Inciting tribal war.

[Gediid]

Ayoub

Thanks for pointing out the history of Sool for this illustrious forum.I think its about time that people should start refraining from chest beating bravado and start learning their history just to give them an idea of what the reality on the ground is all about.

[N.O.R.F]

LooooL@Oodweyne. I have a bone to pick with him now since he refered to Balli Dhiiq as not such a nice place.

[NGONGE]

^^ oo ma reer balli dhiig baad aheed? samir eyo imaan, saaxib.

[N.O.R.F]

^^I would refer to a certain place or two as not such a nice place(s) laakin bilaayo la iqabsadaa

[NGONGE]

^^ It didn't stop me

[Che -Guevara]

LoooooooL@reality, it is relative term Gediid. There is mine and there's yours, but neither could be dismissed by preaching history.

 

 

Ayoub....Saaxib, You speak of 91 Burco accord signed by the leaders of the Sool, and I guess if I read you right, you are arguing this to be binding contract. This maybe so but also I would remind you the 1960 unification of Somalia is also binding a contract. You can't argue for one agreement by nullifying another one which by all standards was more legitimate.

 

In 1998 Puntland was formed - unlike Somaliland - on the basis H-clan alliance

Isn't the very foundations of Somaliland based on Qabiil allinace (SNM) that liberated the north from the military junta. One can't condemn one group for forming Qabiil alliance and applaud the actions of another who's guilty of the same action. Somaliland is/was the brainchild of one group of Somalis.

 

 

Somaliland authorities were in charge and there was some kind of governance in Sool already.

Reer Sool made the choice to join Pland. Nobody forced and coerced into joining this entity. What matters at the end of the day what they decide for themselves regardless what entity had some presence in their land. It is their right to join Pland or Sland.

 

Sool is as multi-clan as Togdheer. Puntlanders call the Togdheer area they claim "Cayn" whereas "Sool is just Sool".

All Somali regions are multi-clan whether it is an amalgamation of two larger tribes or fragmentation of the same tribe. The same issues exist allover, but as history teaches us no could be muscled out of their land.

 

 

populace of Sool that does not belong to puntland's H-clans are supposed to be passengers in a bus

Aren't you asking reer Sool to be just passengers in bus too or you don't see the inherent contradiction in your statement. The overwhelming majority of SSC people don't support secession.How you ignore that the simple fact is beyond me. From the common people in the streets of Sool, Eastern Sanaag, and Buhoodle, to the Garaads of SSC, and the SSC diaspora including many in this forum all have expressed their support for unified Somalia once there is legitimate Somali government.

 

, where does it leave the H-clan members who do not support clannish Puntland?

It is their right to choose their own path as shown by the creation of Maakhir state, and I hope what would be the subsequent formation of Darwiish adminitration independent of both Sland and Pland.

 

 

How comes there's no "inciting tribal war" outcry from the likes of you when Afqudhac talks like this???

He is doing pretty much the same thing, and I condemn him for that in the strongest terms possibly.

 

 

I'm a realist who accept the multi-clan nature of every region in Somaliland. One Man One Vote.

Then reality should tell you Ayoub. We aren't advance enough to understand and appreciate what one man one vote is,in case point, web page,the key word in this article is Beesha, not an individual but Beesha. Transplanting "democracy" in what's essentially tribal society whose loyalty is to the tribe not to the state or nation is not gonna work.

 

Reality should also tell you that the administration in Somaliland and Puntland are beholden to their masters in Addis, and does little in terms of services for their people. These individuals at the helm in Hargeysa and Garowe are corrupt and has no sense of morality. They have sold their souls, their lands, and at ever increasing rate their own people to the Zenawi regime.Any Somali thinking the admins in any other of Somalia is gonna deliver them independence or greater share in the Somali political structure is simply deluding themselves.

 

The Zenawi regime wants Somalis to be poor, hungry, vioceless and divided. That's how Somalia is today. Pland and Somaliland are just comestic dressings to cover the Caybata Soomaaliya ka socota.

 

 

Our opponents preach "unity" and "somalinimo"

There is no unity, Somalinimo or even Islamnimo anywhere in Somalia.And quite frankly, I'm not and wouldn't sell you those themes. They lost their meanings along time ago. And I'm not saying I'm your walaal either,but I would like to tell you is to understand and appreciate the circumstances we all find ourselves, divided, tribal in nature, and being exploited by a wiser foe that doesn't want in all honesty see you or I succeed regardless if Somalia is united or divided along the former colonial lines.

 

Considering circumstances of our existence today, it is hard to understand and explain why would anyone risk war that in the end will not give Somaliland the independence it seeks or will not ensure Puntland the political hegemony it is after in Somalia. This war does one thing, that's to uproot the innocent civilians in LA. Now if you would be so brave enough to ask the poor folks in LA if this war is for the best, please let me know how they answer you.

[AYOUB]

Garaads and Caaqil of Sool did sign up when Somaliland was declared. The same way all Somalilanders signed up for union 1960. That's how I see it. How can creation of Puntland nullify Somaliland? Remember 5nta Soomaali? I see Somaliland equal to the other 4. Puntland is meant for and by one sub-clan, whereas Sool, Sanaag and Togdheer are multi-clan.

 

That's the difference between SNM and Somaliland too. Everyone signed up and can be/is represented in Somaliland. Somaliland is lead by Riyaale and founder-member of SNM like Mj. Maxamed Xaashi is his prisoner. How can you say SNM is Somaliland?

 

Somaliland is not perfect, far from it. But the alternative (TFG/Puntland?) for Laascaanood is even worse. There's room for compromise instead of war but it starts with the acknowledgement of Somaliland.

 

Originally posted by Oodweyne:

And therefore, if I ever found myself needed any helping hand, I am sure of it that,

Mr. Ayoub-Sheikh

will bring his

"Malcaamad Quraan's beating Stick"

, to the task in hand; which is, the need of his

"Patriotic Education"

and it will be good for him in the larger sense.

 

And he - i.e.,

Mr. Ayoub

- shall see to it, to trash him (i.e.,

Mr. Ngonge

) for good measure, whilst I proceed or at least attempt to hold his slippery girt to the ground(

).

 

Regards,

Oodweyne.

Lol you remind me of Muj. Maxamed Casayr kicking lumps out of his rudeboy students in his malcaamd. I propose a softly softly approach on the cousin Ngonge's fence-sitting. I'll start with a few sessions of me reciting relevant verses into his ears. Make him drink my special blend of water from toghiidheeraa. I hope this works, always does. Just in case it doesn't, I propose "the Woolwich boys" pay him a visit. All we have to do is show them what he's been saying about the motherland. If North chickens out of giving the location of this bassal-eater, I'm certain one of the good sisters of the SOL's Women's Section will gladly assist us.. time is running out tick tock tick..

 

Gediid

Thanx but the bleasure woz all mine.

[Che -Guevara]

^^^You try so hard to look for differences where there is none.TFG, Pland, and Somaliland are mutations of the same evil. The only way to avert war is leave everyone to his own. The sooner the cult with juggernautish tendencies in Hargeysa gets that, the better it would be for everyone.

[Juje]

Originally posted by AYOUB:

How can creation of Puntland nullify Somaliland? Remember 5nta Soomaali? I see Somaliland equal to the other 4.

I wish you could apply the same logic to 'how can the creation of S/land nullify the stetehood of Somalia'? And no, S/land was never the same as the other '3' cause it has already merged with 1 other than the 3 to form Somalia hence the retreat from this union requires the presence of all parties that signed and mutually contended.

However untill at a time when such scenario emerges those who pacify their corner can continue with self-governance and declare anything under the sun though its validity will entirely depend on the others.

[xiinfaniin]

Ayoub has confused himself beyond remedy! Must be more than the fall of LA that got him all worked up …

 

ps

Well reasoned, Che and Juje!

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by Juje: wish you could apply the same logic to 'how can the creation of S/land nullify the stetehood of Somalia'? And no, S/land was never the same as the other '3' cause it has already merged with 1 other than the 3 to form

Somalia

hence the retreat from this union requires the presence of all parties that signed and mutually contended.

However untill at a time when such scenario emerges those who pacify their corner can continue with self-governance and declare anything under the sun though its validity will entirely depend on the others.

That's progress. First of all Salaams wa Raxmas. We've hardly crossed paths, have?

Every cloud has ...

 

Like I said, there' room for compromise instead of war. If Somalia remains "a failed State", and not ready for settlement then Somaliland with it's borders should be left alone. You can't have your cake and eat it. You can't be too sick to work and be fit enough to be the boss at the same time.

 

BTW - At the risk of being Duke-like repetitive, Somaliland has the right of self-determination just like KILIL5 and NFD if they choose to go alone. I'll only ask your permission if I want to us unite. The 60 union failed with Somali Republic you can't deny that.

 

Xiin

Confused? Moi? I think you're now getting carried away with your psycho-analysing. I'm just enjoying a discussion with people who bother to listen.

[Juje]

Originally posted by AYOUB:

First of all Salaams wa Raxmas. We've hardly crossed paths, have?

Every cloud has ...

 

Like I said, there' room for compromise instead of war. If Somalia remains "a failed State", and not ready for settlement then Somaliland with it's borders should be left alone. You can't have your cake and eat it. You can't be too sick to work and be fit enough the boss at the same time.

 

BTW - At the risk of being Duke-like repetitive, Somaliland has the right of self-determination just like KILIL5 and NFD if they choose to go alone. I'll only ask your permission if I want to us unite. The 60 union failed with Somali Republic you can't deny that.

Wa Caleykum Wa Salaam w w ! Sxb ha ila fogaan hana ii fogeyn.

I think you have a point beyond doubt as far as a failed nation goes, but that is over ridden by your zealous believe that the secession is overwhelmingly desired by the majority, which brings me to my ealier statement that those who signed the union should all be present to disband it in full mutual agreement. And they dont necessarily have to be all those who are from the 'south', but I think you will agree with me more than one unit was made up of the Northern contigent at the time of mergence. Hence their desire and want should be taken into consideration. That is allI stated sxb - I have no qualms with you neither any other secessionist, except to fulfill the required status.

[AYOUB]

^^ Sxb I have no qualms to be part of Somali Republic if that's what the majority of Somalilanders want. None whatsoever. No ifs no buts.

[Liqaye]

Yup the only thing that motivated me to post on here is the mention of ballidhiig forgive me if all these arguments for and against just meld together in my mind, but the mention of ballidhiig changes all that