are you a traditional girl or modern superwoman?

[dawoco]

Khayr,

You are intitled to your opinion as good as the next farax. But don't u think that the only way to put our islamic people on top and to compete with the kuffars is trough education?

Are we really in a position to turn away from any form of education while the people that hate us are working day and night to find ways to hurt our muslim brothers and sisters, if not us?

Can we really be picky about who goes to work and who doesn't? What happened to group effort....

 

I think that there is nothing wrong with your ideals,tho i don't agree with them all.

But brother keep in mind that we come from a war torn country and no one is going to build it up for us. Everyone else is more concerned with building up their own country. So we need as many educated people as we can get, b they men or women.

[Rokko]

I gotta ask you guys this question, dont' we have a culture..?? well then does that culture encourages or discourages us from higher education wether it's modern technology or quran...so why differenciate the two and say...you're either modern or traditional...

 

C'mon now...

[raula]

Culture, Mobb deep is socially constructed,(not exact definition), it is a set of conduct/rules/guidance/customs/traditions that certain group of people/communities/socieities follow-kinda of like ritual 'norms' that defines the shape/characteristic of that particular community. Therefore, my perception is that not all somalis have grown up in somalia, and have the same views/perspectives about the "somali culture," hence variability in outlook. Then, women who either pursue a "career" or decide to become housewifes(w/no formal education at all or with minimal education) are defined by their "cultural" standards depending on the geographical, social and economical positions.

 

FS>..good argument...So Khayr..are you saying that all the muslim doctors,lawyers, etc...who have contributed back to their respected muslim communities are not by definition, fitting the right career by the will of ALLAH? I dont get it????maybe I need some more explanations...

 

Back to the topic..Iam both(traditional and modern) depends on how one defines the terms...I would like to call it..go w/the trend(take what's significant from both)...and still maintain you DEEN...Iam pursuing a career right now..and hoping that insha-allah I will be able to help my family(biological) and that of my own..If I find a husband that can support us(both his biological family and us) then great, otherwise..w/stressing economic constraints..I can't afford to be on the street alleys with my kids...I dont know about others!...besides..many of us dont have the chance to get an education..therefore w/the intention of helping others...I dont think getting a higher formal education hurts..(to help those who were unlucky)..and to protect other muslims around the world too..with one's expertise...as long as it HALAL..and acceptable in the eyes of ALLAH(S.W.A)

[Khayr]

FS>..good argument...So Khayr..are you saying that all the muslim doctors,lawyers, etc...who have contributed back to their respected muslim communities are not by definition, fitting the right career by the will of ALLAH? I dont get it????maybe I need some more explanations...

by Raula

 

 

It's b/c what I am saying has something to

do what you have REAL PASSION for and believe

in-YOUR LIFE, DREAMS AND ASPIRATIONS!

 

Life is the best of TEACHERS

provided inshallah that you become

CONCSCIOUS.

 

Hadith: "In life you are a sleep, soon as you die,

you are/become AWAKE"

 

Have you ever looked in the mirror or taken a picture last yr. and compared yourself

to another picture that you took last week?

 

You are a Diff. Person right.

I mean you would look diff. in those two pics

 

Well Why?

If you can pin point that out then

why can't you look yourself in the mirror

and see that you are not the person you were yesterday and that you are CHANGING

in BODY AND SOULLLLLL

as you get older.

and that what you do everyday

does have an AFFECT on you.

 

[ October 29, 2003, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: Ameenah ]

[Reality Check]

Khayr,

 

We pursue education in order to use our intellect better so that we can be convicted of what we believe in...and not wait around for other people who claim to know the religion feed us garbage one by one...

 

We pursue careers because in this place called North america, the land of the capitalists, you need both parents in the household working in order to afford a decent living. Women pursue careers now more, because the divorce rate is increasing, so she needs to be able to support her family also.

 

Is this a hard concept to understand? nothing "secular" about this...its a simply REALITY for some people. Muslim or otherwise.

 

Your idea of what women should and should not be doing is EXTREME...just by saying that we need to satisfy our intellect by pursuing education/career/ life experience as if we are not Humans at all..but animals that should just follow the pack leader...is absurd!!!

