Interview: Abdinur Darman, Somalia's disputed president

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Interview: Abdinur Darman, Somalia's disputed president

Grahame Bennett

Middle East Times

April 19, 2007

 

Somalia's disputed president

 

NICOSIA -- Abdinur Ahmed Darman says he is the president of Somalia - a claim that the international community does not recognize. The leader of Somalia's dominant Hawiya clan declared himself head of state in Mogadishu July 2003 at the time Somalia already had a president-in-exile, Abdiqasim Salad Hassan.

 

That was because Darman refuses to accept the authority of the transitional parliament in neighboring Djibouti that elected Abdiqasim in 2001.

 

Since the dictator Said Barre was toppled in 1991 the war-torn country has had no effective central government and had been run by independent warlords and ethnic tribal militias.

 

In August 2004 politicians, warlords, and clan leaders agreed a new parliament and president under a transitional government, called the Transitional Federal Government (TFG). But the TFG split into opposing factions.

 

Ethiopian troops deployed in the country to help TFG soldiers defeat an alliance of clan leaders and militants that united to form a rival administration. Fighting continues, and this month Somalia has seen its worst fighting in 15 years.

 

Darman has called on all foreign troops to leave to give Somalis a chance to solve their own problems.

 

He agreed to be interviewed by the Middle East Times. Excerpts from that interview follow:

 

Q: Why do you claim to be the president of Somalia?

 

I was elected June 5, 2003 inside Somalia. And, of course, it was celebrated by Somalis all over the world.

 

In August 12, 2004 Abdiqasim Salad Hassan was reelected by his parliament in Djibouti. [Abdiqasim served as president-in-exile in Djibouti from 2001-2004.] That parliament was recognized by the United Nations.

 

That parliament then called Abdiqasim for another election, because his staff was fired. He did not win that election and so they wanted to nominate another president. But parliament itself said, "Wait, the public wants this man [Darman]. If they nominate another man in Somalia there will be a problem. We will choose him again."

 

When that happened, the parliament in Djibouti - which I didn't recognize anyway - told me, "first you have to accept and recognize us because we want to elect you again." I said, "you cannot elect me. The public elected me. You can affirm the election of the public." And for the purposes of technicality, I was sworn in a second time by parliament [in Somalia].

 

Q: When was that?

 

That was August 12, 2004. So, I became the only president that was elected twice, sworn in twice.

 

When that happened ... Abdiqasim went to elections in Nairobi and lost to Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed. [Abdullahi was elected president of the TFG by a session of the Transitional Government Parliament in Nairobi and sworn in October 14, 2004.]

 

Now, when that happened, the government that was elected overseas - outside the country - could not come into the country. They were rejected by the public. So, they asked for international support to assist them to get in. For a year-and-a-half they did not go in.

 

Then they came up with the word "terrorists," extremist Islamists. What extremists? The young people became angry and more radicalized. They started to talk crazy. We needed to have rules and regulations. They were temporary.

 

Then they brought Abdullahi Yusuf to Baidoa [city in central Somalia]. When he came to Baidoa he couldn't stay. The public was not happy. You'll remember they tried to kill him twice in Baidoa. But we think he was staging those attacks to entice the international community to attack.

 

So, then countries got together and said, "we'll attack Mogadishu and force [Abdullahi] to be accepted."

 

So, the Ethiopians troops came in and said they can do it - but they cannot. Now they are losing men. There is a war going on, even now. Firefights. So the Ethiopians are thinking about going out.

 

You notice ... that [with] the last four agreements. The ceasefire - they signed it with Hawiya [tribe]. They didn't sign with Abdullahi Yusuf. So, it shows you that he doesn't exist, actually.

 

The war now is such a way that the so-called African Union peacekeepers were supposed to come to Somalia under UN Resolution 1725 [of December 2006] that says "no border country can come in, only other countries." So, Uganda came in and others want to come in to keep peace. What peace are they going to keep? You have to agree what kind of peace to keep first. So, the Ugandans are losing men. Ethiopians are losing men. Somalis are losing.

 

So, the best thing to do is for everyone to leave Somalia, because we want to run our own country.

 

Q: Have you been ousted?

 

I was in the country when the Ethiopian troops came in. They were very good to me. They did not attack my people. In fact they said, "This is the president." They kicked [out] other people who were causing a problem. Up to now, my cabinet is working, our office is working. I went to the United States to find out what is going on.

 

Q: So, you can freely leave and enter Somalia?

 

They cannot touch me because we are the Somali power base. They know that.

 

Q: Why did you go to America, to find out what?

 

A lot of things. I met a lot of people.

 

Q: You went to the State Department?

 

I didn't go that far yet. I wanted to see the feeling from some members of Congress. And now, when I return, I will meet with them, yes.

 

Q: Somalis have been accused of being terrorists, Islamist militias. What good have you done, what have you actually accomplished?

 

First of all, it is not quite accurate to talk about Islamist militia. It is a regular militia that is comprised from the Somali people who are uprising against everybody. The Islamist and radical parties are no longer there.

 

Peace had returned. People could safely drive their cars. We set up the court system. We reestablished security, the police. The public know that we can do it again, if the Ethiopians leave.

 

And now some of the areas that the Ethiopians are out of are back to normal. People can go to stores, they can buy things. Our troops are controlling those areas - and they are not militia, they are troops. They are Somali government troops.

 

Q: I heard that some refugees have returned, but with the escalation of fighting, especially in the last few days, they want to leave again.

 

Look at the UN reports from September and October [2006]. People were driving their own cars. Safety had returned. People want to invest in the country. Doctors came in from other countries, from Egypt, from Yemen. They came from Sudan, from Kenya, even Ethiopian teachers - just came. To teach something in schools. They get paid, of course. Private schools and private hospitals hire them.

 

Now, outsiders ... want to take us back to square one. We're not going to accept that.

 

Q: Reports say that Islamists have vowed a guerrilla war against the Ethiopians.

 

No, this is not true. This is face-to-face fighting. We are not hiding. The press is giving that impression. The word "insurgents" and all that stuff. Abdullahi's is not a recognized government. The [top military] Ethiopian [officials] are dealing with us directly, through the clan system.

 

At the same time, the [most recent] escalation [of hostilities] was caused when Abdullahi Yusuf and Ethiopians in a radio announcement said, "Everyone leave your houses, but leave all your utensils and your chairs there."

 

Why? It means, "we've taken over. We've taken over everything. Your house is now mine." That's exactly what it is. And the people say, "over my dead body."

 

Q: You've compared this with the Israelis' occupation of the Palestinians. So, you define this as an occupation?

 

It is an occupation. Even the UN doesn't accept it. Even the Europeans have told the Ethiopian troops ... 'get out, you cannot stay.'

 

And they will get out.

 

Q: And is the US backing the Ethiopian troops?

 

I don't know what that means, and I don't know anything about that.

 

Q: Because Washington believes that some of the militias are linked to Al Qaeda, and that if their power base is not removed, Somalia will become a hotbed of terrorism.

 

I am not Al Qaeda. I don't speak Arabic either. The people in Somalia are fighting for their lives. They don't care about anybody outside. Somalis have always been at war and they know how to fight. They haven't been trained by outsiders.

 

Q: Some analysts fear that Ethiopia and Eritrea may fight a proxy war in Somalia. Do you see any likelihood of that?

 

No, I don't think so. Look at the [good] relationship [that exists] between Eritrea and Somalia and Ethiopia and Somalia; a large portion of Somalis live in Ethiopia.

 

And Eritrea, we don't know too much. We shall see what they do. It's probably just for the news. I don't see anything for them.

 

Anyway, we can fight for ourselves. We have done it before. Even the Ethiopian soldiers in Somalia are selling their weapons. They want to get out. All of them are leaving. The refugees going to Yemen now are Ethiopian soldiers who don't want to fight.

 

Q: A National Reconciliation Conference was to have been held April 16, but the Arab League postponed it for a month. Why did they do that?

 

Because I refused to go there. There's no peace. There's nothing to negotiate. Everyone has to leave [somalia] first.

 

Q: Why won't you go?

 

Another lie.

 

Q: Which is?

 

You see, there were 14 conferences on Somalia outside the country. What we did in Somalia is there. I don't understand why they have to invent every day a new one. Why can't they have a continuation? If we go [to] another one, it's like zero again.

 

The information that you are getting [is] as an outsider, then you are not sure what is going on. Think about it: 14 times it failed. What makes it possible? This is the 15th time. Why do you think it'll work the 16th time? Stay out of it. Let's handle it like I did in Somalia. Leave it.

 

I will not call now. There is a meeting coming up, but I will not call until these guys go home. Get out and all the foreign troops, get out.

 

Q: So you see that they will postpone the meeting again, or will they have a meeting without you?

 

They met without me all the time, but it failed. We are Hawiya. We have to be there. And not the ones they choose, it's the ones we choose. Our party represents Somalis across the whole country. But we will not meet outside the country. They can do whatever they want. But it's going to fail.

 

There is no meeting until the Ethiopians leave and the foreign troops leave the country. Then we can talk about meeting. But the meeting will be held inside the country. When they leave. It won't be outside the country.

[Abwaan]

Iska hadloow inaga igarre. Muxuu ninku iska hadlay madaxweynaan ahay ku lehe, dadkaan baaba'ay miyuu rabaa inuu dushooda magac ka raadsado oo tolow hadduu karti leeyahay muu waxuu u qaban karo u qabto inta sheegashadan beenta ah iska daayo.

 

War kan yaa ka naxaya oo isbitaal geeya.