Thierry. Posted April 8, 2008 On one hand they fight courageously against the Ethiopian occupation. On the other hand they indiscriminately attack civilians and other AU troops. Some of the news coming from media back home is deeply worrying; it appears that Al Shabaab are out of control. They are not affiliated with Sheikh Sharif’s group and they do not have points or ideologies that one can negotiate with. I believe Al Shabaab is and will be the next biggest (fitna) for Somalia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emperor Posted April 8, 2008 ^Yes I do agree with you Toure on this one, beyond any disagreement we ever had and any interclan conflict Somalis ever witnessed, this is the greatest challenge and risk that the country and the people will have to come to terms with... We can get rid of dictators, colonialists, warlords and any other power that's interested in power and material world but it's hard to defeat an idealogy, it is even worse when the elements that carry the ideology is within yourself... I pray and hope good for Somalia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fabregas Posted April 9, 2008 Ducada badi marka! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacaylbaro Posted April 9, 2008 The title is misleadeing sxb ,,,,,, AlShabaab are not in dilemma, they have an ideology and they want to implement that ideology which means they don't give damn who is with them and who is not. That is why they disagree with Sh. Sharif and other members of ICU ,,,,,, I can't say they will be the next biggest fitna as Somalia has already the biggest fitna who are the Xabashis ,,,, but i can call them the Mini-Alqaeda in Somalia. They share the ideology with Alqaeda, Taleban and others in the similar thinking and path. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fabregas Posted April 9, 2008 quote:the biggest fitna who are the Xabashis Manta, I agree with you... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacaylbaro Posted April 9, 2008 U must ,,,,,,,, no other choices ,, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
me Posted April 9, 2008 Toure, do you disagree with them because of their tactics or because their ideology doesn't appeal to you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emperor Posted April 9, 2008 Toure used the word 'Fitna'. Now unless you derive a whole new meaning for the word, there is no way that can be classified with the TFG and the Ethiopian forces, you may have other terms for them such as Occupying/peace keeping forces and traitors or the Somali army.... it's your personal choice... Fitna is widely known as an Islamic civil war amongst the Muslims which is based on ideology or sects and groups that lead to the disagreement of the Muslim Ulema and gives the green light for the beheading of innocent Muslims while using religion to justify it... Fitna from Wikipedia: It is often used to refer to civil war, disagreement and division within Islam and specifically alludes to a time involving trials of faith, similar to the Tribulation in Christian eschatology. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fabregas Posted April 9, 2008 Fitna is used in the Quran to also denote non believers fighting Muslims. It's not just related to discord between Muslims groups. So occupation can come under the umbrella of Fitna or Fitan! The Biggest fitna in Somalia is probably tribalism, disunity and lack of creating a united government. I don't agee with Jacaylbro after all. Xabashis are a part of the Fitna, but they are not the cause of it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kashafa Posted April 9, 2008 You seem to have good intentions, T. Laakin jah-wareer xun baa ku haayo. No worries, waa ku daawaynaynaa inshallah. But before that a quick fact-check on that conjecture-laden post of yours. On one hand they fight courageously against the Ethiopian occupation. On the other hand they indiscriminately attack civilians and other AU troops Evidence ? None ? I mean brah, if you're gonna indict the Resistance on murder counts, you probably should provide solid evidence to buttress your case. Let me reword it for you: You're accusing the Resistance of deliberately attacking civilians. Not only a clear falsehood and Zenawi, Inc's favorite talking point, but a ridiculous one at that. What does the Resistance gain from attacking civilians ?(remember, TFG officials do not count as civilians) How does it feel to unwittingly advance the Ethiopian agenda on the Internet ? Maybe what you were trying to say was: In the course of their operations and as the result of Ethiopian shelling, civilians do get hurt. Show me a war where civilians don't get hurt and I'll go back to hibernation. The other mistake you made: Since when is it a crime to attack the AU troops ? Who gave them authority to come to Somalia ? Were they not forewarned that if they did come to Somalia, they would be attacked, since they are supporting the genocidal occupation ? You could argue from a strategic point of view, that there isn't as much to be gained from attacking the Ugandans as there is to be gained from attacking the Tigrays. That's a solid argument(one I agree with). But it is no crime to attack any foreign troops who come to Somalia to support the Tigray/TFG alliance. If you are saying that the presence of the AU troops is legitimate and they are there 'to help the Somali people in their hour of need', please make that clear. They are not affiliated with Sheikh Sharif’s group and they do not have points or ideologies that one can negotiate with Another unsubstantiated wide-sweeping statement with nothing to back it up. a) They are a integral and most important part of the ARS(even if they say otherwise, it's called political jockeying). b) Their objectives can be summed up in 3 points: 1) Get the F out of my country. 2)Bring every treasonous dhabo-dhilif to trial. Hang them. 3) Build a Somalia that is wholly-owned and wholly run by Somali Muslims. Do you disagree with any of those 3 points ? Furthermore, what do you mean 'one can negotiate with' ? What do you want them to compromise on ? I believe Al Shabaab is and will be the next biggest (fitna) for Somalia If you really mean that, then you, brother, are as bright as the couch potatoes who believed that Saddam Hussein had WMDs. All it took to convince them was a fabricated performance by Colin Powell at the UN. They got a word for that in the English language: Gullible, the Somali equivalent would be: Suufi, I guess. A couple of other points: - The so-called rift between the Resistance leadership in Asmara and the ground forces in Somalia, is one of the myths that has developed over the past 15 months. There is a healthy disagreement and somewhat of a disconnect between the Asmara leadership and the throughbreds on the ground, but when push comes to shove, hal meel bay kasoo wada jeestaan. Anyhow, political figures(ARS) have no business telling military forces how to run a guerrilla campaign. It's like a shrink telling a surgeon how to excise a tumor from the brain of the patient. The shrink can advise the surgeon on how various surgical procedures may affect the patient, but he dares not tell the surgeon how to do the operation. Awkward analogy, but you get the point. -Gratitude is in order, abti. Without the heroic halgan of the Resistance over the past 15 months, you would be naught but a Ethiopian conquest living in the Diaspora. Another troubling sign for you: You seem to be more genuinely worried about an Islamically-run Somalia, rather than focusing on the most crucial issue facing the entirety of Somali-dom: Ethiopian hegemony. Tell me, brother. What horrific 'fitna' happened when Resistance members were and are being welcomed in town after town, some without a single shot being fired ? Both back in summer/fall of '06 and the present day ? The same caliber of men that were fighting then are fighting now. You judge a man by his past performance. Their track record is creating an oasis of peace, tolerance, and social equality in 70% percent of Somalia. In the miraculous time-frame of 6 months. What would they have done in 6 years ? My advice to you is to do a comprehensive in-depth analysis of the situation in Somalia. Dispense with preconceptions and Waxa-la-Yiri. Lay aside any objections you may have to methods used or ideology(much ado about nothing). Look at the cold hard unforgiving facts and the reality on the ground, and armed with that evidence, come to a conclusion about the way forward. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emperor Posted April 9, 2008 AbuGeeljire, In that context Fitna means disbelief... The Ayaha says: (8:39) "So fight them until there is no more disbelief (fitnah) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone" Or ..."Waqaatiluhum Xata la takuuna Fitna". In this context Fitna = disbelief/Gaalo/Kufr... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fabregas Posted April 9, 2008 Indeed it does, but it's also related to disbelievers who are fighting Muslims, ie the second part of the Ayah...... Fight them until there is no more discord and the religion belongs to Allah alone. If they cease, there should be no enmity towards any but wrongdoers. (2:193) This is the interpretation given by Ibn Kather: quote:(But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against the wrongdoers.) indicates that, `If they stop their Shirk and fighting the believers, then cease warfare against them. Whoever fights them afterwards will be committing an injustice. Verily aggression can only be started against the unjust.' This is the meaning of Mujahid's statement that only combatants should be fought. Or, the meaning of the Ayah indicates that, `If they abandon their injustice, which is Shirk in this case, then do not start aggression against them afterwards.' The aggression here means retaliating and fighting them, just as Allah said: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emperor Posted April 9, 2008 ^Saaxib I agree with you but without complicating the issue fighting agaisnt the Kufr is Jihaad and not Fitnah, and in your interpretation Fitnah = Gaalo... Which again fighting against that Fitnah becomes Jihaad... But on the Whole the word Fitnah is ragarded and widely used as a Muslim civil war that based on groups and different ideologies... There So many different meaing of the word UMMA in the Quran as well, but it is widely used for the nation al Islam... Very simple... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fabregas Posted April 9, 2008 quote:Now unless you derive a whole new meaning for the word, there is no way that can be classified with the TFG and the Ethiopian forces. Akhi, that is what you wrote. I'm saying they can indeed be described as a fitna on both accounts of the mentioned Surah: 1, They are Gaalo commiting Shirk 2. They invaded a Muslim land and are fighting them, as they've been doing for 500 years! Good Morning 2 all! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emperor Posted April 9, 2008 ^Good morning to you brother, Saaxib Ood jiidideeda iyo qaadideeda waa un guri geyn, isku meel baan wax uwadnaa so lets leave there... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
