The President who does not...!

[NGONGE]

This thread calls for a history lesson. It's late at night right now and I'm feeling sleepy. Watch this space.

[Legend of Zu]

Originally posted by Haddad:

quote:Originally posted by Legend of Zu:

We shouldn't be in the Arab league in the first place!!!

So, your idea is to deny Somalia the benefits of being a member of the Arab League? It's not like Somalia benefits the Arab League; Somalia isn't rich or militarily superior. Throughout the history of its membership, Somalia has recieved billions of dollars in various aid formats. Somalia didn't return any favor; the least it could have done was adopt Arabic for its alphabet; instead it refused and adopted a foreign alphabet.

Funny sxb..coz that is flawed..simply u sayin becoz of they have given us AID therefore....

if that so what about the americans and western countries who had given us AID...so should we join EU as well?

 

So in ur logic we are currently in the League not becos of we share culture, language and Identity but it benefits us in terms of the dollars and assistance we receive... if that is the case then any somali president does not need to speak Arabic Language, now does he??

 

Somalia is not an arab country the late Siyad barre (Allaha u naxariisto eh) did join the arab league due to political and economic benefits...which even led him to impose the infamous " afka carabiga wax ka baro"..which was sometime in the 80's compulsory...

 

Sayin that I'm not here denying the significance that we share religion, neighborhood and historical relations with the Arab countries...but that is all to it

 

Cheers

[Haddad]

Originally posted by Legend of Zu:

if that so what about the americans and western countries who had given us AID...so should we join EU as well?

It's not "so should we join EU as well"; we can't, it's not possible. We can't neither join NAFTA; it's not possible. Turkey which is partly located on the European continent, is having a tough time joining the EU, despite being ultra secular and their people looking like Europeans.

 

The other thing, the aid given to Somalia by "the americans and western countries" is different than the Arab's. With the first, nothing comes free, there's always a price to pay or gains/benefits to be made. With the later, it's free as free.

[wind.talker]

Throughout the history of its membership, Somalia has recieved billions of dollars in various aid formats. Somalia didn't return any favor; the least it could have done was adopt Arabic for its alphabet; instead it refused and adopted a foreign alphabet. [/QB]

So, that's the source of your anger? You're so angry that Somalia, an Arab country, didn't adopt Arabic as their written form of language.

 

Somalia isn't an Arab country nor will it ever be. And the very Arabs you so vividly speak of are the same ones getting AID from the FOREIGN countries you're referring to, namely the West. Or are we to believe that Arab countries are self-sufficient nation-states who only HAND OUT money to poor, starving Somalis? Give us a break with the "Somalia is an Arab country" garbage. Your opinion is yours but I'm glad I'ma Somali - and not an Arab.

 

P.S. I might give respect to Arabs when they stop bending over for Bush Jr.'s diplomatic doggystyle.

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by Amethyst:

^ I know smart aleck!

 

Still, English is

the international language. And Somalis dont speak arabic but Somali.

When the Arab league was established, it was set up for the main reason, which is to represent, defend and further the goals of Arabic speaking countries. Somalia and Djibouti both joined because they probably claimed to be Arabs and have the Arabic language as the second official language (ahead of English and Italian or French).

 

English might be the international language in the halls of the UN, Europe or in individual dealings. However, when the Arab league meets it would be absurd that they discuss their issues in English when they’re all supposed to be Arabs, wouldn’t you say?

 

This is not about the tired old argument of whether Somalis are Arabs or not. This is simply about the way that organisation functions.

 

 

Somebody above mentioned that Mauritania and Comoros are not Arab countries when both of these countries confess to having Arabic as their main official language (they’re not making short cuts like Somalia and Djibouti). As for the case of Eritrea, even that was not as simple as it sounds. Back in the early 90s when Eritrea was begging to join the Arab league (after it turned it’s back on the Arabs who helped her gain her independence from Ethiopia), many Arab states rejected and were opposed to her entry. The simple reason? Eritrea was NOT an Arab country. I know it’s strange, but Arab countries regard both Somalia and Djibouti as being Arab (this might have something to do with our governments being true to their fraudulent past and selling the Arabs a few white lies). Be that as it may, Somalia is part of the Arab league and it’s extremely embarrassing that the president of a full member of the Arab league can’t speak the official tongue of that organisation. At least the previous president spoke passable Arabic and justified the inclusion of his country in that league.

