Qanyare and co: would-be African chiefs for slave trade

[xiinfaniin]

Remember American slave trade that commenced early 1600s and continued to the dawn of 19th century. Did you ever think how that major economic enterprise grew and expanded? If you did, couldn’t you help but notice the not-so-small role that the native hands of African elders and chiefs played in that evil project? There could be many reasons for why the Somali race was spared from European/American slave trade in Africa but I always credited it to the nature of our nomadic culture and our Islamic faith. Save from few lost souls or groups, Somalis have been respectable and noble people. Unfortunately that is no longer the case. Things have considerably changed. Especially in the new Somali culture of political worlordism, it has clearly become fashionable to engage in a criminal enterprise analogous to that of slave trade. Men like Mohamed Dheere, Qanyare, Bashir Rage and co, who, sadly, have been leading some communities in the south, publicly announced that they would capture and sell Islamist elements in Mogadishu to the interested parties in the west. Some of them have already made a fortune out of that immoral venture.

 

Although Mogadishu masses have reversed any progress these men made and significantly restored that community’s (our) dignity, still I could not control my curiosity as what would happen if the whites of colonial years came ashore on where men like these rule the day! Wouldn’t it be a plausible that these men would sell us to the slave merchants and that we would be planting crops in America’s southern plantations. I say it is. Some of you may list all the major crimes that Somali warlords committed in the last 16 years and I would nod my head in agreement. I know that there have been summary killings of innocent lives. I know that faithful and pious virgins have been rapped and their innocence robbed from them. I know that some communities have been wronged and their land taken from them. I also know that there’s a semi-officially supported and active waste dumping and human trafficking with a huge human and environmental cost in and around our oceans. I also know that it’s these very warlords who trampled our nation and its civilization. I know all of that. But none of it is even remotely equal or is as horrendous as hunting fellow Somalis for profit gains, I argue. To entertain this notion or the mere thought of it, much less do it, should make anyone with the slightest of a conscience shiver to his core. It is unheard of in our long history.

 

To control the shame and stop this new political worlordism and its peculiar norm is a one more reason to support Islamic courts, I say. What do you say?

[Castro]

I don't know, good Xiin. Killing and raping the innocent is more grave than hunting down someone for bounty.

 

Hopefully the courts will go all the way and capture or kill these criminals. It would be really nice to have the Americans see just how well their money was spent by the warlords. They'd use the last remaining dollars dressed as women trying to escape the major towns.

 

I'd also like to see the courts take down Abdillahi Yuusuf and his globe-trotting junta in Baydhaba. Basically go all the way and rid the nation of all the warlords.

[NGONGE]

Heh. I agree with the general sentiment but could not help being tickled by the weakness of your argument, saaxib. With no research to back you up, no examples from history and no statistics to show, you’ve decided to state that the Somalis of the past NEVER sold their fellow Somalis in the way that some might do today! I almost punched the screen with indignation there! Where is the nationalism? Where is the brotherhood? Where is the fear of god?

 

Of course, I say I almost punched the screen, but I did not. That I didn’t is due to a word that floated in my mind as I read your musings about slavery! The word was BANTU. Maybe, that was not the angle you were aiming at and the Bantus didn’t cross your mind. I suppose it’s possible that the slavery that appalled you was the one where the buyer was white and not a Muslim Somali! I somehow doubt it though; you’re usually fair and just in your assessments and it’s highly doubtful that you would let yourself get caught out like that. Lets just say that driven with emotion and anger, and wanting to show us how ghastly those warlords were, you let your usual standards slightly slip and allowed your emotions to rewrite history!

 

On a serious note, I actually find myself agreeing with you there. Not because I’m a great supporter of the so-called Islamic courts. To tell the truth, I hardly know what those courts are like and if they are actually genuine. All I know about them is received from Western sources (whom I’m aware would put their own tilt on the way they present matters). So, as you can see, I can’t support them just because they adorned the Islamic cloak. However, anyone that can batter those warlords and have total control over the capital city of Somalia is someone that I would root for, time will tell if they turn out to be good or bad (though, naturally, one hopes they’re good).

 

So, yes, without any fanfare or convoluted historical lessons, whatever you were trying to sell in this thread of yours has been happily bought by this contented customer.

 

PS

Lets just hope that they don’t follow the Hamas way of government or make the mistakes that other ‘Islamic’ group is making.

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

I also know that there’s a semi-officially supported and active waste dumping and human trafficking with a huge human and environmental cost in and around our oceans. I also know that it’s these very warlords who trampled our nation and its civilization. I know all of that. But none of it is even remotely equal or is as horrendous as hunting fellow Somalis for profit gains, I argue.

I disagree mate. I think the human smugglers have exercised a certain level of heartlessness to be the most suitable candidates for the title of "would be slave trader".

[Viking]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

But none of it is even remotely equal or is as horrendous as hunting fellow Somalis for profit gains, I argue.

xiinfaniin,

Somalis sold Ethiopian slaves centuries ago and even though Somalis have forgotten it Ethiopians haven't. Perhaps this part of our history has something to do with the way the Ethiopians have conducted or aligned themselves with various Somali groups.

 

I think a killer is a killer, whether he kills his brother, his neighbour or a stranger. Even though we see it differing degrees, the penalty is the same soomaha? Similiarly, a warlord who decides to capture and sell Somali slaves wouldn't be more malignant than a warlord that decides to deal with Oromo slaves.

 

 

Especially in the new Somali culture of political worlordism, it has clearly become fashionable to engage in a criminal enterprise analogous to that of slave trade. Men like Mohamed Dheere, Qanyare, Bashir Rage and co, who, sadly, have been leading some communities in the south, publicly announced that they would capture and sell Islamist elements in Mogadishu to the interested parties in the west. Some of them have already made a fortune out of that immoral venture.

These are as criminal as the Russian or Italian maffia, all they think about is money. They have been recieving money from the USA for the past four years or so and this was made possible because of the ignorance of the imperialist Americans who have been milked by these gluttonous warlords claiming to fight "terrorism".

 

 

There could be many reasons for why the Somali race was spared from European/American slave trade in Africa but I always credited it to the nature of our nomadic culture and our Islamic faith. Save from few lost souls or groups, Somalis have been respectable and noble people.

Nobility sounds good but I think it has more to do with the fact that Somalis are neither artisans nor agrarians. What would a slave owner do with a pastoralist? Not much!

[xiinfaniin]

Castro, I too surely hope that IC will eventually defeat all current warlords. As for your take on my larger thesis, I note your reservation, and it’s difficult, I agree, to conclude that rape or a murder is less a crime than selling your fellow brother/sister for financial gains. On grounds of both religion and reason one would be hardly pressed to choose between equally horrible crimes, I would also agree. But is it not more likely than not that the outcome of such very activity (selling some Somalis to the interested western intelligence entities) could eventually be rape or murder? Implicit in my argument is a claim of mine that asserts that although Somali history is punctuated by horrific scenes of killings and in some instances by acts of rape, selling fellow Somalis is a phenomenon that’s markedly new to us. When a familiar crime (murder, rape etc) is committed in a manner that’s wantonly irreligious it sure becomes more distinctive, and potentially harsher, hence my conclusion.

 

NGONGE, it’s very generous of you to give me benefit of the doubt. You are not far from the mark to suggest that emotion and anger had something to do with my thread. But they had zilch to do with the central point of my argument. My standards have not slipped. True that I am taking you back in time, but I am not revising history at all. And if the oral Somali history is something to go by, I might have not missed much at all. Unlike Arabs and despite our cultural proximity with them, Somalis had no tradition of enslaving its own race much less engage in an enterprise of slave trade. There had been countless accounts of fierce and bloody inter-clan conflicts throughout old Somali history but I heard or saw nothing to suggest that Somalis practiced slavery at all.

 

There were instances of slavery in southern Somalia but even in those instances both sellers and buyers were not Somalis by ethnicity. Case in point: Mogadishu, Merca, and Brava were the only Somali cities that saw a slave trade. All those cities were under the rule of the infamous Sultan of Zanzibar. The victims were not Somalis and were abducted from far away lands. The whole operation was orchestrated by an Arab regime, and bore all the characteristics of that ancient and cruel Middle Eastern slavery culture. When the ex-slaves of Bantu origins finally found their escape routs deep in to the Juba valley region and away from Arab coastal towns they peacefully settled without fear from neighboring Somali clans. A historical fact that revisionist west tries very hard to deny. The reason was very simple: Somalis were uninitiated in this whole business. It was quite alien to them and they showed no interest in engaging it. They had a peculiar nomadic culture that cherished personal freedom and liberty, not to mention that they were practicing Muslims who truly appreciated their faith’s fundamental teachings. Remember the Somali trinity (so to speak); the clan whose loyalty they swore, the camel for whose possession they killed, and Islam, their faith whose teaching they wanted to uphold and spread.

