Togane speaks again!

[Kashafa]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

^^Perhaps you should read, good

Kashafa

, Ibnu Taymiya’s nullifiers of the nullifiers of Islamic creed (or some thing to that effect). Indict this man’s work, if you will, but don’t pierce his faith.

 

As far as I know a person remains within the house of Islam as long he publicly pray and does nothing contrary to the pillars of his faith.

I wasn't questioning or judging his faith, Akh; just commenting on the article(testimonial of some sort ?) he had posted on his website. Of course if one seeks salvation through Christ(as the article alleges), I hope you'll agree with me that no matter how long one bows his head in Salah, it won't make him a Muslim. It'd be nice if Togane could clarify his position on the Memonite Church thing. Youthful fling and keepin in touch for old time's sake ?? or (horror music) something more sinister.....stay tuned

 

Regardless, his faith has no bearing on his poetic skills(or lackthereof). Some of the richest Arabic poetry was produced in the pre-Islamic era. Togane is especially good at the Hija'a format, 'dissing' an entire group of people in a creative way for whatever reason. So what if he's blatantly tribalistic in his approach, he's still a funny read. No doubt he'd tailor his words if it were a academic setting or a peace conference, but in the wild wild web, Let Ol' Whitebeard rail on !!

[Pig]

A poet Togane is. A tribalist he is not. Absurd is such discourse!

 

Poetry, for Togane, doesn't come in enmity. For him poetry is sort of a reflection of his persona; a teller of captivating tales wrapped with comic wit. If a reader deciphers Togane’s poetry with good “comprehensionâ€, look for Togane cheery somewhere in his Montreal sanctuary. Nothing deeply bedevils the man – I call him the unruffled genius – not by any futile insults (he smiles that off), not by the apparent misread of his satirical verse. The only thing that annoys the old man is the state of affairs back home.

 

The chap is the lone Somali making sense out of a subject (tribalism) so atrocious, so venomous and so withering. He is the last man to be portrayed a tribalist. A harsh critic of the warlord culprits, a controversial poet yearning for a stable homeland, Togane sleeps well with the deep rooted thought that his words make a colossal difference in the grand scheme of things. They do!!

 

On a personal note, if you ever get fortunate to have a cup of kahwa with the Professor, quickly you should be acquainted with a proud Mogadishu native blessed with a rare genius. He is a “prolific chatterbox†always telling a terrific story that leaves a lasting imagery in the cranium. I met Togane 3 years ago. I also had the pleasure of meeting his son (I believe the kid was at Stanford U at the time). A Good man! Often misunderstood!

 

Togane makes me proud to be Somali!

[Rahima]

Rahima, calling Togane tribalistic is amazingly inaccurate. By all standards, he's the least tribalistic Somali alive. Yes, he insults many tribes (mine included), but sometimes "constructive criticism" falls on deaf ears.

What he writes is not constructive criticism walaal. It is insulting, disrespectful and unislamic. To insult a whole tribe even by what we might see as simple, such as degrading nicknames is xaraam at the very least. It is one thing to do it privately and a totally different thing when you know that it is to be published and read by many. It is a totally different thing when you know that many might be influenced by your work, such an individual has a greater responsibility and by doing what this man does you are making matters worse. This man is shooting himself in the foot if he is sincere. He believes that he is making a positive difference, but he is only adding fuel to the fire burning our country. How are his words any different than the thousands of other tribalists who throw blanket insults at a whole tribe? Arguably the intention might be different. But the sincere need to distance themselves from the negative methods of the insincere. The insulting of tribes is that which we know of tribalists and warlords, not those who care for Somalia and Somalis.

 

How many people do you know who's constructive criticisms are noticed, much less heeded?

Do you honestly believe that this mans words are constructive criticism? Do you know what makes criticism constructive? I can guarantee you that cay does not make it so .

 

The very fact that his views get aired, favorably or unfavorably, is a step in the right direction.

Really? So the fact that the words of every stinking Somali warlord get aired is also a step in the right direction? Airing of garbage is not a step in the right direction and really in my opinion is just negative. Who wants to hear the continuation of that which burnt our country to begin with? I certainly don’t.

 

As for those of us who decide to see his insults as referring to the wicked of every tribe, then I ask, why the need to tarnish a whole name because of a few men. I prefer to think that the majority of every tribe is good, few a rotten apples. Refer to them as you so wish, but no need to participate in jaahiliya .

 

Xiin,

 

but his style stinks

But he needs to understand actualities on the ground. He does not have to use tribal names to convey his point. In fact, I can argue that he is taking us back in time as he is replicating the methods of our clannish culture.

