What’s on the reconciliation dirin?

[Kashafa]

The old fart is but one man. he can die any minute! What then? Who are you guys gonna blame next? If willing, the concerned parties can use Uncle Sam's fears to address the reconciliation format

You give the old fart(lol, I like that) too much credit. Pimp Daddy Zenawi has a line of willing stooges ready to work for him. And any single one of them, secure in the kursi of absolute power, is enough to carry-out the Etho agenda in Somalia. I'll throw out the names of the most well-known Somali ahem er 'politicans' currently operating in Somalia(there's a wealth of qualified honourable men in the diaspora), and see if you can find one who wouldn't sell his family, let alone the Somali nation, down the river for personal gain. Find one, who has a inkling of Somalinimo and walaal-tinimo. Find one, just one, who isn't completely in the pocket of Adeer Zenawi.

 

Aight, ready ?

 

Cabdullahi Yusuf.

Cali Gheedi.

Hebel Gacmodheere.

Hebel Qeybdiid.

Hebel Dheere.

Barre Hiiraale.

Cade Muse.

Hebel Riyaale.

Hebel Yalaxow.

Muuse Suudi( ).

Aideed Jr.

 

 

So as you can see, Baash Muhandis, the issue isn't about reconcilliation vs Muqaawama....the issue is: THERE'S SIMPLY NOBODY TO TALK TO (lightbulb!!)

 

If you honestly expect the aforementioned men to sit down on a dirin with the Muqaawama and negotiate with good faith and look out for Somali national interests, well, deluded is too gentle a word to use.

 

If you agree with me that they are b.astards(figuratively speaking) who are motivated by greed and power-gain, then you must know that you're advocating total surrender when you use the wonderfully-sounding phrase reconciallation process.

 

Simply put, adeer: There can be no reconcillation while Xabashi boots tread on Somali soil. There can no reconillation where you're expected to disarm and surrender before you're given chance to attend the dirin party. Once at the party, you are staring smack-dab at the barrel of an AK-47 wielded by a Xabashi maggot.

 

And they speak of reconcillation. Isqancis !!!!!

[Kashafa]

Originally posted by Cara:

1 million VC, anywhere from 2-5 million Vietnamese civilians and comparatively few US troops died in the Vietnam War. It may have been humbling for the US, but it was catastrophic for Vietnam. Raising the specter of Vietnam is a scare tactic in the US, but not particularly inspirational for anyone else methinks.

2 Qs for you Cara

 

a)Are there any ideals worth paying a heavy price for. Yes or no. If yes, I'd like you to state them please.

 

b) Have you ever held a discussion with a Vietnameese indiviudal about the war, the heavy civillian casualty, the atrocities committed by the occupying forces, the inherent ugliness and savagery of war, and finally whether he/she thought it was worth it ?

 

I have held that discussion and I'll have you know that the fighting an occupation, with all it's sacrifices, is a universal position common to all(ok, make that, most) human beings.

[Cara.]

Originally posted by Kashafa:

2 Qs for you Cara

 

a)Are there any ideals worth paying a heavy price for. Yes or no. If yes, I'd like you to state them please.

 

b) Have you ever held a discussion with a Vietnameese indiviudal about the war, the heavy civillian casualty, the atrocities committed by the occupying forces, the inherent ugliness and savagery of war, and finally whether he/she thought it was worth it ?

 

I have held that discussion and I'll have you know that the fighting an occupation, with all it's sacrifices, is a

universal position common to all(ok, make that, most) human beings.

A. There are some ideals I'd be willing to fight for. But there are no ideals that I would volunteer other people to die for, particularly when other people happen to be citizens of a poverty stricken nation that has endured 16 years of civil war. You see, you ignored Ms D & D's very important point that it's not YOU who has to sacrifice your life when you agitate for war. Jingoistic chest-thumping behind a computer screen does not convince me that you have ideals you are willing to die for, unless you're penning hurried messages in between skirmishes with the Xabashi. If that's the case, my humble apologies.

 

B. No, but I see you have. I would be more interested in what the 2-5 million who died during the war have to say. Alas, it's only survivors with faulty memories who get interviewed though.

 

My point isn't to question the possibility that there's a cause worth fighting for, I just dislike facile comparisons bandied about but given little real thought. We don't want a Vietnam War.

[NGONGE]

Khashafa,

 

We agree on one part and disagree on another. I'm telling you that if those opposing the TFG don't wise up they will be destroyed. I don't at all support the TFG but unlike you I'm being realistic here. You can pound your chest all you like but when all is said and done the fight your propose is lost from the outset. Sad but true.

