SomeAlien Posted April 14, 2004 princess, no use in putting yrself in a box. you know who and what you are, your good qualities and your shortcomings. he put 3 categories to simplify things, of course real people arent that "simple". my mom prayed and fasted and was a stearn believer since she was young bt only wore the hijab around 5 years ago. she teaches the quran to the other women of the community, she works for an anti-fgm organization and takes care of us and never misses a prayer. she is full of iiman and has always been, but only recently wore the proper hijab. there are many ways of showing/havingg iiman. the hijab, for some people, is the first learning tool towards islam and others its their last/final one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senora Posted April 14, 2004 the hijab, for some people is the first learning tool towards islam and others its their last/final one." I agree Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lol Posted April 14, 2004 Nur: How would you classify me? Since u r an expert in that field, coz I don't belong to any of the three categories ..... so here is a briefing of me.. I sometimes wear Dirac, Jeans, Hijab with cibaya/shuko etc. I don't how ever, expose too much flesh.. I like to keep folks guessing if u know what I mean... Marka aboowihiis.. Classify me plzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Qac Qaac Posted April 15, 2004 try me, maxaa adi wali xamar life aad ku nooshahay. ani 0.5 aan ku siin lahaa laakiin su'aasha nuur aad waydiisay loooool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nur Posted April 16, 2004 Rahima sis I also wrote: " But in their actions, or the lack of, one can tell if they are forward biased toward Islam, conducting both ways, or outright resisting the guidance of siraatul Mustaqeem. " I meant that muslim men are not as apparent as Muslim sisters due to the dress code regulations, muslim men usually dress does not diffre much from non Mulsims, the same can not be said about the muslima and the no Muslima. Hope that covered your question, thank you for catching errors, may Allah bless you my dear sis. Prinsess Sexy ( For Husband to be Only) Like I said, iimaan levels varies a lot, and for every level of iimaa, there is a corresponding level of action, the better the actions, the higher the iimaan, I agree with you that these three levels are only descriptive, but yes, there are many shades in between. Baashi Bro. May Allah bless you, your expalnation was a bulls eye analogy. Raula Sis You write " Whether one is a resistor, Transistor, or Sister; the difference only is gapped when one has strong IMAN and Camalun-hasanati(good deeds). Answer: As we shall visit, srong iimaan is manifested by good deeds, the higher the iimaan, the better the deeds, I hope that is simple to understand. You write: " Moreover, the Quran/Hadith points out that one should not commit to an organization or DIIN/Faction if they have no idea of what the principles of that organization is all about." Answer: Rauala, Allah says in Quraan " Wa laa taqfu maa leisa laka bihi cilm" meaning Do not give opinion of an issue that you have no knowledge of, your reference of not committing to an organozation, is uncalled for, I have never invited anyone to do so, except for joining the Ahluil Sunnah wal Jamaaca, the faithful who follow the teachings of our prophet SAWS. You ask: "So, you are saying that HIJAB-wearing sisters know the DIIN better than others" ? Answer: My topic was not relating Hijab wearing to Knowledge, it was realting Hijab wearing with iimaan. Your argument has many contradictions: You say, : " no one knows what lies beneath those believers souls, except Allah (S.W.)-indeed, inallahi caliimun bidaatil suudur(Only Allah knows what is in their hearts). " You also say : " So let the judgement to ALLAH and worry about your DEEDS-Because Allah (S.W.) know's best." " So brother Nur and others as well, there are many HIJAB wearing sisters that have no clue of what their religion's principles is all about except that it has been passed down unto them through family inheritance and generational-link or customary traditions." Sister, can you catch the contradictions? you have judged, then wittfully said that only Allah should judge, besides, the issue is not about knowledge and iimaan, it is about iimaan and deeds. Sophist Bro. iimaan is not digital, it is not only a two state flipflop, but a contiuum of states the lowest of which borders kufr, and the highest borders prophets level. The third State could be explained according to the verse in Quraan: " Waa aakharuuna khalatuu camalan saalixan waa aakhara sayi an" Those who mixed good deeds while doing also some good, they are known in aakhira as Acraaf people, ( Transistors) who are stuck in the middle and their case is up for Allahs mercy. Some Alien Ignorance is an exception, but when we knowingly ignore Allahs commandments we fall in one of three categories: 1. We do not believe that Allah will punish us if we violate His commands. 