Policy Analysts (structural neo-realists mostly) as boring lecturers and I have perused through the classic Theory of Games and Economic Behaviours , but still, I find all theories except Security Dilema, extremely dull. So if you are interested in these kinds of theories, I will recommend to sink your in teeth into: Zero-sum/non-Zero-sum theory or Absolute and Relative Gains theory, or Positive sum and comparative advantage. Interdisciplinary as these theories may become latterly, they never explain the legal limbo either Cade or Geedi is in.

 

[EDIT]

http://www.goobjoog.net/

Tue, 23 May 2006 14:37:00 14MayGMT

 

Xukuumadda Federaalka Soomaaliya oo war ka soo saartay khilaafka kala dhaxeeya Puntland

 

Xukuumadda Federaalka Soomaaliya ayaa faahfaahin ka bixisay khilaafka dhex yaala Maamul Goboleedka Puntland, waxaana lagu caddeeyay war cad oo laga soo saaray xafiiskiisa in xukuumadda ay ka codsatay Puntland inay hakiso baaritaanka iyo soo saarista Macdanta iyo shidaalka inta laga soo saarayo sharciga Kheyraadka oo dhowaan Baarlamaanka la hor geyn doono.

 

Wasiirka Warfaafinta Maxamed Cabdi Xayir ayaa shir jaraa’id oo uu ku qabtay magaalada Baydhaba ayaa sheegay in kadib markii ay dagaallo ka dhaceen degaanada Majiyahan Ra’iisal wasaaruhu isagoo gudanaya waajibaadkiisa qaran qoraal u qoray maamulka Puntland kana dalbaday in la hakiyo howsha inta sharci laga sameynayo, wuxuuna sii raaciyay, in heshiiskii labada dhinac hore u gaareen loo baahan yahay in waxyaabo laga bedelo.

 

Wasirku wuxuu sheegay in eedeymaha ay Puntland u soo jeedisay xukuumadda ay yihiin waxba kama jiraan, ayna xukuumaddu isku dayeyso in la hagaajiyo xiriirka dowladda Federaalka iyo Puntland.

 

Dhinaca kale waxgarad iyo siyaasiyiin ka tirsan beesha Muddulood oo maanta shir ku yeeshay Muqdisho ayaa cambaareeyay warkii ka soo yeeray madaxweynaha Puntland ee lidka ku ahaa Ra’iisal wasaare Geedi, waxaana lagu sheegay in Cadde Muuse uu si toos ah u weeraray shaqsiyadda Ra’iisal wasaaraha, taasina aan la qaadan karin.

 

Odayaasha Beesha Mudu---d waxay ka dalbadeen beesha Maj----n inay cudurdaar ka bixiso gefka Cadde Muuse muddo 24 saacadood ah, waxayna xusuusiyeen in madaxweynaha uu ka soo jeedo beeshaasi.

Xaal baada Cade raacay!

[Fiqikhayre]

^We couldn't care less! They have prooven to us, that they're not up for the job. Better hire another one from Hussain Aydiid's clan, they atleast got some powers in Mog.

[Paragon]

^^ We who? Your clan? Or some other political entity I haven't yet heard of. The 'we' you speak of is not the constitution of the country that I so much care about, and so long as it is not that, to hell it that 'we'. I could, I would throw it to the dogs.

[codetalker]

Originally posted by Sakhar:

^

We

couldn't care less! They have

prooven

to us, that they're not up for the job. Better hire another one from Hussain Aydiid's clan, they atleast got some powers in Mog.

"We"...as in the those who invented the "we are the Rulers and you are the Ruled" mentality but ultimately ended up in qaxootiville? :confused:

 

You'd think people learn from the past.

 

Originally posted by samuraiW:

Whether Adde is a scalawag on a robbery spree as he lines up his deep pockets and those of his kinsmen [as some incl. Paragon suggests], or Geddi is genuinely a courtly leader with the best interest of his people and country at heart [as our designate progeny Mr Wind Talker, would

have

us believe] shall become common knowledge in the nearest of future.

I personally wouldn't have you (or anyone else) believe anything. Believe whatchu like coz I care less.

 

But I'll assure you that Cadde Muuse is on a personal treasure quest to enrich his clansmen at the expense of Reer PL as a whole.

 

"If" the PL-Range deal was in the best interest of Reer PL, we would've seen them pour out onto the streets of Boosaaso, Laascaanood and Galkacyo. We would've seen Reer PL protest against Geedi's "interference" but have they? No.