 

When one suggests that you 'fight another day' the logic behind that is that, possibly, on another day you MAY have some power and backing to fight with. Right now you really have nothing but some confused 'national' anger and a bit of Islamic zeal. This is, truly, is not enough to win a REAL fight with those you oppose.

[Castro]

While my mind is with Baashi and my heart with Kashafa, my matako is far too comfortable on a couch in North America.

 

[Ms DD]

I know how you feel Castro. That is exactly my predicament. Real people are being destroyed day in and out. If it aint the bullet, it is the diseases. We need to wisen up and learn something from the Jews. We as a Muslim are back in the stone age when it comes to political activism for our own ideals, we simply dont care (which is basically being lazy & no excuse) however our Jewish brethren are leagues ahead.

 

They dont try to beat the system by force, they infiltrate and take over. Then beat you at your own game. Hats off to them as they have the political system cornered. With all their expulsion from countries and the scars of the holocoust, they appear to have risen, with all that behind them. I aint advocating that we do what they do i.e oppressing others to acheive your goals but I love how they beat the system and turn situations into their own advantage.

 

However this mentality of violence and killing each other has never gotten the Palestinians, Kashimiris, Chechneyans, Iraqis and Afghanis very far. We must be smart and play the system. We cant beat them with violence, for they are mightier and stronger than us. So lets have a dialogue, try to plant seeds within the government, campaign for your policies, get more people on your side and change the system within.

[Faarax-Brawn]

Jingoistic chest-thumping behind a computer screen does not convince me that you have ideals you are willing to die for, unless you're penning hurried messages in between skirmishes with the Xabashi. If that's the case, my humble apologies

Hold up there people, Advocating and voicing an opinion for a cause doesn’t equate to chest thumping. The position held by Kashafa & the anti TFG brigade is the same one expressed by the fighters on the ground.

 

This doesn’t make one "an arm chair general"(if I may borrow your word here Cara), its merely just debating and articulating a position.

[Castro]

^^^^ Tell em atheer. Supporting the resistance is "chest thumping" while supporting the treacherous regime is to be politically savvy?

 

What's wrong with this picture?

[Faarax-Brawn]

Originally posted by Castro:

^^^^ Tell em atheer. Supporting the resistance is "chest thumping" while supporting the treacherous regime is to be politically savvy?

 

What's wrong with this picture?

It’s a defeatist attitude, a resignation on their end.

 

Or it just could be the new rhetoric from our resident fence sitters also known as sympathisers.

[Fabregas]

Willl anyone in armed opposition to the Ethiopian regime be allowed to attend the meeting? I forget they are all either on the run, dead or still fighting. Still the grand "reconcialition" meeting will a field day for the international media and Meles Zenawi. Many patriotic songs will be sung, lots of flag waving and the hugging of old warlords turned buddies. Other than that none of the things on Baashi's list seem reachable. Somaliland will not attend thus you can forget about that. Moreover no decisions will be made on Somaliland from Muqdisho. No Islamists or any other people in armed opposition to the occupation will attend a meeting which is guarded by Ethiopian troops. Of course i would love for to bea peaceful settlement and a withdrawl of foreign troops. However, i consider myself to be a realist and the situation on the ground tells me that force will be used to settle issues in Somailand. The T.F.G came to power by force and not negotiation. They are and have attempted to remove all their enemies by force. In other words, who are they going to do reconcialition with, when they have vowed to remove all those opposing them by force? Likewise the other side has from day one taken a firm stance on the presence of foreign troops inside Somalia.

[Baashi]

Busy day @ work...bear with my incoherent rumble...Kashafa is for reconciliation if Habasha backs up their gear and heads west. Is that what I’m hearing from you? Not bad, not bad at all. We’re making progress. You are for reconciliation if that particular condition is met, right? Just making sure!! Super! Now, how does one get the Ethiopians out of Somali soil without creating sh*t storm? Can you make their stay painful? Oh sure! At what price and to what end though?

 

The difference between the posters in this thread (the ones you thought inay isku camirayaan) and you is that they don’t want another sh*t storm unless there’s plan that can assure them that this downer however difficult and painful it may be at th end of the day will get us grab the golden cup and save the day.

 

It doesn’t do any good for anyone to have provoked and furious well equipped and well trained soldiers take their anger out on the innocent in essence owning the neighborhood and demolishing properties and spilling blood with no resistance on their way. Kashafa that sort of insurgency and that sort of resistance is not only suicidal but it’s also the most stupish thing one could ever dream off…lead the enemy right to ur doorstep and go awol…what da f** is that sonny? Is that Islamic to you? Is that Jihad? Ya won’t be there to face it I know and I respect your frankness in admitting that one…but why do you support that sort of suicidal kamakazi urban warfare?

 

Again how to kick the Ethios out? Ur answer: fight them…is that what I’m hearing from you again? Yeah right… who will do the fighting awoowe? Shabaabs? Or the sub-clans who are trying to avenge for their fallen men? Or perhaps an alliance formed by the two? What happen to the 8 million Muslims on whose behalf you’re fighting for; presumably all for the Shari’a and against the invading infidels?????? If they take this fight seriously they can get this fight to another level ya know? What ya make of their indifference Kashafa? C’mon tell me buddy!

 

You’ve invoked Vietnam as if Uncle Sam boys are in the line of fire! Are you comparing these third grade boys with no command and control, no logistical supply, no safe-haven, no leadership, no grass root support nada nothing to mighty Viet cong or the Taliban lions? Ya gotta be kidding kidos! Granted Uncle Sam is beatable but remember what ya have on the ground is Geddi/Yussuf sub clans supported by Habasha militia!! What is your freaking plan coz these boys won’t do and ya know it!!

 

Remember Most of us are for free and reconciled Somalia, Somalia that faces its daemons, Somalia that swallows its pride and braves a temporary downer in the short term, Somalia that is erected on reinforced slab on top of compacted ground so it can stand for generations to come. Let’s not confuse the issue of viability of this resistance operating in feuding and fussing clannish society and taking on well financed and well supplied multinational forces aided by Somalis TO the need of kicking Tigre outta Somali soil. We’re in agreement on the latter…we differ the keyfiyah on the first…ya hear me Kashafa…don’t forget that crucial point. Ma maqashay awoowe:

 

Bahalyoow ma ciil baa?

Nin baksaday* ma fulaybaa?

Boqol aan u turihayn,

Kan beegsadaa ma geesaa?

 

*Baksaday = gabaday

 

There is wisdom to be absorbed from these inquiries!

[A.J.]

11. Somaliland secession issues (address their fears – give them incentives)

 

SXB, What do you think Somaliland is? A dog who which you can wave a bone to and expect to come running?

 

People who are a too ignorant to the truth aren’t going to get anywhere with Somaliland sxb,

 

The Somaliland people are strong willed and there is nothing that anyone in Somalia, Ethiopia or the whole world can do to change their minds. No incentive is big enough for Somalilanders to give up the independence they worked so hard to earn and get. Only those corrupted money hungry morons like Buuba and Kaluun will come running when you offer ‘your incentives’.

 

This reconciliation attempt I think will be another farce with no really beneficial outcomes to Somali’s in Somalia. This is largely due to the fact that even the issues that are to be discussed, if your list is anything to go by, is to far-fetched and brings the phrase ‘‘trying to walk before you can crawl’’ to mind. You can not discuss issues like Somaliland’s Independence and the Puntland-Somaliland dispute when your country is being run by Ethiopians and money hungry stooges lie Cabdulaahi Yusuf and Maxamed Geedi. Somalia first needs to sort its own internal problems out and we all know those problems are huge and take a lot of time, effort and co-ordination to sort out. Co-ordination is key as at the moment people like you have your priorities mixed up.

 

You need to worry about your own house first before you start talking about the grand house of Somaliland.

 

The Somaliland people are celebrating the 16th anniversary of their independence and there is no way that independence is ever going to be surrendered again.

 

I do applaud you for your efforts to regain peace in Somalia

[xiinfaniin]

^^ !

 

Wallee shiddaa taagan!

[Baashi]

^Wave the flag and save your hot air for another cyber ku dirir aight. Malaha xaafada waxay kuu sheekaysataad run mooday...war reer Somaliland waa reer Somalida ka tirsan...hadday xaafadooda nabad ka dhaliyeen dee good for them...laakiin wax badan baa naga dhaxeeya...oo lama kala go'in wali...jeer kala go' rasmi ah la helo...wacade dirrin ina rag waa ku sheekaysan!

 

Camel Boy,

What ya know about realist yaa geel jire fawqal geel jire? Realist examines the situation and doesn’t go for fishing when hurricane Katrina is in the offing!!! Over forty thousand Tigre strong supplemented by seven thousand clan militia supplied and supported by the most power full nation in a divided clan crippled society is what you are dealing with awoowe!

 

The issues you are dismissing are the core Somali issues. If Sherrif can make up with Inna Aideed tell me why f* he doesn’t deal with Geddi? Is that directive in Wasaa faat…don’t f** get my nerve ****** ***** ******* ah! Waa la dirriraa bay maqleen…war maatada ha laynina.

 

[ May 19, 2007, 02:09 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[A.J.]

Sxb, I think it is you that is fuming and full of hot air. i mean what is with all the cursing and effing. did it finally get a bit too much for you?