There are those who object him because of his style, which is frankly devoid of any consideration to the sensitivity of the people he addresses. They have a point.

Castro, very difficult to say. But one thing he could do is get rid off the tribal names from his work. It does not add any value. He could still be creative and confrontational without reinforcing clannish stereotypes.

Thank-you for simplifying my point . This is as you said just replicating the methods of our backward clannish culture which he is claiming to fight.

[Rahima]

Yoonis,

 

I gotta say of all the cheerleaders, you take the cake mate.

 

Any who read my posts would know what I stand for, no need to try and paint a different picture. Repeating it at every given chance will not change the truth .

 

I have never supported any of the warlords nor will I ever. I don’t give a shidh if you are disappointed in me because the words of a tribalist in my books mean shidh.

 

You don’t care about Mogadishu or its inhabitants so don’t act like you do. Your insencirity is flowing like water.

 

You give me way too much power, I do not hold anyone hostage nor do I support any who do.

 

This topic is about Togane and his poems. I can see that you are itching to engage in a debate with me, but I see no point because you are making a fool of yourself. Your tribalistic ways are obvious for every Faarax and Xaliima (excluding the cheerleaders of course) to see.

 

Bottom line, we are not the same, we do not think alike and we will never agree. I don’t agree with tribalists, now go and practice your cheers- I hear the nationals are coming up.

[Castro]

Originally posted by Rahima:

Any who read my posts would know what I stand for

May be that's the problem, atheer. May be no one reads your posts.

 

Seriously, though, does all the gripe you have with Togane boil down to his using the H word? Or is it the A word? What if Togane was a D man? Or an I man? Would his verbal steak knife cut just the same or worse? Does the "fact" that he is of the tribe that he lambasts the most make any difference to the nay sayers?

 

I'm of the opinion that Togane has transcended all of this rubbish we engage in and descends to our level in some of his poetry. He uses, nay abuses, the language we've become accustomed to. The language of tribal nonsense we so eloquently write prose in daily.

 

As you were.

[Simply_I]

Originally posted by Yoonis_Cadue:

Do you think it is nice to watch western TV documentaries and programmes saying that Moqadishu is the most dangerous capital on the Universe and that Moqadishu now is the second most dangerous capital after Baqhdad. Are you proud on that fact? Does it make you happy?

 

Why is there no jail in Moqadishu?

Dont like to get involved in talks about somali politics but i am going to briefly update you, there are jails in mogadishu but you have to pay to keep the criminal in.

 

Western tv documentaries are able to depict anything in a way that suits their agenda.

And mogadishu isn't that dangerous or for that matter more dangerous than any other war torn country on the planet.

 

The americans have a grudge against us after what happened in the 1990's and unless they are gaining something from the policies of the new government which they are going to support they will not help in its formation.

 

PS. they feel threatened by the somali ppl as they don't take shidh from a gal no matter how well off materialistically unlike other countries in Africa. The prospect of seeing people with such mentality in an advanced state isn't very encouraging for the west.

[Gabbal]

Castro

 

May be that's the problem, atheer. May be no one reads your posts.

Castro, I know you're a newbie in these corners (no pun intended ), but in this section dadka si gooni-gooni ah bee isku yaqaanaan. Believe me, she happened to be one of the most read nomads around here before she decided the effor wasn't worth coming to this section anymore.

 

 

Anyhow, you were being unfair to the sister by questioning her motive . If you had known Rahima as long as we have known her in the politics section, you would not question her intentions. She would have reserved her right to criticize Togane's "constructive" criticism simply because it's disrespectful and degrading. There is a fine line between criticism and degrading, and the fact that Togane happens to reserve the majority of his "criticism" for a single entity is a call to suspect. Considering the fact that his gibberish is being paraded around as texts from holy books would add insult to injury for any individual. Daacada waa wax loo baahanyahay.

[Rahima]

May be that's the problem, atheer. May be no one reads your posts.

You obviously do and so does Yoonis because he seems obsessed with me :rolleyes: .

 

Seriously, though, does all the gripe you have with Togane boil down to his using the H word? Or is it the A word? What if Togane was a D man? Or an I man? Would his verbal steak knife cut just the same or worse? Does the "fact" that he is of the tribe that he lambasts the most make any difference to the nay sayers?

It doesn’t matter what he is. I’m all for truth and harsh constructive criticism. I’m the sort of person that when amongst people of my tribe and they start gloating; I am the first to shoot. Haughtiness I agree is an enemy, but that does not mean that I have to participate in jaahiliyah. You can make a point without being rude and participating in that which destroyed our country to begin with. I’m not sure if I can make my objection to the poems and methods of this man any clearer, but hopefully it is now clear.

 

And the other thing, whilst this is only a virtual world there are certain nomads whose opinions mean more than others-yours without stroking your ego i pay attention to. Therefore i ask, why question my intention or objection when for example Mr. Xiin is expressing the exact same opinion, as I. Perhaps I am not as eloquent as the brother or as expressive as he, but it is the same no? So why the difference in treatment from you?

 

Simply_I,

 

Don’t waste your time on the likes of Yoonis. The man would have beef with Mogadishu and it’s inhabitants even if it were the most glittering and safe city on this earth. His feelings are based on his tribalistic ways. Mogadishu and inhabitants bad because they are from tribe X which he sees as the enemies of his tribe which is tribe Y. Yeah you got it, he has the thinking which makes us all qaxooti, therefore ignore him .

[Castro]

^ HA (Kashnare?), I had no intention inaan Raxima dhinac kaga dhaco. The jokester that I am, I couldn't resist saying that. To have found that line in a sea of words should tell Rahima that, at least I, read everything she writes.

 

Now, what is the problem here? Is it Togane v. the H clan? Is it Togane v. Somalinimo? Is it Togane v. A subclan? Is it Togane v. decency? Is it Togane v. artistic bravado? Is it Rahima v. Togane?

 

I am not an astute judge of poetry (or any other art, for that matter) and his poetry (which I find humorous, informative and enlightening) may be the worst attempt ever at poetry, but I take exception to the false accusation the man is bigoted.

 

That's it chief!

 

Edited to add (you're all sitting on your keyboards tonight :mad: ):

 

Rahima, if I've ever come close to treating you the way I did Xiin, I'd be forever banned from SOL. There's no double standard on my side. I am under the impression you find Togane to be a racist (clanist) because of his harsh words. He's not walaalo. He's crude, rude and cruel verbally. But he's not a bigot. I know the man. If I didn't, I'd not have come out in his defence for I wouldn't know, or care, one way or the other.

[Rahima]

Rahima v Togane

 

No it is not, but to choose from the selection you provided:

 

Togane v. decency and Somalinimo.

 

His poems are indecent (rude, crude, filthy, offensive etc) and against Somalinimo.

 

One can find his poems humorous (I mean we all laugh at some sort of filth, I for example find Chris Rock to be hilarious- and he is the epitome of filthy humour), but enlightening?

 

Believe me, she happened to be one of the most read nomads around here before she decided the effor wasn't worth coming to this section anymore.

You know HA, every time I decide to leave this corner, somehow one of the cheerleaders just have to mention my name. And even worse, I have no self control, I just have to blast. One day I will be strong enough to leave for good .

[Castro]

^ If it's a matter of indecency, then consider it nude art. Some people call it filth, I for one think it's great.

[Castro]

Originally posted by Rahima:

One day I will be strong enough to leave for good

.

Famous last words that they all say.

[Rahima]

Rahima, if I've ever come close to treating you the way I did Xiin, I'd be forever banned from SOL.

If that was the case, some here would of have already being banned. No special treatments on SOL, so have no fear dear Castro .

 

There's no double standard on my side. I am under the impression you find Togane to be a racist (clanist) because of his harsh words. He's not walaalo. He's crude, rude and cruel verbally. But he's not a bigot. I know the man. If I didn't, I'd not have come out in his defence for I wouldn't know, or care, one way or the other.

I can’t say for certain for I am not well versed in Somali politics or tribes, but it has being bought to my attention from a few people (of many tribes,H, D and I ) that Mr. Togane is just expressing the views of his sub-tribe, which is why I question his intentions. That said he wouldn’t be different from many people, but when you write publicly expect such criticism.

[Castro]

Originally posted by Rahima:

but it has being bought to my attention from a few people (of many tribes,H, D and I

) that Mr. Togane is just expressing the views of his sub-tribe, which is why I question his intentions.

So I questioned your intentions for questioning his intentions? You mean you're not calling him a bigot? You're not a bigot yourself? So all this was for naught? What shock, what horror? My sixth sense needs work.

[Gabbal]

Originally posted by Castro:

So I questioned your intentions for questioning his intentions?

Bravo Jaale, Bravo! *clapping" I knew you would reach that stage comrade, you are much too intelligent for a dope. Good on you for reaching that stage.

 

but it has being bought to my attention from a few people (of many tribes,H, D and I [Wink] ) that Mr. Togane is just expressing the views of his sub-tribe,

Indeed Rahima, indeed. The man is always speaking from his sub-clan's point of reference when addressing his "favorite" bashing group. Is it intentional? Sub-concious? I don't know, but his fruedian slips here and there are indeed visible to all those who read between the lines.