 

The Arab league has refused requests from Iran, Turkey and a few Asian countries that wanted to join the league in the past. The objection has always been that these countries were not Arabs and that should they join, the name of the organisation should change to something other than The Arab League.

 

This was a short explanation to tackle some of the absurd arguments presented on this thread.

 

 

History did not begin after 1990; If people wish, I could go all the way back to the Arab revolt against the Ottoman Empire, the Pan-Arab movement of Jamal Abdul Naser and the Arab support of Somalia in its war against Ethiopia! (The Pan-Arab movement I’m told was enthusiastically supported in and around Somalia back then – Jamal Abdul Naser was a popular name for Somali babies back then).

[wind.talker]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

the Arab support of Somalia in its war against Ethiopia!

What Arab support? Are you referring to the Yemeni troops who fought alongside Ethiopian soldiers during the Ethio-Somali War of 1977-78? Providing arms and logistics is minor support compared to Yemen's provision of both manpower and material to Imperial Ethiopian forces in their war to crush the liberation of Western Somalia. Nonetheless, a nice attempt to sugarcoat the true face of Somali-Arab historical relations.

[Baashi]

Wind,

Iraq and Saudi Arabia provided us free oil and without their support, Somalia couldn’t sustain the fight against Ethios and their resourceful allies Cuba and USSR (think about the soviet-made, fuel-consuming soviet tanks and other mechanized gadgets!). Egypt had given us bullets for AK-47 and other soviet made spare parts after Soviets relations soured. Military rations (dates) and other necessities had been supplied by Iraq. Arab league have always looked after Somalis in both international and regional forum.

[wind.talker]

^^

 

That's all good to hear sxb but Yemen provided man and material to support Ethiopia in its war against Somalia. Compare the two: military hardware and logistical support from Arab states vs. Yemeni military MANPOWER and material to Ethiopia. At the end of the day, the Arabs made very clear where their support lies.

[NGONGE]

^^^^Now whose sugarcoating things, wind? Can you please read your last post again?

 

As Baashi told you, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Egypt did help Somalia in its war with Ethiopia. Syria also played a big part in that war (albeit covert one). The amazing thing is that both Iraq and Syria were Soviet clients at the time. The Soviet Union as you already know, dropped Somalia from its client list and supported Ethiopia in that war. These Arab countries in effect, were fighting against their own boss!

 

Saaxib, I’m not here to argue for Somalia being an Arab nation. Nor am I here to banish your unreasonable hatred of anything Arab. I was only pointing out what took place in history, not opinion but indisputable facts. I do hope that you would accept them as such and not revert, like others did, to questioning the most obvious of things.

[bilan]

Originally posted by wind.talker:

^^

 

That's all good to hear sxb but Yemen provided man and material to support Ethiopia in its war against Somalia. Compare the two: military hardware and logistical support from Arab states vs. Yemeni military MANPOWER and material to Ethiopia. At the end of the day, the Arabs made very clear where their support lies.

wind i will recommend you to talk someone who was present during the ethio-somali war in somalia, because clearly you are misinformed. if yemen supported ethiopia, then saudi arabia,egypt iraq supported somalia or yemen represents entire arab countries,also iran did support somalia as well.also egypt helped somalia early 1950s when somalia was struggling to gain its freedom. that does not mean somalia is an arab country.

[wind.talker]

^^

 

Adi waxaad ka hadleysid garanmaayo. You need to be more clear.

 

Originally posted by NGONGE:

Nor am I here to banish your unreasonable hatred of anything Arab.

Glad to hear it. You'll only tire yourself

 

Originally posted by NGONGE:

I was only pointing out what took place in history, not opinion but indisputable facts.

Okay, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc. helped Somalia during the war. Have I disputed this fact? No. I want you to admit that Yemen provided MAN and MATERIAL to Ethiopia during the 1977-78 war or does your love for anything Arab blind you from this very important and indisputable fact?

 

FOR CONTEXT:

 

After watching Ethiopian events in 1975-76, the Soviet Union concluded that the revolution would lead to the establishment of an authentic Marxist-Leninist state and that, for geopolitical purposes, it was wise to transfer Soviet interests to Ethiopia. To this end, Moscow secretly promised the Derg military aid on condition that it renounce the alliance with the United States. Mengistu, believing that the Soviet Union's revolutionary history of national reconstruction was in keeping with Ethiopia's political goals, closed down the U.S. military mission and the communications centre in April 1977. In September, Moscow suspended all military aid to the aggressor, began openly to deliver weapons to Addis Ababa, and reassigned military advisers from Somalia to Ethiopia. This Soviet volte-face also gained Ethiopia important support from North Korea, which trained a People's Militia, and from Cuba and the People's Democratic Republic of Yemen, which provided infantry, pilots, and armoured units. By March 1978, Ethiopia and its allies regained control over the ******.

[Gabbal]

WIND-

 

No one is disputing with you that Communist Yemen, better known as "South Yemen" provided crucial help on the part of the Ethiopians, but I fail to understand how one puny cornered sub-nation speaks for Yemen as a whole, let alone the wide and large Arab nation!

 

To understand their act, which I believe was not done by their love for Ethiopians as opposed to Somalis, you have to comprehend what drove them to support the Amharas. Yemen of today was back then divided into N. Yemen and S. Yemen. N. Yemen had a political ideology similar to that of the rest of the Arabs, but S. Yemen was by and large communist! After labeling the N. Yemenis as "reactionaries" they successfully sought the incursion of the Soviets into the lower Hadramout regions. S. Yemenis were cornered by the "reactionary Arabs and Somalis" so well that they were literally at the behest of the Soviets! When the late Siyad Barre (ilaahay ha u naxariisto) increased tensions with the Ethiopians, the S. Yemenis did everything in their power to reconcile the two Horn-of-Africa nations so as to not lose favor with the Soviets or go against their long ties with the Somalis. However, Siyad Barre at a conference held in S. Yemen that was initiated by Fidel Castro, rebuffed the whole idea of Socialism and said it would always take second place to Somali ireddentism! The dice was rolled, the war started, the Soviets chose their side, and the S. Yemenis had to look out for their own personal safety and interest. It was the case of "no hard feelings, but this is what I have to do".

 

However, we would never have survived during and after the war had it not been for the tremendous support coming for Anwar Sadat of Egypt and Hafiz al-Asad of Syria. Those two, particularly Syria which was at that time under Soviet patronage, truly did magnificent in supporting us. When the Somali army was forced to retreat by the combined prowess of the Soviets, Cubans, Angolans, Yemenis, and Ethiopians, Egypt even proclaimed Ethiopia risked invasion by Egypt if they crossed into the boundaries of the Republic of Somalia. The United States, who was really concerned about expanision of communism into the whole Horn, even lent Egypt large numbers of military aircrafts and merceneries were Ethiopia to cross into the territory of the "Somali Republic".

 

 

So, Wind_Talker, whether we like or dislike people we should always be grateful for their help. Let Arabs be what they are, but they have done us more favors then we could have ever given them. What have we ever done for them anyways, to weigh the support and help they have given us?

[rudy-Diiriye]

i gotta a message for c/y from ET! if u see c/y, tell him that ET said, "plz go home!".

 

i dont know c/y was a space cadet too! :confused:

[Sky]

^^^^

 

that was a weird thing. what the hell does ET gotta do with somali politics?

[rudy-Diiriye]

exactly Sky, there is no politics in nomad culture only tribalism! dont forget that!!

 

Make sure you be go to me! i am your qaraabo!! okey!!

 

all these ppl u see huffing n buffing in the Phally forms, they all pushing their keen!!

 

ITS THE AFRICAN WAY!!