 

SomaliTalk.com on Puntland media:

 

...warbaahinta Puntland oo laga dhigay mid ay maalulaan

wasiiro

si aan looga hadlin xaqiiqada jirta, waa sidii xiddigtii Oktoobar oo Puntland ka bilaabatay mar kale taas oo ah dib u dhac weyn, fisqiga oo sii kor dhaya oo ay dawladu wax ka qaban.

Oh, shucks...what was that excuse used against anyone who says anything critical of Puntland? Oh, yeah...they're "against" the development of Puntland, blah blah. Let's also remember the role played by SomaliTalk.com in the Samsam Ducaale case.

[miles-militis]

Paragon – did not mean to pigeon-hole you mate as I see no reason for doing so --- and having looked back at the thread, I notice it was Maakhir who in another thread honoured us with a quandary along those lines of thinking, and not you, thusly an err on my part.

 

I could not possibly know who is on the right at this stage for privy I am not [nor are you sir, unless of course you wish to leg it] to the contended contractual details between the disputing parties. And as any reasonable person would, one would have hoped you would not have rushed into judgment. It is possible both to be right on merit without going into technicalities and off-the-cuff type minutiae. Perhaps once the details are being had, then we could have a meaningful discussion, till then tata ...

 

Oh, the high almighty Paragon, here is a quandary for you - if ‘the we’, our young Sakhar speaks so passionately about is so despicable in your equation, and you would not even feed ‘the we’ to the dogs, then what good is the constitution you so fervently worship?

 

Should not ‘the we’ [supposedly the people] be more important than the ‘constitution’ [contract by, for and amongst ‘the we’]. See the knot, here old chap?

 

____________

Code – I am in such a cheery mood today, and wish to lend you my good ear for gentlemanly sake. What prove is there, or has come your way, to have convinced you to reach the following conclusion:?

[/b]“...But I'll assure you that Cadde Muuse is on a personal treasure quest to enrich his clansmen at the expense of Reer PL as a whole.â€[/b]

Please, I beg of you genuinely to see if you could convince me Adde is here for the picking! And please do not make a complete *rse of yourself in seeking refuge in the good old adage “waxaa la yidhi". For once, be good a chap and score the winning goal for the home team.

 

Tata ...

[art]

Somali premier promises to resolve dispute with Puntland over oil deals 286 words

24 May 2006

04:14

BBC Monitoring Africa

English

© 2006 The British Broadcasting Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

Text of report by Somali independent Shabeelle Media Network website on 23 May

 

A press statement has been issued by the Office of the Prime Minister of the Transitional Federal Government [TFG] of Somalia in Baydhabo [alternative spelling Baidoa] town on the differences between the TFG and the Puntland administration over natural resources.

 

Reports say the Puntland administration accused the TFG of violating the agreement which the two sides agreed upon.

 

The TFG minister of information, Muhammad Abdi Mareye, outlined the purpose of the press statement and explained the Puntland accusations and the TFG stand on the accusations.

 

The minister of information dismissed the Puntland accusations, adding that the existing minor differences would be ironed out and the relation between the two sides would be restored.

 

In a statement he issued, Puntland President Adde Muse criticized Prime Minister Ali Muhammad Gedi over a statement he issued recently in which he said the Puntland administration had no mandate to sign contracts with foreign companies to prospect for natural resources [oil and minerals] in Puntland-controlled territories.

 

In his statement, the Puntland president said he would have no links with the TFG government as long as Prof Ali Muhammad Gedi was prime minister.

 

The Puntland administration had recently signed an agreement with an oil exploration firm to prospect for oil and minerals in Majiyahan District of Puntland, which led to clashes between militias from the district and the Puntland police force. The Majiyahan District militias were opposed to the Puntland administration's decision to allow foreign firms to carry out oil exploration in the area.

 

Source: Shabeelle Media Network website, Mogadishu, in Somali 23 May 06

 

a47805a5

[art]

http://www.voanews.com/mediaassets/english/2006_05/Audio/mp3/MALLARD_SOMALIA_PUNTLAND_23May06.mp3

 

interview regarding gedi and Puntland

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

Geedi has truly proved that he is a flip floper. One time he believes that Somaliland could go its way another time he is for Somali unity. One moment he approves the agreement between Puntland and range, another moment he does not. In the once more he says that he will do samething about warlords in Mogadishu and than back tracks.

 

Cade has proven that he knows nothing about federalism.