2. We do not believe Allah at all 3. We are not sure of the whole thing, so we take chances. Try Me sis Abbayadiis, where in the blue planet have you been? You write: " I sometimes wear Dirac, Jeans, Hijab with cibaya/shuko etc. I don't how ever, expose too much flesh.. I like to keep folks guessing if u know what I mean... Marka aboowihiis.. Classify me plzz" Answer: Dirac is great, in the comfort of your home, your future husband will love it. Jeans, under the hijaab and the abbaya is awsome, it protects your valuables in windy days. Hijab leaves a lot to the imaginations, so you are right to keep'm gussing the lady in black. I classify you as AWSOME. Finally A Nurtel Fiction Story that explains the connection between iimaan and action. Dedicated to my Dadayangu RAULA A Kenyan tour guide standing next to a LION is explaining to a Western tourist in Kenya's animal reserves " THIS LION is HARMLESS, HE DOES NOT ATTACK, DO YOU UNDERSTAND?" STOP HERE FOR A MOMENT: The tour guide has just given to the tourist: 1. Information that is expected to be BELIEVED 2. The action of the tourist will verify this BELIEF. The Tour guide released the lion and the lion walks toward the tourist to be petted ( In sanka laga taabto). The tourist panics, and runs away The tour guide asks the tourist " Did I not tell you that "this LION is harmless", it will not attack? The toursit responds, "yes , but did you tell the LION not to attack?" The above joke and the tourist's action shows that the toutsit FAILED to believe the Tour guide, and therefore his action ( running away) showed that the information given to him did not settele in his head, in order for him to act on it. So, in that Example , (iimaan) is two fold 1. Information to be believed 2. Actions that verify that the infromation was believed. Whenever those two aspects of iimaaan are met, we say that is the proper iimaan which is required for a MUSLIM to have to eneter Paradise. Kwaherini, jamaawangu, inshaAllah tuta onana in Jannah. Nur e-Nuri Path Finders Guiding Lost Nomads, in Troubled Times Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nur Posted April 16, 2004 Somealien, Alhamdulillah I am happy it is clear. Camel Girls, and Camel Boys. This issue is closely relates iimaan and actions, let us learn the connection before it is too late. Below is more explanation of that connection between iimaan and actions, it is one of my oldest classical answers to a sister who asked me if she is a Munaafiq, here was my answer for all concerned sisters. A sister I lost contact with once wrote to me : Brother Nur, Am I a Munaafiq? Answer: I will try to simplify a rather difficult question, please read very carefully: 1. No Soul will go to Jannah who is not Muslim 2. No one can be Muslim without Shahaada 3. Shahaada is information, you are required to believe it 4. The test to see if you indeed believe in Shahaada are your deeds: So our faith is composed of a A. set of information we are required to believe, B. Set of orders we are ordered to obey The extent of your belief in the information that our Prophet SAWS delivered is measured by the extent of orders that you obey. In other words, your obedience to the orders of Allah, is a reflection of your belief in the information delivered to you. So , Islam is a set of information, like Allah, Jannah, angels, etc. and a set of orders such as Salat, Fasting, Justice, etc. The orders are subdivided in to two categories: 1.Orders to do something 2.Orders to stay away from something If Allah orders you to do something, and you fail to don so, the reason could be: a. You do not believe in the information b. You believe it but you are arrogant c. You are MENTALLY CHALLENGED If (a) that is clear kufr If (b) That is also kufr, the type of Sheitan If © You may be the same case like a crazy person, Mentally Challenged, no responsibility. If you are ordered to stay away from something, and you do not, we have the following scenario: a. You do not believe in the information b. You are arrogant c. You can not resist temptation d. You are MENTALLY CHALLENGED All but case © are covered. If case © That is called disobedience (macsiya) a sin and it is what Adam and Hawaa aleyhimaa assalaam have commited. It does not make you a kaafir To generalize the above. If a person does something he is ordered not to do, the driver is more likely weakness against temptation, and that person is not a kaafir, this is the case of Adam and Eve, Aleyhimaa assalaam. If a person refuses to do something he is ordered to do, the driver of his action is more likely arrogance, like the case of Sheitan. Now we visit a new territory; There is a principle for detecting iman levels developed by Sheikh Ibn Taymiyah. Called ( Talaazumul Dhaahir wal Baatin)( Synregy of the Apparent actions with Hidden Motives) I will simplify it for you again. The inside and the outside of a person are always working in harmony. Except when an outside disturbance influences that person. When as a result, the outside of that person projects and does contrary of what is supposed to be inside. Meaning. In Systems Science, when we input a signal into a system, we observe an output that reflects the shape of the original signal + the function of the system that operated on the signal. In the absence of outside disturbance, we can always predict the output. But when an outside element disturbs the system, the output will not be predictable. A person who is a kaafir therefore will normally act as a kaafir. Sabeelul kaafireen And a person who is a muslim will always act like a Muslim. Sabeelul Mumineen In general, if you