Somaliland: The Little Country That Could (David H. Shinn)

[Cilmi]

Entrepreneur,

 

Said........

 

"Very right in saying that "we got rid of a fascist dictator" but isn't what you are saying the creation of another dictatorship"

 

Brother, your questiond doesn't make any sence? Perhaps i should do an introduction to somaliland where democraticly elected gov'ment is in charge

 

 

Ethnicity: Black

Country: Somaliland

Nationality: Somalilander

 

-----------------

Waxba yaanu xeerkay i marin xoolona i siine

Xaashee nin libin kaa xistiyey xumihi waa yaabe.

[Dantay1]

Ah another argument about Somaliland, dear brothers British Somaliland was a colony oops I meant a “protectorate” and was given independence on 1960, I love the British they do have a way with words, but I love my brothers more for still believing that lie after more than 4 decades.

 

Get a grip you were colonised your land was used and then they let you go, if Somaliland was so important to them where are they know?

 

To the map and border issue where did the Sultan of Zanzibar rule, foe example who ruled the state now called Puntland and Nugaal Valley who ruled present day Hiiraan and Central Somalia, have you any idea how big what you call southern Somalia is?

 

Somaliland rules where Dahir Riyale Kahin can sleep at night, Somaliland rules where the new flag flies and it is not in most of Sool and Sanag.

 

If Somalia is divisible so is Somaliland….

 

Peace, less philosophy more fact

[Siman]

To: Angel-Dust, LANDER and all the others who are talking big about Somaliland, before U make any noise or brag about Somaliland and keep away from Somali, stop for munite and think the word: Somali-Land. The name was invented in the 18 century by British colonist to denote the Somali country as a whole, here U are some hundred years later using the same name for few cities in the Northern Zone of Somali. Practically, we, all Somalis, are from the land of Somali in short Somaliland. May I suggest to U if U want to be separate( I don't know how that is possible) to come with a new name. one could closetly resemble to what U have in mind when U say "Somaliland"(Burco iyo Hargayso, maintly). Don't drag the this great name( Land of Somalia) which encompasses all Somalia to refer to such small Territory.

If U need any help with naming let me know...........

[miles-militis]

Dear Cilmi & Angel-Dust - Assumption, innuendos, presumptions, insinuations, claims, counter-claims left and right – are we not losing the essence of the debate here. Do you wish to address the trade and economics perspective regarding a country called Somaliland as opposed to Somalia; or perhaps Puntland vs Somaliland; or do you rather we approach the concept of secessionism and separatist ideologies? And if the latter, then the viability, and a big “V” at that, and legitimacy of a country called Somaliland becomes the subject matter.

 

By the way Cilmi, there is a enormous difference between what has been portrayed on the Internet (rosy, green fields) as opposed to the grave realities on the ground (poverty, decease, lack of resources, hence employment, high percentage of literacy, institutional crisis, basic rights and political infringement, alienation of good percentage of the society, segregationist policies etc). And I would tone down the application of such terms as “enslavement, hatred, savages, perfect”, or your argument will have lost any weight or meaning it would have carried in the opposing corner. You were born free of neck chains and ankle shackles, are presently free, and shall remain free forever unless you choose to subject yourself to a lifelong mental and psychological dependence.

 

Dear Lander - I shall welcome a discussion of philosophy along with any of its doctrines perhaps after we have had resuscitated “the five star flag” from the comatose old chap. Now would not you agree that your punches are a tad bit below the beltline at this juncture by resorting to the good old analysis of the persona of the individual rather than the issues in lieu of reaching for the towel in grace mate? A good question “…why invest in Somaliland? aren't you contradicting yourself?” Why do you reckon that to be a contradiction mate? Why assume instead of enquiring old boy? Hargeysa is a Somali territory, is it not? Forget for a moment that I am a son of Hargeysa, consider myself a Puntlander, wish to retire in Kismayo, thus Somali (from Ras Casayr to Ras Hafun to Ras Camboni), do you reckon just because a few misguided persons adopt specious, perverse, Martian policies in declaring independence whilst hallucinating would encourage people to abandon their principals and rightful territories (Somalia of all). I think not.

 

Let us all see what we agree upon on one side, as opposed to what we do not agree on another?

Allow me to commence –

 

I, a federalist proponent, prophesise autonomous, yet congruous regions/states within a federal system of government in the home territories at the will, and will being the operative term here, of the populace.

 

I oppose emphatically and categorically all aspects of secessionism of any genre – my reasons:

• Not viable due to lack of resources,

• Not practical due to the geographical, political and societal structure inherent in all indigenous societies, and the nature of the conflict which stems from resource deprivation and scarcity, and neither tribal nor any other legacy,

• Not grounds, legal or otherwise for it except colonial disintegration of the land of Somalis which had been challenged, and could have been proven.

 

So long!

[AYOUB]

Dantay, all including what you now call Puntland was bought from the Sultan of Zanzibar. Unlike you lot, this clever chap knew the borders of his land. Somaliland and Somalia may both be called colonies, but Somalilanders negotieted a protectorate agreement with the Brits, while Italians arrived waving a lease and completed the purchase of 'Somalia' soon after. I would rather not spill the beans about your proud history, but since yous lot don't want colonial borders for Somaliland then the Sultan's map might help.

 

By the way, the Brits got into a little bit of trouble when they started to break the agreements, unlike the Talianis.

[Coloow]

To cilmi , dantay and angel Dust:

 

Why do you think the majority of somalis are against the notion of seperation for somaliland?

[Thinkerman]

:rolleyes: ^^^^^^^^^^^^ :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

yet another person who cant seem to put across a point of view without generilze and demonise a group of ppl. Why must people persist in using such terms as "Unlike you lot" what lot?? we are all somali's so get over what ever problems you expriencing its not such a difficult concept to comprehend

[Gabbal]

Ayoub_Sheikh I consider myself a Somali, citizen of the Somali land from Djibouti to the NFD, from the Ogaden to the Indian Ocean, but are you actually saying that the British were better for the Somalis than the Italians?

 

By the way, the Brits got into a little bit of trouble when they started to break the agreements, unlike the Talianis

They were both gaals and colonizers, but which one of the two seceded the Hawd to Ethiopia? The Ogaden to Ethiopia? Which one of the two just wanted to colonize one part of our lands so their trade routes can be secured without caring about the well beings about our lands or people? Which one actually built some sort of economy to sustain us? Which one of the two built plantations to farm in, and a railroad to connect it with the biggest Somali city? Which one of the two used airplanes to to fight us with, the first occurance in the African continent? Which one of the two signed agreements with us, and after deciding to colonize us without building an economy, destroyed those agreements? Which one of the two introduced Bananas to us as a cash crop, one of Somalia's major exports might I add.

 

To go back to history the Italians received only Muqdisho from the Sultan, not any other place.

 

Somalis do have a proud history, excluding the colonization part, and it's sad you don't know anything about.

 

Besides I hint a bit of ethnocentrism, quit maybe racism, from you. I just wish to add that "Somaliland" is not an ethnicity, however much you wish it to be, but a non-existent political entity not recognized by any nation on the face of the great Earth.

[Dantay1]

Ayub Shiekh, another delusional Somali brother, LOL, the Sultan of Zanzibar ruled Puntland, LOL. If this is what we are up against then I don’t want to debate. Brother when did British Somaliland ‘you lot’ become a protectorate and when did the Italians colonise the rest of Somalia?

 

Some history

 

My dear deluded friend what is now called Puntland was the Kingdom of *********ya and it took more than two years of warfare for it to be captured by the colonials, dear friend the date it got captured was 1927, yes 1927 and we became independent in 1960, do the maths and you will see that it was only three decades for what is called Puntland to reassert its independence. So we rather have the ********* Sultanate and Dervish maps thank you, Sultan of Zanzibar is another more southern Story to be told at another time. SOOL, SANAG, Buxudle (Hawed), Nugaal, Northern Mudug and Bari will be forever part of Somalia. For Toghdheer, Waqoi Galbeed and Awdal that’s for the people of those regions to decide. Its quite simple British ‘ protectorate’ or we don’t fight ‘ British got into trouble for breaking agreements unlike the italians’ lol, lol huh, ever heard of the Mad Mullah, Ali Yusuf Kenadeed, Boqor Osman, the Biyamal struggle, or is that KACAN propaganda?

 

To brother Entrepreneur, I don’t know why some don’t want Somaliland to break away? I myself believe the people of the three predominantly secessionist groups can break away if they truly want to. Look Djabouti is an independent Somali country, so can the North west of Somalia one day become. But I don’t believe that there should be a sacred following of the British colonial map. And that we should do willingly what ever these groups advocate, there is no recognition thus far so much for Britain and as a Puntlander there is no compromise on our right to be part of Somalia.

 

If Somalia is divisible so can Somaliland,

[AYOUB]

Are you actually saying the Brits were better than the Italians ?

No Hornafriq I never said that, so please stop chanting the praises for Italians. I was refuting the notion that 'Somaliland is all about colonial legacy'. The way Somalilanders joined with Somalia in 1960 is an example of what the people felt about colonialism. The Brits did very little for Somaliland, but Somali Republic did even less and until recently we still had colonial hospitals and schools after 30 years. The Frech, Brits and Italians were all bad for Somalis and it is sad for you to be boastiful about what the Italians did for you. The little good things the Italians did was for their own benefit and the clue is the phrase 'cash crops'. Out of respect, i won't go into details, but the Italians in Somalia were responsible to one of the most cruel and humiliating crimes in colonial Africa.

Which one of the two used planes against us?

The treacherous Brits faced more resistance and lost more men than Italians and they had to use planes to save their skins. Aren't you a little bit ashamed lecturing me about about being bombed by planes?.

 

Let me take this oppotunity to clear a few other things. I am a Somali just like ones in Djibouti or anywhere. My nationality is Somalilander. I like most you believe the land starting from Djibouti to NFD is ours. There are links between us that cannot be broken even the barbarism commited. I think most if not all us visitors to SOL forum are linked by this 'camel thread' and that is why we log on. I would welcome any Somali to live anywhere in Somaliland, and any Somalis to marry and start a family if they so wish. Do not confuse this good will with my desire to distance myself from a political union. Please do not misread my determination to keep away from ' SOMALIWEYN' with hatred or bitterness. I believe my political future is in a nation called Somaliland. This nation i still rising from rubble but has managed to give some dignity and stability for all the people living there. If anyone wants a future that will be decided by warlords somewhere in Kenya, that is fine, i wish them well and just like Djibouti, i'll respect your wishes.

 

To go back in history the Italians received Muqdisho from the Sultan....

Received? Don't make me laugh, how come you left this bit out of your 'How Somalis were devided' article? How did they 'receive' the rest was it a but one city get the hinterland for free deal?

[India]

What is this Puntland??? And who are these people that Dantay is boosting about>?

 

Please enlighten, on the other hand dont bother as am sure they have of little relevance to us because they exist not in our knowledge. I think the subject matter is Somaliland aka blessland my brother stay on the subject.

 

I can tolerate people diff opinion on the state of Somaliland but what I find amasing is this odacity to be little Somaliland and yet Somalis are proud of the turmoil they are in. When the going gets tough, the tough gets going. Somaliland is going place. I dont hear no mentioning of the rest of Somalis praises in the media --do you? I hear of foriegners trying to put you **** together, never a decent Somali with vision or honour standing up for thier country. Yet you all have the face to even talk. If I was you I would bury myself head first*lol*

[Geelaay]

quote:

-------------------------------------------------

The treacherous Brits faced more resistance and lost more men than Italians and they had to use planes to save their skins.

------------------------------------------------

Youp-Shiekh,

 

British Used air planes to eliminate Sayid Mohamed and Darawiish, are U telling me Sayid Mohamed was Norther/Somalilander?

Please read the Somali history.

Who were they Somali freedom fighters for over 20 years? Infact it was the fear of Sayid Mohamed that British wouldn't sold U out to the European market!!!!!

[Geelaay]

and one more thing Mr. Youp-Sheikh,

 

The primary armforces/tools British used to combat agains Darawish were now So called "Somalilanders"

Just read the peotry of Sayid Mohamed and U would get enlighen with facts

[Captivating_SouL]

AngelDust- re- read what you wrote.!

 

What is this Puntland??? And who are these people that Dantay is boosting about>? Please enlighten, on the other hand dont bother as am sure they have of little relevance to us because they exist not in our knowledge. I think the subject matter is Somaliland aka blessland my brother stay on the subject.

I can tolerate people diff opinion on the state of Somaliland but what I find amasing is this odacity to be little Somaliland and yet Somalis are proud of the turmoil they are in. When the going gets tough, the tough gets going. Somaliland is going place. I dont hear no mentioning of the rest of Somalis praises in the media --do you? I hear of foriegners trying to put you **** together, never a decent Somali with vision or honour standing up for thier country. Yet you all have the face to even talk. If I was you I would bury myself head first*lol*

 

 

Usually am not the type of person to even posts anything in political threads simply because i'd like to think my somali people have more decent respect for themselves as well as the rest of us.

 

But AngelDust

What is this Puntland??? you asked...Well do you want me to elobarte on what it is..cuz i got all the time in the world.

 

am sure they have of little relevance to us because they exist not in our knowledge Again something ignorant person would only state.

 

I think the subject matter is Somaliland aka blessland my brother stay on the subject. [/b] step down from your ralm...its good to be proud and confidant of your peeps but callin it blessland that i have a problem.

 

Somaliland is going place. I dont hear no mentioning of the rest of Somalis praises in the media --do you If you werent so wrapped in your own lil world, perhaps you would of either heard from it or seen it. But yes i have...

 

 

never a decent Somali with vision or honour standing up for thier country. Yet you all have the face to even talk. If I was you I would bury myself head first*lol There are hundreds of somalis with the vision to change its people and its country...but that may seem nothing to you..And yeah i do have the face in talking..where as you bad moutherd..trash talked am only statin my opinion directly to you and how ignorant and childish of you to even have such thoughts.

 

AngelDust like the last part of your nic stays...am dust that off cuz i did like to think we are all somalis unless you're tryna create your own country and peeps.

[Reality Check]

Somalilanders..I have one question for you?

 

Do you have a country called Somaliland? is it in the Map? uhmm..I don't think so..

 

 

Why don't you stop acting like you are more civilized and calling other people from other region names! I think it's pathetic to boast something you haven't yet received...your very own country!

 

Personally, I don't care too much for Somali politix..nor do I care if Somaliland doesn't want to be a part of Somalia..but what I can't stand is too much pride and disrespect for others because of that pride!

 

That's my 2.5 cents!