States within a country can not conduct their own foreign relations or agreements. No federal, that I know of, does this. Regions within a country can take back "Kalsooni". Basic logic dictates that you can not take back what you did not give. a prime minister, spacially the kind we have, needs the "kalsooni" of the people, his president and government and not regional governments. It is nice for him to have the "Kalsooni" of every person and entity but not necessary.

 

Either case, this is a prime example of how Somali leaders never look for the greater good of the people. Hurumarka puntland waa hurumarka Somalia. This benefits everyone. Granted, legal procedure was ignored, but this is win win deal for everyone and geedi, if he realised that have ignore, for the greater good, this side stepping of legal procedure by the puntland administration. Why, with all the problems they must overcome, must they create for themselfs, nonexistent problems?

[Liqaye]

Embagathi process.....

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by General Duke:

Unlike established states, it is Puntland that supports and funds and even welcomed the TFG to its country, unlike other parts Puntland has been the main pillar of support for the TFG.

 

The MP's ministers and leaders from Puntland have supported the government from day one.

 

I welcome this move, for Geedi mistook Puntland for something else..

Replace Puntland with Jawhar you could be easily mistaken for the other useful idi*t Mo Dheere. Who will the Ciyaalasuuq politicians hit next?

[Paragon]

Oh, the high almighty Paragon, here is a quandary for you - if ‘the we’, our young Sakhar speaks so passionately about is so despicable in your equation, and you would not even feed ‘the we’ to the dogs, then what good is the constitution you so fervently worship?

 

Should not ‘the we’ [supposedly the people] be more important than the ‘constitution’ [contract by, for and amongst ‘the we’]. See the knot, here old chap?

SamuraiW, are you familiar with the Human Security concept proliferated by Ken Booth's Critical Security Studies called "Emancipation". Emancipations takes on many 'particularisms' that divide one tribal or political community from others. This particularism may be promoted by a national state, a regional state or as it occurs now in Somalia, tribal states. Thus what is needed here is not a 'we' that draws on the similarities derived from clan affiliation, but a 'we' that emancipates groups of people or individuals from this division and to a national identity. If the country needs anything; it needs a national unity and the only Law that proposes such unity is our national constitution. So please don't be alarmed by my dislike for particularistic, exclussive 'we-ness' that only serves to create more rigid division within my countrymen and women. On that note, I wish you will familiarize yourself with Critical Security Studies since you've already touched on some IR theories like the game theory. Let me conclude with this passage from one of the essays I wrote some years ago as it may seem quite revelant to this issue.

 

By rejecting territorial exclusivity associated with the integrity of the [regional] state, critical international theory proposes a theoretical position committed to the goal of emancipating the entire human species. It seeks to facilitate moral and political community not just by extending it beyond the frontiers of the sovereign state, but also by deepening it within those frontiers. This extension and deepening of security is concerned with ‘overcoming intersocietal estrangement and establishing a system of generating political security based on universal emancipation’ (Devetak: 168).

Such a system would require forms of political organization, which are ‘less insistent on sovereignty and more tolerant of the sub-national and transnational loyalties on which future sites of organizational power many come to rest’ (A. Linklater 1995a: 195). Underlying critical international theory’s critique of the sovereign [regional] state is a critique of all exclusiveness and association because of the results they bring. Therefore, where there is exclusivity and particularistic association, there remains insecurity, CSS wants extension and openness.

PS: I will send the whole essay to you via PM, if wish to peruse it. And also, my position in this discussion has not been arrived at through haste, it is a decision I have made due to my belief that there are some legal discrepancies present in the dealing-making of Puntland of Somalia and Range Resources. As far as the personhood of Odey Cade, PM Geedi and H.E. President Yussuf are concerned, I have no intention to call their charactors into any disrepute. They just happen to be our leaders, and because they are our leaders, their decision-making and policy developments are a matter of national concern. Mine is a natural duty to look after our nation's interest and to make sure it is constitution is upheld. As for Puntland state of Somalia, it is the Perfect Examplar of regional state in Federal Somalia. The scrunity its leader's policies face should only be counted as being a support that has a vigilant and informed mind. Where Puntland goes other federal states will follow; it is thus awfully important that Puntland becomes the good example it has been during the pre-TFG time. This is why I deplore Cade's action to disown the PM of the federal Republic of Somalia. All is meant for good results.

[General Duke]

Oh well it still continues. Puntland has severed links with Geedi, thats that. The PM intended to use Puntland as an excuse in not dealing with the warlordsof mOgdaishu. He broke the agreement that he signed 8 months ago.

 

Geedi is in a heap of trouble, and the Puntland deal is still on, no matter which clan claims which area and regardless of all the hype on the net.

 

Ayoub,

 

That was funny, well kind of.

[miles-militis]

My dear Paragon – Familiar, I am with the concept. Valid points, you raise, albeit the theorem upon which your departure hinges reveals certain elements to which whilst one could aspire, one could also observe where it yields to criticism. And despite the inherent defects, one of which I shall see to, here is where you and I differ in principle. Whilst the concept of Human Security, Ken Booth’s Critical Security Studies in particular, is principally admirable, as you seem to have been besotted by it, here lies the flaw in my opinion with respect to Somalia and its embryonic, if distinctively peculiar, form(s) of governance, or there lack of.

 

You see, the thrust of the said theory like many others command state characteristics to be in place, hence favouring nation states with coagulated national structure in quest of institutional modernity in the context of current world economic phenomena – globalism, if you may. Such nations for which the said theory might benefit provided it could be configured in a culturally posteriori format, possess that which is prerequisite for nation states: distinctive state symptomatics incl. Institutions, symbols along with polity and organisational structure adhered to and identifiable with by all groups (this includes 'the we' you so piously abhor). Unfortunately, the opposite is the case in Somalia, thusly defying the most basic principle of the said concept along with a host of other brilliant nation state constructs none of which are applicable herein. Admirable, indeed. Aspiring, by all means. Functional, unfortunately NOT. Which is why in the case of Somalia, ‘the individualistic we [clan]’ must be satisfied with its sensitivity being observed first and foremost if ‘the congruential we [national]’ must be attained, for the latter requires the former’s exclusive submission and credence before the latter could be realised. How could one aspire to the welfare of the whole whilst subverting the eudaemonia of the one that which postulates the whole - it is beyond me. And I hope you see where I am going with this [i wish to come back to further elucidate this point should you fail to grasp it.]

 

Now, if we fancy to dream, by all means let us do so. If, however we wish to deal in the currency of realism, actuality and functionalism as we aspire for a nation state, which I trust is what ‘we – citizenry’ all desire, then let us apply conceptual isms to better understand variables and factors that precipitated the situation that prevails in Somalia today, and not attempt to cure the malady of Somalia without fully absorbing the underlining, indicant symptoms and fillings, for doing so is akin to one falling prey to the daemons of oneself in trying to rescue licentious mortals. If it is Utopian nation state configuration that which is being desired, where the individual loses significance over the retention and realisation of a symbolic nation state, I am afraid I shall embark on destitute journey of my own to an island of my own with laws of its own.

 

As for state-federal relationship, what some might view as a problem as the case might be between Adde and Gedi despite who is on the right or not, I see an opportunity of working out particulars of state-federal relations - who calls the shots where and on what terms, so to speak. It is unchartered waters demanding assortment of orders with clear heads and minds. And I remain in total agreement on the matter of precedence in the case of Puntland with respect to state-federal relations.

 

There shall come times when clashes shall transpire, and people shall switch sides as seen fit, it be perceptions of their interest being jeopardised or marginalised. Condemning them or questioning their nationalism in the event of such occurrences, which is what you, Mr Paragon and our progeny Mr Code had done here, is most definitely not the kosher.

 

As for criticing leaders, by all means, please do as it is within your natural right, as you quite rightly put it, to do so.

 

I shall leave there,

Till then, tata...

[KEYNAN22]

Originally posted by art:

http://www.voanews.com/mediaassets/english/2006_05/Audio/mp3/MALLARD_SOMALIA_PUNTLAND_23May06.mp3

 

interview regarding gedi and Puntland

Is this serious, is this a joke? Please tell me this is a joke??

 

Oh wallah we are doomed, Wallahi billahi we are doomed as Somalis!

How is it possible in these days and age that a high positioned minister such as Ghedi could say such a thing as " he him self (Abdullhi yusuf) is puntland...depending on large soldiers as puntland" and the incompetent prime- minister goes on saying " I'm highly sceptical because that would be the end of Abdullahi Yusuf and his so-called government"

WTf?

 

Seriously what kind of prime-minister in history has ever shown such weak loyalty to his government, as saying in public "his so-called government"?

This is disgrace and a great scandal it only displays how weak this government is, and the whole country as well! I say all support to Cadde muse, he seems to be the only rational figure in this drama.

 

F#ck somaliweyn, its just a dream, its own prime-minister doesnt even believe in it!