leave anyone alone, what he/she does is reflecting what they believe. But the minute that person feels that he/she is being observed, that feeling will somewhat effect the action of that person. An example is when you catch a child making funny faces on a mirror the child will immediately alter his behaviour to an acceptable manner. This is called conforming. So, when a Kaafir lives with Muslims, he may act like Muslim, to avoid problems. He is called a Munafiq. And a Muslim who lives with Kufaar may at times act like kuffar, to avoid problems. He is called Mukrah. Now, a Somali person who lives in Somalia, US or Europe, is free to practice his faith, so if that person does not practice, his actions are an indicator of what is missing in his heart. In this case the actions or their absence are an indictor of the iimaan inside that person. However a Muslim who lives in tyranny, his actions may not be indicator of his belief. Because, if this person practices his faith, he is afraid for his life. As a result this person conceals his faith portraying himself as non Muslim, when in effect he fully believes his faith and is willing tp practise it to the fullest if he was not afraid. His fear, though could be justifiable or may be unjustifiable, in which case he is in grave error. Allah says : Are they same he who spends all his nights praying and prostrating, alert for aakhirah, and the one who is in darkness..............................." Nasalu Allaha al caafiyah. Aamin Nur 2000 e-Nuri Communications Old Edition Paradise is Possible Summer Campaign Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baashi Posted April 16, 2004 Our friend Sophist wrote Originally posted by Sophist: Baasi About the footbal attire; the Cawra of the man is much contentious judicial matter. The famous Imamu Ahlu-Hadith Abu Abdullah Muhammad ibn Ismail ibn Ibrahim Ibn Muqira ibn Bardisba Al Ju’fi Al Bukhari argued that Cawrarada ninku inaaney ka bilaaban jilibka ee laakiin xitaa bowdada (cajirka) ninku aanu cawro aheyn. Hadalkiisan wuxuu asal uga dhigayaa, xadiithka Mutafiqa ah (waan umaleyn inuu mutafiq yahay); Nabiga SCW oo kugurigiisa fadhiya ayaa oo bawdadiisu (cajirkiisu) uu sn udaboolneyn ayaa waxaa usoo galaya abu Bakar, ma uu daboolanayo, kadibna, Cumar, ma uu daboolanayo, Kadib ayaa waxaa soo galaya Cuthmaan; markaas ayuu daboolan bawdadiisa isagoo leh, “miyaanan kaxishooneynin (ixtiraameynin) nin malaa’igtuba kaxishooto” Awkamaa qaala Nabiyu Salahu Calayhi Wasalamm. Nur and Sophist, I have to admit my "cilmi dhegood" fail me this time around as I have never heard this "naked cajar" thing as mubaax before. I have always thought the short pants (above the knee) were not permitted. Could you plz enlighten me about this. Many thanks in advance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nur Posted April 16, 2004 Walaal Baashi The Hadeeth is said to be authentic, the story is famous, and by itself we can not deduce that it is not a cawra. In Fiqh, for any judgemnet, we look for a matrix of two elements. Thubuut: meaning that the Statement (nass) is proven to have been authentic. Dalaalah: meaning that it has a contexual interpretation. Qadci: meaning statement is a firm assertion Dhanni: meaning the interpretaion is ambiguous. Now, we have four possibilities: This hadeeth is definetly QADCI if terms of THUBUUT, but it is DHANNI in terms of DALAALAH. Why because, thereis another Hadeeth that is : QADCI in THUBUUT QADCI in DALAALAH That hadeeth is the one that the prophet SWAS mentioned that a mans awra is from knee to knavel. In Conclusion: When we have two Hadeeths, If they are equal in authenticity we look at several factors: 1. Order of narration, the latter Hadeeth has more weight for legislature purposes. 2. The Hadeeth which is QADCI in terms of THUBUUT and DALAALAH has more weight. In our case, the latter Hadeeth has more weight in terms of being QADCI, however, what remains to be verified is the order of the hadeeths, which hadeeth came later. Wallahu Aclam Nur Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raula Posted April 16, 2004 Salaamz' Brother Nur, horta Iam sorry if I said that u were asking anyone to commit to an organization..but I was giving meaning that without knowledge/cilmi(being aware what constitutes an organization-in this case religion-is essential to building IMAN (commitment) to a particular group, than being a blind-follower). My intention was that some muslims or somalis need to know what their religion consitutes for(for instance, the history of the Anbiyas, the quranic revelations and the meaning of Dacwa)not just blindly following and mixing culture with religion principles,just because their forefathers used to be 'muslims'(Allah knows)(there are many stories in the Hadiths and Quran, however one that I remember vividly is the story of the Prophets uncle (S.A.W)-(Abu talib)-because he was so committed to the religion of his forefathers, he lacked IMAN to commit to the relgion of his nephew. But alwayz he protected his nephew and the followers of ISLAM from invasions.)