Gabbal Posted June 5, 2003 I don't want to go into another meaningless debate about a non-existent state, because I have been in too many, but I would just say that Ayoub-Sheikh actually reminds me of a bad politician, who he tried to twist and turn my words. Even though they were both gaals and colonized, i would just repost what Baashi posted on another thread from the Library of Congress. The two decades between 1900 and 1920 were a period of colonial consolidation. However, of the colonial powers that had divided the Somalis, only Italy developed a comprehensive administrative plan for its colony. The Italians intended to plant a colony of settlers and commercial entrepreneurs in the region between the Shabeelle and Jubba rivers in southern Somalia. The motivation was threefold: to "relieve population pressure at home," to offer the "civilizing Roman mission" to the Somalis, and to increase Italian prestige through overseas colonization. Initiated by Governor Carletti (1906-10), Italy's colonial program received further impetus by the introduction of fascist ideology and economic planning in the 1920s, particularly during the administration of Governor Cesare Maria de Vecchi de Val Cismon. Large-scale development projects were launched, including a system of plantations on which citrus fruits, primarily bananas, and sugarcane, were grown. Sugarcane fields in Giohar and numerous banana plantations around the town of Jannaale on the Shabeelle River, and at the southern mouth of the Jubba River near Chisimayu, helped transform southern Somalia's economy. In contrast to the Italian colony, British Somaliland stayed a neglected backwater. Daunted by the diversion of substantial development funds to the suppression of the dervish insurrection and by the "wild" character of the anarchic Somali pastoralists, Britain used its colony as little more than a supplier of meat products to Aden. This policy had a tragic effect on the future unity and stability of independent Somalia. When the two former colonies merged to form the Somali Republic in 1960, the north lagged far behind the south in economic infrastructure and skilled labor. As a result, southerners gradually came to dominate the new state's economic and political life--a hegemony that bred a sense of betrayal and bitterness among northerners. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Siman Posted June 5, 2003 opinionated wrote: "Why don't you stop acting like you are more civilized and calling other people from other region names! I think it's pathetic to boast something you haven't yet received...your very own country! Personally, I don't care too much for Somali politix..nor do I care if Somaliland doesn't want to be a part of Somalia..but what I can't stand is too much pride and disrespect for others because of that pride!" __________ The answere is, people who take extra effort to show off pride and brag themselves, have (according human psychology)fear of inherent INFERIORITY. The true of the matter is if U are confident and self-assured, they would be no bragging and no external pride!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Siman Posted June 5, 2003 quote: ------------------------------------------------- The treacherous Brits faced more resistance and lost more men than Italians and they had to use planes to save their skins. ------------------------------------------------ Youp-Shiekh, British Used air planes to eliminate Sayid Mohamed and Darawiish, are U telling me Sayid Mohamed was Norther/Somalilander? Please read the Somali history. Who were they Somali freedom fighters for over 20 years? Infact it was the fear of Sayid Mohamed that British wouldn't sold U out to the European market!!!!! Posts: 12 | From: Meel Geel leh | Registered: May 2003 | Identity: Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- and one more thing Mr. Youp-Sheikh, The primary armforces/tools British used to combat agains Darawish were now So called "Somalilanders" Just read the peotry of Sayid Mohamed and U would get enlighen with facts __________________________________________________ Really........... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miles-militis Posted June 5, 2003 The trouble with debating the pro-secessionist camp is no matter how excruciatingly repellent the case for whilst overwhelmingly pragmatic and rationale the case against dismembering of the land of Somalis is being made, they almost always find a loophole, an angle to twist the discussion to what appears favourable only in their stupor by simply sidestepping to trivialise determining factors, thus decisive and critical issues, or so they attempt to reach out so desperately to nonsensical matters so impertinent that no relevance could be found as to the domain of the discussion, or worse yet at times revert to dim-witted, single liner defence mechanism only coherent in their elusive state of being including “we are better”, we had never been colonised”, “we have done this and that; have so, so and so”, and numerous gibberish drivel of one sort or another. They are clever bunch, majority of whom never set eyes on what life is like in the country they are so fervently devoted to promoting as though it were a thirsty-crunching multimillion brand name, that they never desires to develop an argument on any issue(s) for the futility of such debate in their minds is untenable, thus ought to be avoided at all cost; therefore trying to reason with them is somewhat hapless endeavour. One could, and this would make more sense to boxing fans, equate them to a novice pro with a jagged left hook, no punching power, a docile chin, but a quick pair of legs and a head the size of a peanut that even Ali at his pinnacle could land a jab. A suggestion if you will - In a gentle sort of fashion you would want to entertain their thoughts, receive them benevolently, make provisions for them, in other words (u seetadheeree) until reality hits them right in the forehead. How and when will that be you may ask? At their first experience. Their first trip to the said country by itself shall slap them with a dose of reality, a wind-chill (the Siberian type) if you will in late January, at the very airport as they set their feet on the dusty, god-forsaken arid ground. There the nubile one get mentally wounded, whereas sceptically inclined ones book a flight back home at once on the spot. And what do you reckon happens once they get back? They almost always start passionately campaigning under the “unified Somali territory” card, and sometime even go one step further by promoting a Pan-Africanism bandwagon. And until such day beckons irrespective of how one tries to reason with them, there is no discernible prognosis or accessible prescription at hand to offer. So long! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miles-militis Posted June 5, 2003 This I reckon ought to bring the debate to an end as it says it all. Angel-Dust, did you say what is Puntland? Read along as you will find the answer in the cartoon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LANDER Posted June 6, 2003 I've missed alot, yet I don't see any of these debates going anywhere. All I see are people taking cheap shots at each other, ignoring each others concerns (i.e. this quote of AYOUB Samurai gave a number of reasons why Somaliland wants to be seperate, but left out the most important one which is: WE DESERVE BETTER.); using clever expressions and metaphors to reinforce otherwise weak arguments (samurai); posting misinformation (horn afrique’s article) etc… Landers, Why don’t we just concentrate on improving our home land. We are known for taking action and not wasting time in pointless and hopeless arguments. I started a topic on Somaliland’s problems and would very much like your inputs on it. None of us can really have a direct impact on the situation back home, but talking about these issues and spreading awareness on other problems related to Somaliland will serve us better in the future. So in other words, lets help each other and learn from one another so we can better serve our country. The Thread is titled “Somaliland’s incompetent leadership…….” Gaining recognition is not the main focus of my posting, but we do have to admit it is vital for TRADE and that would be the most important reason to me to seek it. p.s. Non-landers are more than welcome to contribute. (i.e.Bari_Nomad, entrepreneur) thanks for the inputs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
India Posted June 6, 2003 GEERLEY AND GUTO, I CAN STEEP AS LAW AS YOURSELVES AND NAME CALL YOU BUT THEN I WONT FOR AM A SOMALILANDER AND THAT IS THE DIFF BETWEEN YOU 2 AND MYFLEF. COMPRESNDEZ VOUS? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.somali Posted June 6, 2003 Assalamu calaykum: a lively debate! I think at the end of the day the will of the people would be a decisive factor. If our somali brethens in the so called somaliland decide to wave us goodbye- and in so doing quinch the enigmatic desire of somalis, so be it. HAN QARAARAC HAL LUG UMA DHUTIYO. It is ironic though that while divided nations are looking for ways to unite (EU, KOREA TAIWAN ETC), the proponents of somaliland have opted for a division. My guess is that several power hungry thugs in somaliland have hijacked and misintepreted the will of the somalis there. Their weapon is fear and hatemongering. The source of this fear is manifested in the works of the dictator afweyne, his army and those that were in power. As has been pointed by several people in this forum (entrepreneur, Warrior etc) the state of somaliland, barring the discovery and diffusion of enormous resources, is not economically strong. Furthermore, the socio-cultural environment is not a discriminatory one! So, to cut this short: let the people decide! by people I mean those who are in somaliland (many of whose primary goal is not an abstract independency but food, shelter). If there is anyhting we have learnt from the wars in somalia it is the hybrids of so called politicians and intellectuals who use fear and intimidation. so Dantey, Cimli and lander, brothers, you are somalis and as such we shall welcome you to the somali family to which you belong to. Stop this mess of dividing the somali people.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SamiGyrl Posted June 6, 2003 ITs not about dividing, we were never one nation to begin with, it was all an idealistic idea and went head long into hell and is being seriously sauteed by the devil himself. I dont understand why people in the pro unity camp always cry, we are brothers, well where the hell where you when that shyt counted? Cry on the net all you want, Somaliland made its peace without any foreingers, disarmed the SNM, which we will always be gratefull too (luv you guys, and our childrens children etc... will never forget). We had a refurendum, we have had presidential elections, and the praliament awaits, the World Bank, and some other interesting characters recently visited Somaliland, I hope you listen to the BBC, anyways, we have gone and gone for good. Stop yelling like an unwanted woman and get on with your life. P.S. our police are being trained and we have women on the force, our nation is building slowly but surely, goes to show envy, and constent internet yelling about Somaliland and whether or not it should leave the union hasnt done anything for Somalia except plung it deeper and deeper into the mess they created for themselves. How many presidents are in Muqdisho now? How many warlords are trying to rule you? They are going to send in African Soldiers to do the job the Americans couldnt finish, and all you have to say is Somaliland, Somaliland, Somaliland. *Shacking head* Get a life! -Citizen Sami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.somali Posted June 6, 2003 Samigyrl you wrote: " Stop yelling like an unwanted woman and get on with your life." You are not doing the people of somaliland any good by uttering such words in an otherwise healthy debate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SamiGyrl Posted June 6, 2003 Mr Somali how are my words unhealthy? Is it unhealthy that I point out that the same ones crying for brotherhood were the same ones that crushed it? Is it unhealthy to point out that the pro somalia group should focus on better the lives of their people, instead of constently seeking Somalilands help and inclusion in the never ending war in Somalia? Is it unhealthy to point out that the pro somalia camp should focus their energy where it is needed which is in their own homes? And not to Somaliland? I used no foil language, I stated the truth take it or leave it. The truth hurts I know, DEAL WITH IT! -Citzen Sami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
India Posted June 6, 2003 Sami_Gyrl sis salaama, Boy am I glad to see you here!!!!!!! I have been accused of being you :confused: To the point I started doubting myself. lol. Anyway, to be put in a pedstal with yours trully is an honor As they say "Great Minds think a like". Nabad AD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gediid Posted June 6, 2003 Marka hore welcome back SamyGyrl Marka labaad I think Samygyrl was very poignant in her remarks re:the fate of the South. The tactic SomaliWeyn supporters are adopting is the Somali adage that said "Call a thief a thief before he calls you a thief". Well keep screaming thief guys, every inch Somaliland moves forward SomaliWeyn moves 10 back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dantay1 Posted June 6, 2003 What is this truth you talk about? Where should ascertain the truth, from your families your clan elders. There is a saying “ don’t take everything you hear to be true” all we are getting is prejudices from Hargaysa spilling into the net. “ we are going places” “ we fought the fascist” the question here is who is we? Is it only Hargaysa that is going places? And were all of you part of the SNM?. I can safely reply NO, to bo th questions, on the contrary Hargaysa is not the only town in SOMALIA doing well. To fighting AFWEYNE forget Angel Dust and Lander even DAHIR RIYALE KAHIN “who” the president of the FREE did not fight the “fascist regime”. NO, this can’t be lord no the president of SOMALILAND was a member of the NSS of Berbera. “what is this Puntlan ?” Well that’s another lesson, but I would like to add that ignorance and arrogance is the way of the weak. Believe what you want but I tell you are in for a shock of seismic proportions. Somalia is not dead, just like Mogadishu alone is not Somalia. There is no us and them, its just all of us and you. We have many clans to many for you to understand, ****** ,DAROOD,DIR,RAHANWEYN , JAREER WEYN, TUNI BARAWANE, REER HAMAR. BAJUNI but hey who am I to be boosting these groups?? I like how AYUB SHEKH is quite, the British lost so many to the SAYID, and they died, but my brother look up a man by the name of OMAR SAMATER, not ALI SAMATAR LOL. He was a warrior who fought the Italians till late 1945 and is a national hero in Ethiopia, bet your mother hasn’t told you that hey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gabbal Posted June 6, 2003 but my brother look up a man by the name of OMAR SAMATER, not ALI SAMATAR LOL. He was a warrior who fought the Italians till late 1945 and is a national hero in Ethiopia, bet your mother hasn’t told you that hey Infact the most prestigous high school in Addis Ababa is named after Omar Samantar, and do you know why? When Haile Salassie was expelled from Ethiopia, it was Omar Samantar who, at the break of dawn, whisked Haile's wife and kids away to Somalia, and held them there as Haile tried to get help from Europe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