 

Now with the introduction of political warlordism things have considerably changed and morals have gotten relaxed even more. The emergence of men like Qanyare and co who revere no religious boundary and value no cultural consideration have spelled danger to our basic social moorings, I argue. If we reverse passage of time, these men would not be different, unlike our pastoral elders of yesteryears, than those notorious African chiefs who participated in that shameful project of hunting, abducting, capturing alive and chaining their fellow brethren to be enslaved in distant lands. They would do all of that for a mere financial gains. There is no doubt in my mind that entire Somali clans would’ve vanished in the southern plantations in America had these men been in a position to do so. Whether one has reservation about Islamic Courts or not, when confronted with men like these one would understandably be supportive of any operation to eliminate them. Thinking what Qanyare and co could’ve been capable of doing had the opportunity came to them, I thought, is a one more reason to oppose them. It might even persuade and convince few clannish souls who would otherwise support them. Wishful thinking it may be but it sure is a worthy effort.

 

Ayoub Sheekh, although I did not get what you are objecting to, you are not far from my stance, I gather, if your signature gives the slightest hint of your overall philosophy.

Shif u dhimo nin ragi waa geyaa sharafna nooloow'e . wixii u dhexeeyaa waa waxaan nin rag ah qaban. The would-be slave trade title is a fitting one, I insist, to these immoral men. What else would you call them yaa Ayoub?

 

Vikingow , I disagree with your assessment saaxiib. And even though I have not heard Somalis selling captured Ethiopians before, enslaving enemy combatants is a lot different than calculatingly hunting your own brethren for profit gains. There is also a world of deference between Russian mafia groups and Somali warlords. Understandable is for an underground mafia group to form and secretly engage in criminal enterprise. But for a political entity to be founded exclusively for the function of selling fellow Muslims with different ideology is incomprehensible, I say! It’s that kind of platform that’s unprecedented in the long Somali political/cultural history. And although you may be right in the reasons you cited for Somalis to be spared from that eventful (with agony and pain, that is) history of slave trade, mine also bear some relevance to the issue at hand, and a source of nobility they indeed remain!

 

P.S: I have been busy and could not respond in time. Raali ahaada saaxiibayaal!

[Jamilah]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Remember American slave trade that commenced early 1600s and continued to the dawn of 19th century. Did you ever think how that major economic enterprise grew and expanded? If you did, couldn’t you help but notice the not-so-small role that the native hands of African elders and chiefs played in that evil project? There could be many reasons for why the Somali race was spared from European/American slave trade in Africa but I always credited it to the nature of our nomadic culture and our Islamic faith. Save from few lost souls or groups, Somalis have been respectable and noble people. Unfortunately that is no longer the case. Things have considerably changed. Especially in the new Somali culture of political worlordism, it has clearly become fashionable to engage in a criminal enterprise analogous to that of slave trade. Men like Mohamed Dheere, Qanyare, Bashir Rage and co, who, sadly, have been leading some communities in the south, publicly announced that they would capture and sell Islamist elements in Mogadishu to the interested parties in the west. Some of them have already made a fortune out of that immoral venture.

 

Although Mogadishu masses have reversed any progress these men made and significantly restored that community’s (our) dignity, still I could not control my curiosity as what would happen if the whites of colonial years came ashore on where men like these rule the day! Wouldn’t it be a plausible that these men would sell us to the slave merchants and that we would be planting crops in America’s southern plantations. I say it is. Some of you may list all the major crimes that Somali warlords committed in the last 16 years and I would nod my head in agreement. I know that there have been summary killings of innocent lives. I know that faithful and pious virgins have been rapped and their innocence robbed from them. I know that some communities have been wronged and their land taken from them. I also know that there’s a semi-officially supported and active waste dumping and human trafficking with a huge human and environmental cost in and around our oceans. I also know that it’s these very warlords who trampled our nation and its civilization. I know all of that. But none of it is even remotely equal or is as horrendous as hunting fellow Somalis for profit gains, I argue. To entertain this notion or the mere thought of it, much less do it, should make anyone with the slightest of a conscience shiver to his core. It is unheard of in our long history.

 

To control the shame and stop this new political worlordism and its peculiar norm is a one more reason to support Islamic courts, I say. What do you say?

With all due respect Xin I am dumb founded! Is there a purpose to comparing the repercussions of a hypothetical situation to the very real tragedies and horrors that have occurred in the past and are still happening presently in our nation? You claim you will readily acknowledge the occurrences of past crimes and to this I find myself asking then why continue with your “argumentâ€, to investigate which ill is more of an ill?

 

I personally am very supportive of the Islamic courts being implemented in Somalia and unlike many I remain hopeful and not merely cynical. But I do not think your thread is very persuasive and does little credit to the views you are trying to articulate.

 

Sorry if I come off a bit too strong and emotional, but I speak on behalf every individual tortured, murdered and rapped.

[xiinfaniin]

^^It was just a thought, good Jamilah!

 

Never meant to trivialize the real tragedies of Somali civil war. In fact, I was trying to highlight the evil nature of the men who caused it. And although it’s a hypothetical of sort to speculate what would these warlords do had they lived in those fateful slavery days, their present conduct and public pronouncements are clear signs that attest to the validity of my assessment of them. Granted that a discussion about Somalia’s raw wounds is not the stuff of the faint-hearted, but it is not, (and frankly it shouldn’t be), a source of astonishment either.

[Viking]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Vikingow , I disagree with your assessment saaxiib. And even though I have not heard Somalis selling captured Ethiopians before, enslaving enemy combatants is a lot different than calculatingly hunting your own brethren for profit gains. There is also a world of deference between Russian mafia groups and Somali warlords. Understandable is for an underground mafia group to form and secretly engage in criminal enterprise. But for a political entity to be founded exclusively for the function of selling fellow Muslims with different ideology is incomprehensible, I say! It’s that kind of platform that’s unprecedented in the long Somali political/cultural history. And although you may be right in the reasons you cited for Somalis to be spared from that eventful (with agony and pain, that is) history of slave trade, mine also bear some relevance to the issue at hand, and a source of nobility they indeed remain!

I think I read about Ethiopians being sold as slaves during the time of the Imam especially when the Ethiopian highlands were under Somali rule. It is said that these slaves were sold off to the Middle East and some as far as India and Bangladesh. Whether true or false, Allah knows!

 

The only difference between the Russian Maffia, the Italian Maffia and the Somali warlords is that the first two are under the constraints and the watchful eyes of govts with potency. Remove the govts from the equaltion and they will be just as barbaric if not worse than the Somali warlords. If in the near future a firm and stable govt is established in Somalia, it wouldn't be inconceivable that the spread remnants will continue to work underground in a similar fashion to other common maffia organisation.

 

It is sad what the warlords have put the Somali people through, but selling them as slaves wouldn't (for the individual) be worse than rape, mutilation, murder and all the other dreadful sins they have committed towards their brethren. But it might have a more profound impact on the society and its psyche.

[Jamilah]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

^^It was just a thought, good Jamilah!

 

Never meant to trivialize the real tragedies of Somali civil war. In fact, I was trying to highlight the evil nature of the men who caused it. And although it’s a hypothetical of sort to speculate what would these warlords do had they lived in those fateful slavery days, their present conduct and public pronouncements are clear signs that attest to the validity of my assessment of them. Granted that a discussion about Somalia’s raw wounds is not the stuff of the faint-hearted, but it is not, (and frankly it shouldn’t be), a source of astonishment either.

My objection is the fact that you likened what we agree is a non-existent crime to the evil actions of our countrymen. That my brother was my source of astonishment!

 

Faint-hearted?, I don't think it is fair you dismissed my views as a timorous response .

[xiinfaniin]

Jamilah, I should’ve qualified that ‘faint-hearted’ statement or perhaps should’ve avoided using it all together. That was a lapse of mine! What I meant to say though was exploring such thesis of mine requires intellectual courage of sort. I wasn’t dismissing your view ‘as a timorous response’. I do hold you in much higher regard than that. Your sentiment was similar to that of Castro’s and, if you cared to read, I have acknowledged and addressed it indeed. Choosing among equally horrible crimes creates moral quandary, I wrote. But one needs to rise above what seems to me as a literalist analysis on the issue I raised and carefully weigh potential social impact it could have on the larger socio-political settings of our nation had these warlords gotten their way. That much i demand !

 

 

And one last thing you should know, good Jamilah, is the fact that good Xiin would be the last person to quarrel with prudent Jamilah while there is an opportunity of escape !

 

Vikings, though you are still clinging to the comparison of the two, an exercise whose difficulty I conceded mind you, your ‘social impact’ comment, nevertheless, is a welcome breeze for me saaxiib! waan ku diirsaday inaad garatay the profound impact such practice could have! Wouldn’t you agree then that the practice of these men is akin to that of slave-gatherers of yesteryears?

[rudy-Diiriye]

boohoo! so now whipping women, marrying dozen virgins and certifying it with mis-interpreted religion is what u clapping for xin!

 

i say our ppl r between a rock n a hard place! both can hurt the bone! pass the sword xin! too much of blood has already being spilled!! how many that will die, will be recorded by history and the one above!! looks like mali tide has turned away once again!!

[Sniper]

The Warlords must be stopped. America is giving money to ppl who will not deliver results. The truth is Somalis are betrayed by these warlords and USA stood by watching our suffering and doing nothing. Today our clergy and religious teachers stood up and brought change. Also Somalia and Somalis have nothing to do with terror, our plate is full. So America should open diplomacy and relations with the Islamic courts if they want Somalia not to be hotbed for extremists. But if they only want to make sure no terrorists goes to Somalia but Somalia to be ravaged by the warlords, then we rally behind our MADRASSA teachers and the Imams of the local mosque.

For us Somalis, we need to decide and for one moment, stop supporting our warlords who bankrupted our tribes and the country in general (all of us pay tribal dues from our small hard earned paychecks) and support and give a chance to the WADAADADA, we know they're honest and THEY know that TERRORIST'S war is not our war, neither is Bush's war on terror is our war. We tired and we have to decide what is good for us. From record we know Arabs are not our friends, they even didnt let us flee to their countries, and we know the warlords sold fishing rights for few bucks, so lets decide who is good for us (the little guys) and i think it is the Islamic courts.

Lets not loose this chance, when Mogadishu is under control of one honest ppl, those are the Islamic courts.

And remember if Somalia was in peace right now, you would have SAVED that $100 you taking to Dabshiil, coz ppl will be earning a living. So lets not loose this chance of bringing peace, lets tell Bush to support the ISLAMIC courts if he is honest about Somalia not being terrorist haven.

[-Lily-]

Scenarios such as the one in Jowhar (as I heard from a family friend) where newborns are taxed, where family members are randomly arrested and money demanded because they have not paid their ‘tax’ (ignore the fact that they might have had one meal that day). Another example retold to us by an uncle detailed the case where militia (under instructions to make money by the ‘Big Guys’) have stolen hospital equipment donated by Western charities and thus demanding the fee of $300 (or an amount along those lines) for the use of these by desperate women in labour needing Caesarean assisted operation to deliver the baby safely. In this particular case, the man brought his wife in a wagon, and returned home with her (thankfully she had natural birth along the way) because he couldn’t afford the 300. These acts rank equally immoral as those who sell their fellow brothers. A mother might tell you these kinds of people are the worst criminals, a rape victim otherwise.

 

The majority of us know what is extremely criminal, our own consciousness and our life experiences decide what degree of extreme immorality we attach to the act. On the whole I do think selling your fellow Somalis to torture & a Guntanomo Bay fait ranks up there with the worst. Now and then we see crimes that shock us further, this is just one of them. Regardless of whether Somalia practiced slavery or not I’m glad these warlords were not around during that age.

[xiinfaniin]

^^right on yaa Waterly!

 

Islamic Courts in Mogadishu don’t have all the answers for Somalia’s problems but they sure are correct to fight these warlords! The fact that they won is a welcome news to most of us (there are always aimless clannish souls who would oppose them simply because their tribe is not represented, or they think so anyway)!

 

Abducting fellow Muslims and selling them to a people who have no moral constrain (abu gurayb was just the tip of iceberg) is not only a heinous crime but it is also a new phenomenon to our society as well. It didn’t happen before in our land, at least not in the scale by which these men would carry it out if they were left unchecked. Islamist element’s political life in Somalia, before and after the civil war, has not been a walk on the park, so to speak, and there have been political and social challenges to their Islamic reawakening ideas from the outset of their movement, I note, but resorting to sell them to foreign entities is singularly shameful and unfamiliar practice, I hope you would agree.

 

When the Italian colonial forces detained Kenedid, the Sultan of Hopyo then, and as they wished to engage political negotiations with Sayid Mohamed of Darwiish movement, the Sayid, out of Somali nobility and perhaps with a bit of political shrewdness, made Kenedid’s release a precondition for the negotiations to proceed. That was surprising to the Italians because Kenedid was one of the major opponents of Darwish movement. I still remember Sayid’s verses to convey that point:

 

Talyaan koofiyadweynow

Dabadeed aad kulantooo

Kadabkaa shubatee

Kenediid ma waddaa?

 

If I remember it right (and I will stand corrected) the Italians caved in and released Kenediid! Campare that with today’s Somalis, the likes of Qanyare and co, and you can clearly see the difference between the two. I know that I am unfairly comparing a great Somali legend with a bunch of gutless warlords yet the point I am trying to make warrants it and the moral disparity between our generation and Sayid’s sadly exists.