(dont get me wrong, Iam not saying that being born a muslim refutes one the chances to learn about their religion-but honestly there are some people who say they are muslims but do not act like one, however ready to pin-point non-muslims and their acts). Nur says "Sister, can you catch the contradictions? you have judged, then wittfully said that only Allah should judge, besides, the issue is not about knowledge and iimaan, it is about iimaan and deeds." If I said that some people; religion has been passed to them thru' generational ties, is that judging??? Nonetheless, if I say that leave the judging to Allah (S.W) is that judging???(Amazing) conclusion:-without knowledge, IMAN and deeds are hard to grasp. My point is that, these principles are inter-twined. Caution: Knowledge in my terms means that one is aware, understands, learned about their religion prospects and principles. I dont mean the 'western term of knowledge as being formal eduacation'-No. Ma'salaama. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cawralo Posted April 18, 2004 Nice post, hope to be a 'sister' one day. But your post has one huge flaw. Dont judge a book by it's cover brotha man, you dont have to see into a persons qalb. Just a thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Legend of Zu Posted April 18, 2004 My question in this Issue is not about the connection of Iman and Good Deeds..but rather Judging someone's Iman based on their Dress. We all know that Hijab is farad ( a Must) in Islam. But sayin that someone who is wearin a hijab has strong Iman than non hijab wearin, is totally wrong... becus if u just read the quran how many acts were attributed to Ahlul Iman..many..isn't it? so can we say if you fail to do one (The appearance) you have a lesser Iman than someone who has the Appearance but prolly lack other attributes?.... I dont get it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nur Posted April 18, 2004 RAULA sis Confusion reigns when a topic is not carefully read and responded to, I feel that we are both on the same side sis, all I was saying was that being judgemental; of people is no good, which we bot agree, however, you should stop there and not categorize any Hijabis or non Hijabis. Anyway, forgive me if I offended you , it is not personal, just a discussion, please take it that way cuz I have a lot of respect for you. Cawrala sis A book should not judged by its cover, but a book without a cover keeps me guessing of what is inside, if I have to take a chance, I need to a title read, and the Hijaab is a loud title, but any rule has an exception, I agree with you that there are great non Hijaabi sisters out there, and some terrible Hijabis, but these are exceptions not the rule, let us follow the rule. Legend of Zhu Brother iimaan is related to deeds according to the following Hadeeth: " iimaan is something that resides in the heart, MANIFESTED BY DEEDS" So, if you have iimaan, and do not authenticate with actions, how is that different than Pharaohs iimaan when he siad " aamantu billadii aamant bihi banuu Israel" I believe the ( God) Childeren of Isreal have beoieved" ? Nur Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Legend of Zu Posted April 18, 2004 Akhil Karim Nur. My point was That How can we judge someone's Iman with oly one Deed (in this case appearance)? what about a muhajabah but Aaqul waalidayn ? I do know that Iman is manifested by someone's deeds but not one deed. The Key word is Deeds (not deed) Do you see where i am comin from? NOTE: My point is not sayin dont wear hijab but do other deeds and you will be fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sophist Posted April 20, 2004 Bro Baashi Ibnu Taymiyah was asked about two catagories of Ulamaa, those who when asked questions give straight answer (if the issue is Fiqh; there are bound to be many varied valid opinions) or those who recall all the opinions involved and then give their understanding of the issue; Sheikh Ibn Taymiyah (My HERO) said he prefered the latter because they will give show the light and then guide them to the truth. After reading that in years ago, I have indeed adopted this methodology and that is why I am great admirer of Imam ibn Taymiyah and also great fan for Sahibul Muqni (Sheikh Ibnu Qudaamah, great book on Fiqh; about 16 volumes got them all). Although, I agree with the assertion that the Cawra of the men begins from the knee I acknoledge this to be not forgone situations. I believe that Nur would politely disagree with Imam Bukhari on this may be perhaps he is with the Jamhuur on this;;; sometimes some Dulaabul Cilmi are lured by the majority: THIS IS NOT A CRITICISM; just an observation. I however, disagree with him because of Cilmul Usuul enables me to distinguish Ahadith of the actions of the prophet and those who spoke it. The latter comes first if the two are in complete disgareement. This princinple is called : Al Qawlu Muqadamun Canil Ficli= the word (speech) comes first than the action; meaning it is more favourable. This can be found in any major Cilmul Usuul books from Al-Risaala Imaam Shaafici to Irshaadul Fuxuul by Imaam Shawkaani. I hope this clears it a bit. Nur, I am perfectly in the clear that Imaan Yaziid wa Yanqus (we had learnt that in Caqiidatul Waasidiyah by Ibnu Taymiyah): Yaziidu bidaa-atilaah wa yanqusu Bimacsiya; but I spoke about the dressing caragories which you have devised. Anyhow, it is fine. Sophist Nabad PS: Excuse any incomprehensible sentences there, it is nearly five Oclock in the morning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites