Relocate TFG parlaiment to PL

[xiinfaniin]

^^Sharif is the president

 

Meeshii isaga hurda boowe, waa qaddar mina Laahi waxba lagama qabankaro, you know

[Gabbal]

Not feasible and highly dishonest to even mention it. The legitimacy of any Somali government rests on taking control of Mogadishu. Moving thousands of kilometers away from the golden nugget does nothing to strengthen or legitimize this government. It just makes it even more irrelevant. Unless one has given up hope of TFG political victory and now wishes to legitimize their own tribal entity before the whole venture is discarded. In which case, the issue revolves around "honesty".

[xiinfaniin]

^^What ever, old Gabal.

 

What about Ceelwaaq? Jawhar? Beledweyne? You see, it does not matter as long it is in Somalia.

 

I get the political feasibility thing, which I addressed it in my previous posts, but this revovling around honest? That I dont get it.

 

But again, you are Gabal, are you not?

[General Duke]

Mogadishu is not sacred I don't know when Gabal came in but as usual added nothing new.

[Gabbal]

It is a harmless observation Xiin, put your defensive cloak down. Also you are missing the point. It does not matter whether it is Ceelwaaq, Jawhar, Kismaayo or anywhere else. Legitimacy solely rests on what this government achieves politically and militarily with respect to Mogadishu. That old city on the Benadir coast is the key to the whole puzzle, everything else is obsolete. It is irrelevant whether that Parliament can sit peacefully in Baydhabo or Boosaaso for a hundred years. This government is now in Mogadishu, let it pacify it and clean it up. Any step away from that position is plain and simply failure, it retards the whole process.

[Gabbal]

Originally posted by General Duke:

Mogadishu is not sacred I don't know when Gabal came in but as usual added nothing new.

I am afraid Mogadishu is sacred my friend. It is time for you to stop viewing this is as tribal competition and admit the reality. Mogadishu is 5X more important the whole of Puntland, Somaliland, Jubbaland, and whatever else is out there. A central entity that presides over Mogadishu can impose its will on Boosaaso but an enity from Boosaaso will never be able to impose its will on Mogadishu. This is the reality whether you dig your head in the ground or not. Instead of viewing this from tribally tinted lenses, wipe your heart free of enmity and view that old capital of ours as much yours as anyone elses'.

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by Gabbal:

It is a harmless observation Xiin, put your defensive cloak down. Also you are missing the point. It does not matter whether it is Ceelwaaq, Jawhar, Kismaayo or anywhere else. Legitimacy solely rests on what this government achieves politically and militarily with respect to Mogadishu. That old city on the Benadir coast is the key to the whole puzzle, everything else is obsolete. It is irrelevant whether that Parliament can sit peacefully in Baydhabo or Boosaaso for a hundred years. This government is now in Mogadishu, let it pacify it and clean it up. Any step away from that position is plain and simply failure, it retards the whole process.

Actually you are the one missing the point of this thread, injecting silly observations of yours that is neither here nor there. Mogadishu is important but pacifying it will take time and to say that the only way this government’s measured is to gauge whether it tames this global movement is a defeatist talk. Also political legitimacy is not wholly contingent up on Mogadishu awoowe. That is the old way of thinking. Mogadishu is not the city it once was and many Somalis do not live in there any more. To the contrary if TFG can show that it can operate outside of Mogadishu that it self will garner legitimacy and support from the places it matter. Although I realize that it is not politically feasible now to do what this parliamentarian is calling for, I would have appreciated it if it were actually done.

[Som@li]

So when will they move? It should be fast before another suicide bomb, Mogadisho is not secure.

 

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

^^Sharif is the president

 

Meeshii isaga hurda boowe, waa qaddar mina Laahi waxba lagama qabankaro, you know

, this is true, Sharif is the President, even if he rules one block. That is very hard to comprehend for some pple.

[Gabbal]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Actually you are the one missing the point of this thread, injecting silly observations of yours that is neither here nor there. Mogadishu is important but pacifying it will take time and to say that the only way this government’s measured is to gauge whether it tames this global movement is a defeatist talk. Also political legitimacy is not wholly contingent up on Mogadishu awoowe. That is the old way of thinking. Mogadishu is not the city it once was and many Somalis do not live in there any more. To the contrary if TFG can show that it can operate outside of Mogadishu that it self will garner legitimacy and support from the places it matter. Although I realize that it is not politically feasible now to do what this parliamentarian is calling for, I would have appreciated it if it were actually done.

Developing an air of patronization misleads you into wrongly judging the impact you are having awoowe. There is nothing "silly" about my observation and you should appreciate why I chose not to expand on it. I believe it sums up mightily why you debase the argument for a national government by pandering to or supporting at least in so far as tribal objectives are fulfilled or are synonymous with the existence of such an entity. I disagree fully with you arguing the TFG would be more legitimized by operating outside of Mogadishu. The TFG does not need to be legitimized anymore then it already has. What more legitimacy does it need? What more legitimacy does the Somali government which has garnered the most amount of legitimacy since the overthrow of Siad Barre need? This government needs to show something for its legitimacy and moving away outside of its priority area zone, namely the city of Mogadishu, delegitimizes it. Anyone who does not realize this does not have the interest of national government at heart and this where honesty becomes the issue. Are you for a Somali government or are you for your tribal area? By moving away and arguing in favor of such a development, one needs to understand the only legitimacy that will be garnered will fall squarely on the area the entity moves to temporarily and not the entity itself.

 

I will personally sit here before you and say if the TFG moves away, the powers that be will have written it off completely. That is if it is able to move without their blessing at all. The powers that be are already disappointed and have no hope in the institution of the TFG under its present leadership as capable of advancing the cause of Somali national government in Somalia. The only point that makes the present TFG bearable is it still fulfills the face of the "other" in the spatial warfare that is designed against the armed Islamist movements and containing this spatial warfare within the city of Mogadishu, the most important prize in the whole civil war, keeps legitimacy bestowed no matter how far it might have receded after the TFG under Sharif was exposed for what it is, worthless and ineffective. A move away from the spatial importance of Mogadishu delegitimizes the movement you claim to support entirely.

 

Save the "global movement" talk. Somalia is no longer a priority for first-rate counterterrorism primarily because Al Shabaab's influence is overstated. A movement that rules the southern side is not capable of overrunning a force of 4,000 AU peace-keepers. Militarily there is no more fear of Al Shabaab from the West. As long as the policy of containment is achieved, the powers that be will continue to find ways to pit Al Shabaab against the Somali people while pointing to a spatial dominance of Mogadishu as fruits of that endeavor. Puntland and other part of Somalia are irrelevant to this central strategy. You are a pawn in the game awoowe, you are not the game.

[Poker]

Originally posted by General Duke:

^^^Adeer dont delude yourself, Puntland does not care for Sharif and his nonsense. His opposition to the Galkacyu deal and his utter failure to even keep a district in all of the south has made him a laughing stock in Somalia.

 

Puntland needs to consolidate its position as a secure, stable state of Somalia.

 

Again adeer, if the status of the capital will be giving to Garowe, then by all means lets move.

Respect your beloved president son!The blue flag you're waving starts withthe Sharif and ends with the sharif and his government. You're after thought!

[xiinfaniin]

Horn you said, nay swore, many things before, so I shall not pay attention to the honest thing.

 

Firstly, we are talking about the legislative arm of the tfg, not the executive. The executive is safe, and does not have to worry save from distant mortars that hardly hit the target. So easy with the alarm you are sounding as if one is calling for the government to relocate from Mogadishu.

 

Second, you said this:

Somalia is no longer a priority for first-rate counterterrorism primarily because Al Shabaab's influence is overstated.

 

alshabaabs influence is not overstated. It’s real. It’s global as well. For Somalia, talk of terrorism is not a political tool to gain support from the west, as you seem to imply. It’s real. Look no further from what happened couple weeks back in Mogadishu.

 

As for the other assertions you made, well they are just assertions.

 

The irony is that you seemed to be worried about the legitimacy of an entity you oppose .Believe me if TFG bases its parliament in another city, it will benefit it, not harm it. This is not a idle talk; it worked before.Any rationale person would see the benefit of having the parliament work in a safe environment awoowe. I can see you have a problem with PL serving that function, lets send them to Caabudwaaq awoowe, ok

[Gabbal]

Poor you sxb, employing highly symbolic and decorative words such as "legislative" and "executive" with respect to Somalia's transitional government!

 

And no, I am not at all worried about the TFG. As an institution, I am apathetic to it considering I have no hope in it. If I had hope, it was long dashed by the kind of leadership displayed by those propped up in its highest echelons. I merely wished to relay why your argument is not compatible with both the reality on the ground nor the strategic perceptions the entity you support should be giving off. Moving the parliament is a retardation from what it should be pursuing, namely a legitimate government governing from the central capital city of which it is already situated in.

 

As for your last comment, I will merely dismiss it as a red herring although I do wish to inform you Caabudwaaq already serves as the headquarters of the armed Ahlu Sunnah movement; the same movement the president of the TFG outraged by labeling them "clannish forces".

 

alshabaabs influence is not overstated. It’s real. It’s global as well. For Somalia, talk of terrorism is not a political tool to gain support from the west, as you seem to imply. It’s real. Look no further from what happened couple weeks back in Mogadishu.

The consensus is Al Shabaab is not a threat globally and the world is not as interested as long as the problem is "contained", which it is for now at least. This is why it is not first rate priority and why the present TFG does not have the necessary and imminent support it did, say, during the time of its formation in Djibouti.

[GAAROODI]

So puntland has the right to lead all somalia right??

 

 

;looooooooooooooooool, walahi these people make me laugh.

 

let me ask you, what makes it your right to lead all of somalia?

 

is it your divine right?

 

loooool, walahi i think those stories that your parents told you when you were younger really got to your head saxib,

 

those tales of we were this, we did this and we ruled that.

 

loooooooool, the truth is, you had no role in Somalia's history, had no nation of your own like the people of Mugdisho or Somaliland who have had there own states in the past.

 

further more, you and your kin have never contributed to the national ideals of the country, the very nothing of somaliweyn and somalinimo and re-unification, not to mention the first somali nation who gained independence were all Somalilanders.

 

Did your people fight for Djibouti...nooooooo !

 

Somalilanders fought for the independence of Djibouti, did you fight for the independence of somali galbed, the largest number of regiment for the ethiopian war were from hargaisa,burco and somalilander hawd areas of ethiopia. The very war was run from hargaisa.

 

so stop talk absolute crap..like you usually do and tell me what make you have the right to rule. When Somaliland gave birth to every thing somali, politically, nationally, culturally (music and poetry), not to mention ideology.

 

Puntlands right, i will tell you puntland right, its right and the right of its people should be to take the boats back to the toilets that jabarti once washed for the arabs.

[Che -Guevara]

^Your st*pudity amazes me.

[Chocolate and Honey]

LOl. War raga hala kala qabto. The only people making considerable points are Xiin and Gabal. Both stands are worth consideration: If the TFG moves, are we throwing Modisho to the wolves(Shababs and co) or are we strengthening the TFG? Whichever way, Mogdisho is too important as it is the capital.