Al Shabaab Dilemma

[Paragon]

Al-Shabaab Dilemma? I don’t know about that comrade T.

 

For once, let me lay it down for you with clarity. Here’s the scenario: unlawful war was brought upon you. Your people have been systematically massacred; your country’s property destroyed; your national sovereignty assaulted and raped beyond reconcilable stage. Borne from such a condition, only two options become available to you: to either confront illegal force with your fierce force or fall down on your knees and cry like a little girl and beg for mercy from mercenaries. Now, I put to you these two options, which one would you take? For me, I take the first option in line with Al-Shabaab, however much they stand criticized. The Al-Shabaab approach coupled with their stated ideology is a man’s resort in times of great strife, and has tremendously come into fruition. I mean, what would the second option garner other than encouraging a man whose home is occupied to sit on his hands and do nothing? Which would mean accept occupation and become submissive. Sxb, I’ll impart to you one sound advice: in the face of an absolute and overwhelming force, defiance is the only viable choice. At least that way you’ll die an honourable death.

 

On one hand they fight courageously against the Ethiopian occupation. On the other hand they indiscriminately attack civilians and other AU troops.

On the first sentence, hell yes, you are absolutely correct, but on the second sentence, I think you are missing the whole point relating to the nature of the kind resistance Al-Shabaab is engaged in. Look my dear brother, I am asking you a question in all sincerity: how on earth do you first deal with an illegally occupying army shelling your people from military camps located right in the middle of neighborhoods? How I ask you? In addition to that, this is an army that, with or without provocation, is shelling civilian neighborhoods. Are you going to tell me that the Tigray and their stooge TFG could not afford to base their personnel outside populated areas and are therefore justified to operate from with civil settlements? I am 100% sure that if these vulture armies were based outside civilian areas, Al-Shabaab would certainly seek them out wherever they are. The initial reason of settling these so-called armies in places of close proximity to civilians, was simply shell and then cry foul when punishments are exacted on them. Punishment for massacring innocent civilians whom Al-Shabaab stands to protect. There isn’t one single incident in which Al-Shabaab has indiscriminately maimed or killed innocent civilians; their targets were always against military personnel or hardware. All these talk of indiscriminate killings is simply not true; its an Ethiopian ploy to demean those who rightly stand to fight for what is their God-given freedom.

 

They are not affiliated with Sheikh Sharif’s group and they do not have points or ideologies that one can negotiate with.

First, let me make one thing clear: as brother Kashafa has already mentioned, there isn’t that big a rift between the ARS and Al-Shabaab. ARS is a civilian wing of what is a national campaign of liberation. While ARS is rather more like the Sein Fein , Al-Shabaab is the IRA , and has every right to use any method deemed effective to the liberation of our nation. The other thing is, contrary to the ‘rift’ people keep mentioning, do you know that Al-Shabaab’s finances are made available to them by ARS sympathizers in the Diaspora? If the rift some talk about is real and divisive, why then is there such a financial link still in existence? On more thing to add to this is that, if negotiations are considered, Al-Shabaab has the primary right to claim that only they are in a position to commence negotiations. After all, it is they who are biting the bullet and not the ARS. That fact should be borne in your mind brother.

 

I believe Al Shabaab is and will be the next biggest (fitna) for Somalia.

Oh no, brother. You got that wrong. Al-Shabaab is and will be the Naseexo of our country. And you should not make the mistake of using the word ‘fitna’ on them at any given time.

 

Capisci?

[NinBrown]

Those who think Al-shabab will be the nasteexo of somalia are as misguided as those who support the Ethopian occupation.

 

Your regular Joe Blogg in Xamar who dies because of a roadside bomb thanks to al-shabab or Ethopian artilery....will in the day of judgemnt see both of them the same...so how can they be nasteexo...

[Abu-Salman]

The Ugandan "Peacekeepers" are a core, integral part of the "Crusade Against Islam(ism)", the reason why Western Churches and Conservatives reward so generously Museveni's Dictatorship.

 

How Could a Failed State, entangled with an Unending Genocidal Civil War, alongside VIH, Keep "Peace" in another, unreconciled country, which obviously lacks any peace to begin with?

 

Having said that, Al Shabaab would be well advised not to squander all our natural sympathy and their dignity by summarily executing unconvicted civilians and other un-islamic acts.

 

Instead, a more pragmatic and much more productive approach would be to continue to focuse on winning "Hearts & Minds" for our project of Shariah implementation and resistance to acculturation to succeed.

 

Consequently, our only hope is to abide by the Quranic Obligation of Muslim Unity to Salvate somalia From the Coalition of Westernized Secularists and their neo-colomialist masters, ie by obeying scrupulously our Ulamas.

[Nephissa]

Al Shabaab waa rageedii! They are willing to fight to the last man and woman to be free. The principle of 'live free or die' is put into action in the literal sense. No army can defeat such a determined resistance, no amount of guns or bombs can wipe it away, and the more the Xabashi fights them the more their resolve hardens.

 

Viva La Resistencia! Viva la Liberazione!

[N.O.R.F]

Toure,

 

Al Shabaab are not perfect and I highly doubt any news of their attacks against civilians. They are fighting a just cause and our support. Any imperfections they will be judged on individually.

 

Once the Ethios leave that cause would have been achieved.

[Geel_jire]

Those who are complaining do not understand what it is going on back home or they purposefully turn a blind eye.

 

'fitna' WTF ? ... you cannot be serous these men have achieved what no other individual/group in the world could dream of doing in the short span of 6 months they were master politicians.

 

now they are waging a guerrilla campaign against the occupation which has been very successful they devastate the traitors and the occupiers each day over running town after town ... slaughtering dabo dhilifs as if they were just taking out the trash.

 

we should all pray to God that this group of men who are the best peace makers and the best fighters to ever come out of Somalia lead the country after they are victorious in their current struggle.

[CapeTown]

SInce alshaabab is fighing on the behave of the people why dont they change tactic and waite to fight another day and give the people chance to live life .

 

Its win win situatin .....

 

Icu with help of the residents of xamar created peace for 6 month which no one disturbed it - even tho TFg could have disturbed it since they had huge supporters in the City . they could of easlliy Assassinate district leader shuars , place bomb on raod and etc .

[Thierry.]

Folks there is no doubt that Al Shabaab is the backbone of this resistance against the Ethiopian occupation, they are brave young men who are fighting for the cause of Faith and country.

It could be true that a lot of the media reports out their regarding them is fabricated however when leaders such as Abu Mansur condones live on Universal TV suicide bombings and killing albeit accidental of civilians due negligence, one must ask them selves are these warfare tactics in accordance to Islam. Gentlemen you make seem that the only way to resist is by any means and even unislamic acts are permitted. Lest you forget history has shown that Muslim men and leaders have faced mightier aggressors yet they never abandoned their principles.

 

I condone the resistance the Al Shabaab are carrying out but I condemn the some of the tactics they have opted to take just as the Ulema condone Hamas resistance and condemn the un-Islamic suicide bombings

 

 

Isseh you made a good point with regards to a Sien Fein and IRA like relationship between ARS and Al Shabaab, however it is hard to see this unity when Sheikh Sharif says we will speak to Nur Cadde and a day later Abu Mansur stating that the war will continue even after Ethiopian leave. There was a clear difference in ideology between Al Shabaab and ARS and hence they speak in different tones. Also you are right they are major stakeholders in terms of negotiation, but the question is what is their negotiation point, if it is what I think it is (negotiation only after all forces the Ethiopians, AU and possible Muslim Forces) then this goal is unrealistic and we won’t achieve it.

 

With regards to Al Shabaab being a fitnah we shall wait and see, will they obey their leaders ARS even if it is against their interest, will they lay down arms once the good sheikhs tell them to do so?

One must remember that the Khawarij were the best of warriors however their disobedience to the Caliph is what caused the first and continuous fitnah of the Muslim world (I am not insinuating that they are the new Khawarij however we shall see in the coming months and years).

[Laba-X]

FTG - a secular government which invited the Ethiopians to persecute Muslims - Are fighting so that Their word prevails.

 

Sh. Shariif's group - are willing to fight so that Ethiopians are out of Somalia (nationalistic interest)

 

Al-Shabaab - are fighting so that Allah's word prevails (An takuuna kalima-tu-llahi hiyal culyaa)

 

 

You choose which side you want to be on...

[Fabregas]

^^U forgot the Union of Islamic Courts....

 

 

Toure, all that you're talking about will become relevant once the Ethiopians leave or an actual peace deal is signed between the warring parties. It seems that Ethiopia is trying to find a clever way to leave Somalia and preserve the existence of the T.F.G:

 

 

replace them with African Union Troops, which are essentially a darker version of Tigray Butt, just another side of the same coin. Some people in Somalia are trying to avoid this, ie they want to finish the Xabashis and destroy once and for all, no negotiations, xabad iyo feedh! They're attacking African Union, so as to stop other African States coming to protect the T.F.G. Who is taking the right approach and is the better for Somalia will become apparent in due time. In the mean time more Xabashis are reported to be crossing the border........so the game and the goal is still the same for the Somalis! It's a jungle out there my friend, which we safe Westerners can't be to understand!

[Jacpher]

I don't know if Al-Shabaab are the biggest fitnah today in the country but I'm sure they're definitely not the best xikmah to attain peace and end to two decades of civil war. Actually, they stand as far as possible to bring xikmah and peace to Somalia.

 

Here are few simple facts you may get beheaded for.

 

• Somalia is a Muslim country with a national flag long before them.

• Islam did not spread throughout the country and much of the world by a suicidal maniac Kaligii Muslim.

• Ethiopia has twice as many Muslims or more as Somalia.

• Ethiopia & Somalia's conflict is as old as the child soldiers of Al-Mansuur's Shabaab.

• Jihaad is not blowing up Muslims and driving them out of their homes

• Rejecting and killing Muslims on the false basis of Murtadnimo is contrary to Islamic teachings.

This group is acting as if Allah has appointed them to decide who's muslim or murtad, lives or dies, and bring Kitabulah by a barrel of gun to millions of already Muslims. I won't be surprised if the likes of Mansuur claim to have received new waxyi of stepping to the presidency by any means necessary. I'm no Muslim scholar but I know Islam is a religion at peace with its people and full of xikmah.

 

At the rate this group is climbing to the power, the better of the evil choice might just be occupation of the Ethiopians. At least you'd be save returning from the masjid.

[Fabregas]

^^ Actually since Xabashis came many mosques have been closed and others have been used as military bases. So maybe if you want a xabashi soldier to stand on your neck whilst you make sujood, then it would be better for you. Or maybe the majority "Muslims" of Ethiopia, which by the way includes the occupied Somalis of the Ocaden will tell you about the delights and religious freedoms of life under a Tigray Commander!

[Emperor]

Alshabaab are no similar to any group seen in the Somali peninsula, they are mostly youth like the true sense of the world Ashabaab means, they have no leader to represent or at least unknown to the world to be talked, seen, interveiwed or discussed with. They have no desire to listen to anyone who's against their will.

 

Many in this thread have actually based their argument in support for this movement because of the Ethiopian presence and the fact that they are fighting against the Ethiopians and the TFG, you reiterated this point far too many times, let me repeat it for you again.

 

1. They are brave young men fighting against the TFG and the Ethiopian troops and thats why you support, I understood that point, no need to repeat it again. Now lets talk about the things that matter rather than dwelling on the things that we agree upon...

 

Alshabaab what do they stand for?

Is their mission of installing Islamic state in the Somali peninsula by force achievable? Lets imagine for the sake of argument they drove the Ethiopian out of the country and conquared all of the Somali lands, what after that? Fight with America or try to be diplomatic this time?.... and on the other hand lets imagine they never did achieve that goal of liberating the land, will they continue with the rampage killing and their 'Takfiir' slogan?

 

Who might they listen to as their Spiritual leader? Can they be contained or controlled? I don't think anyone has answers for this questions. Clearly what inspires these young men is not interest and nothing but religion, agreed to that, however, unfortunately in the wrong path, and that's why I see them as a very dangerous movement, I have never been so much frightened from any Somali group like them, and we will witness what they will come up with next...

 

All I see is a gathared youth so energetic willing to die and kill for what they believe, inspired by religion(wrongly so), with no known religious nor political leader and have no feasible mission to achieve, forcefully trying and doing it nevertheless and on the route justifying the murder of many innocents... the outcome is a disaster if you ask me.

 

Even the warlords used to deny when they kill or down play the level innocent deaths during an exchange of fire. However the Alshabaab are happy about it, have Kitaab with them to justify it and would take down below the groud if ones dares to ask or doubts their action, the Takfiir slogan is easily found in their pockets, and the 'you are infidel' is overused in their street... recently a father was murdered because he visited Villa Somalia to ask the release of his arrested Son, another sad incident were the death of a young boy sold his Mobile phone to an Ethiopian solider, now what Diin is that???? Im not making this allegations from nowhere and I am aware that you all know my postion, but it happened, they do it out in the open and the fact that Alshabaab wants you (the Somali nation) to see no evil hear no evil. You should never talk, interact, walk, bee seen with or even look at the infidels or you will be another infidel.

 

Some in here might suggest that (others have already) they do not share and support the group's ideology but their struggle and action against the Ethiopians, you have missed one big simple point: The idea behind the action is far more important than the action itself, how could you be supporting the action if you think their root ideology is wrong and given that the action materialised how would you contain the ideology later...

 

Alshabaab, no better introduction to Somalia.

[Paragon]

^Emperor, you have asked many salient questions sxb, and somehow, although you are sitting on the other side of the fence, I can understand your frustration. That is, hoping if you are expressing your protestations against Al-Shabaab as a concerned Somali, rather than a TFG sympathizer.

 

But all in all, most of the accusations you level against Al-Shabaab aren't all true. The said killings of innocents are mostly fabricated propagandist stories, and even when such accusations are true, the perpetrators are a handful of hot-headed boys, who are only eager with the use of their guns. They in no way represent the collective movement of Al-Shabaab.

 

On your hypothetical questions of what next for Al-Shabaab after successfully liberating Somalia , or the chain of command and Al-Shabaab's leadership, the only thing I can tell you is this: first, Al-Shabaab's main objective happens to be only liberation and their talk of future trans-global operations can only be concluded to be rhetoric to bring new recruits on board.

 

Remember most of the youth that joint Al-Shabaab do so in the name of Islam, and so appealing in the name of Islam for mobilizing the mass is a good selling pitch. I totally doubt Al-Shabaab members are truly thinking of getting involved in operations outside Somalia; their only involvement, I believe, would remain verbal and nothing more. After all, this movement is nationally and not internationally focused. You can disregard the odd sound bites that its leaders produce, which always come out right after a US involvement in Somalia in the name of 'war on terror'. At other times, you won't hear similar sound bites; these are sound bites meant to agitate the USA for its war against Muslims.

 

On leadership, yes Al-Shabaab has leaders and due to their decentralized chain of command and power, the movement's operations clearly have its directors and planners. The other thing is spiritual leaders; I am sure Al-Shabaab has its own spiritual figures, although we might not know of them currently.

 

PS: Good to see you active again in this section. You should post more posts like the one above. Such posts reveal more of your current opinions that I would like to debate with. I remember debating with you in person; that was more fun. Perhaps I'll check on you soon...

 

PPS: It's not too late to change your mind, you know .

[Koora-Tuunshe]

Who might they listen to as their Spiritual leader? Can they be contained or controlled? I don't think anyone has answers for this questions. Clearly what inspires these young men is not interest and nothing but religion, agreed to that, however, unfortunately in the wrong path, and that's why I see them as a very dangerous movement, I have never been so much frightened from any Somali group like them, and we will witness what they will come up with next...

 

All I see is a gathared youth so energetic willing to die and kill for what they believe, inspired by religion(wrongly so), with no known religious nor political leader and have no feasible mission to achieve, forcefully trying and doing it nevertheless and on the route justifying the murder of many innocents...

the outcome is a disaster if you ask me.

Allow me to quote your brilliant remarks.