 

:rolleyes:

[bilan]

salaam

higher education is very important to both men and women, especially at this time where muslims are oppressed every where, we should try to learn everything, the reason muslims are what they are now is their lack of knowledge(physics, chemisry and biology), and islam always encouraged education,education never clashes with religion, that why muslim scientists never had a problem with religious scholors, while european scientists were either executioned or locked behind bars. girls should have a degree as a back up plan, they can not depand on a husband, he can die, or leave them, or he can be abusive, then with 5 kids, what can they do? how are they going to survive? i do not know what kind of a person would advise girls not to go to college?staying home with kids and cooking and cleaning, nothing wrong with that,it is good for the family, as long as when the time comes she can go outside and raise her kids alone with dignity.

[x_quizit]

I personally think that education comes first before marriage at this time in my life. After completing a degree and landing a sucessful career, only then will i think of marriage and kids because if i were to marry without an education, what would i have to offer my kids and husband? I want to be an equal provider for the household, since in this day and age, 2 income households are a necessity and not a luxury as some of u men think. Also, i want to be able to set a good example for any of my future kids, that education is important, and that a woman is able to balance a household and family, obvioulsy with the help of her husband since he is an equal partner in the marriage, therefore its equally important for him to maintain a household.

 

Its hilarious to see sexist men use this post to justify their ideas of a women's role in society. According to most brothas here, a somali woman's role should be a stay at home mom, not utilise the education that she's received and worked hard for, all to satisfy the somali's man (some) narrow idea of a good wife-barefoot and pregnant.

 

Now the man's role as many of you ladies have pointed out is-to not take care of his family and let them take welfare while he enjoys time away from the household responsibilities(tim hortons) with his equally irresponsible friends that act like they are in their youth when in reality, these men are well into their 30's and 40's yet are unable to step up to the plate and provide for their families.

 

Now, the somali superwoman, must step in and act like mother and father to her fatherless kids, cause they might as well be when the father isnt there to provide financially and isnt there spending time with them physically, the single mom (which she becomes even if she's still married cause all the resposibilities are on her shoulders) must go out, get a job, cook and clean, provide clothes for her kids, maintain a household, yet she's deemed "unislamic" by thankless, selfish men who havent spend a day in her shoes and would never understand the issues and responsibilites facing the somali woman of this era.

 

Also what's absurd here, is scaring the somali woman into an early marriage because she might not be wanted in her "old" age (30), or she might not be able to produce 17 kids as her mother did, wow, what a bad way to end up...having only 2 kids and not 17, must be my fault when i shoulda been married at 18 with no brain and idea of what it is to be a woman yet. These men who dont want to marry an educated older sista, well its thei loss ladies, cause ur education comes first....u come first, the man may not be around for u forever, but that degree will and when the right man comes along, i doubt age would matter. After all, the prophet (saw) married a woman 15 yrs older than him...if u men pride urself to be islamic, then age isnt a factor in choosing a suitable mate. Plus, only God knows who we will end up with, if we are to be married at all....its all written for us anyways, so do what u need to do know and the rest will fall into place.

 

p.s.there's nothing secular about education...medicine, science, philosophy, all were discovered by arabs due to the help of Islam, so dont give me the b.s.that if women were to pursue education it would mean the end of their islamic values....if u use that same retarded logic, what becomes of the men? or are they too macho to resist the allure of secular religion, therefore it explains why they are the #1 customer of coffee shops, with no ambition.

 

peace and education!

[Khayr]

Salaamz,

X-quizt,

I think that you need a HUGGGG!!!

You got sooo much anger in you.

You need more Positive somali male role models

cause the way you speak of Somali Men

is very demeaning and insulting.

I don't think that any man in his right mind

would prefer to sit at home

and have someone else play the role of

the PROVIDER in the family.

It brings SHAME to the man, when he does that.

 

Give it time, inshallah you're views will change

because you will experience alot more.

 

 

Fi Amanallah

[Ranya]

A/salam

 

Khayr I think the girl pretty much meant that an education is essential in this day and age. What if the girl never does get married and has or hasn't an education. Wouldn't the one with the education not have to worry about finance. For alot of girls they get the degree and choose to have a career. Other get it but have no intentions of using it, but just got it as a back up plan. Alot of my friends actually don't plan to use their degree, but their just getting it because they might one day need to use it or want to. I don't see the harm in it.

[raula]

"YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT

and even if you had someone breakdown

every syllable and letter for you,

it won't make sense to you.

 

Why?

(Its not cause I'm trying to call you ****** !)

 

It's b/c what I am saying has something to

do what you have REAL PASSION for and believe

in-YOUR LIFE, DREAMS AND ASPIRATIONS!"......by Khayr..

 

EXCUSE me..walaalo..if you haven't noticed..I didn't insult you or say anything to that extent that you can call me NAMES....However, i will leave it to Allah and to the admins of this site...That just proves to me what kind of person you are inside...with your false prophecies....(and Iam not talking about the religion..but that misguided info..that you seem to pass on to others...)..all I said was just explain your facts...so if you cant prove them...hell dont take it out on me....

 

To others..I will resume to my other duties..and this site will no longer be on my to do list..(I dont mean to insult others or the admins..I really get along with many of you guyz and have appreciated the love that I have received for much of my time in this site..however, there are some people that run their mouths..and I have been raised not to accept them..I hope this wont create some confusion....peace unto you and Ramadan Kareem...

 

 

Ma'Salaama my fellow nomads....

Raula

[Rising Phoenix]

X_quizit: You have summed up all I wanted to say. Excellent points, sis.

 

Can anyone answer me this? What is MODERN? What is TRADITIONAL?

[x_quizit]

Thnxs rising phoenix and rayna sis for trying to clarify my points to khayr, i think this brotha is being deliberatly obtuse and demeans my opinions with expressions like "u need a hug". Only open minded people of this century get the valid points raised by the sistas in here

 

Bro, this shows me the level of sexism residing inside ur futile brain, when u reduce a woman's concerns with such a condescending attitude as " u just havent experienced life ye"t, ur invaliding ones feelings.

 

Let me explain something to u, i have seen plenty of example of the men i described b4, so dont say i have yet to see them. Also, i am not generalizing all somali men, if u looked closely, ud see that i attached the word "some" to my comments, therefore im talking of the many that let down their families.

 

What's wrong with the woman being the breadwinner i ask u and the man staying at home if she's able to earn more money than him? I think that actually testifies to the level of comfort the man has with his manhood, if he recognises that one parent is needed at home and if her money is able to support the whole family, he can act as the role of the housekeeper, which in of itself, is a very important job in society.I guess bro, ur not man enough to stay home. Think about that, and im sure u think u should still be the breadwinner, even if ur earning minimum wage, just to satisfy ur idea of a man. So sad bro, at think u need a reality check and the only woman who will live with you under those circumstances, is one u got from back home, who might be happy with being in the West and able to take b.s. My condolences to ur future wife.

 

Rising Phoenix, u asked what's traditional and what's modern? great q....depending on what century one is living in, then people of that time get to say what's modern and what's not, but the problem with that is that it changes according to location, time, cultures, etc....I think modernity in the context of this post, means when traditional household norms are abolished in order to take in new ones, because society is ever changing and evolving. So in this day and age, a modern woman is one that is able to maintain a career, has a house and career and a traditional woman is seen as one who is a stay at home wife/mom (nothing wrong with that) as long as it was her choice and not shoved down her throat by society/culture by such ppl as Khayr. Hope that clarifyed ur clouded judgement bro.

[Thinkerman]

I think for the sisters it would be a trying task to try and balance successfully Both a career and a house and i guess it is to that end that you will need to find a Sympathic and very accomodating Guy.

[Captivating_SouL]

AM A MIXTURE OF BOTH...a modern women whose focus isnt on getting married to some faraax cuz he's a charmer but same time life occupation is driving taxi around the block..naah that aint me. I hold strongly the same qualities i hold for the other person, neither is it unreal or illusion.

 

I'm my own person, INDEPENDENT WOMEN!. What i cant do for myself, aint no man can do for me. I can work just as hard, educated just as much and hold my ground just as any. SO all this crab of ...man this man tha..step a side. Nothing i hate more then a maleiest (lol) whose out to abolish women's strengthz..seriously. Ya'll need change of attitude if you (male) tend to think, that a female is to stay at home and depend on you...REALITY CHECK .!

 

1

[wind talker]

I used to be a traditional girl. Now, I'ma modern superwoman!

 

Captivating Soul -

 

When I grow up, I wanna be jus like you! :eek:

 

sykeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee