Samatar, Monster Next Door

[Castro]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

Yes, I expect he will. But with less conviction this time. Anyway, I am only softening them up until the guru arrives.

Nothing like your guru to muddy the waters. Please, tell him to stay away. I'd hate to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[NGONGE]

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tusbax:

quote:Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

NGONGE,

waa markii ugu horreysay aan ku arko adoo caadhifadi ku hayso

Ngonge is my friend. Laakin waa born-again SL waagaan ku idhi ma dhaweyne ma wax baad iga qori. I think it is not the first time Ngonge oo caadiifad wado aynu argano. That he does it in a gentle and subtle way doesn't mean, he hasn't shown it before!

Without a doubt NGONGE is the sharpest knife in the secessionist drawer. But in this thread he is being shallow in his analysis.

[Castro]

^^^^ I would love to read your deep analysis of this matter. And I'm not being facetious.

[NGONGE]

^^ He has none. Xabaad gabay oo caato iyo kugo tufaya markaaso kuu yara aamusaya. Markaad so'aasha kuso cilisid iyo odhan "O miyanad fahmin? Adeer nakla kaxee, xigmada kugo yar".

 

Xiin, filinka 'shallow' iyo 'deep' analysis bari horaan dhaawaday, saaxib. Wax 2010 ma ino haysa?

[xiinfaniin]

Castro, we are on the 9th page welina meeshii aan ka bilownay baan maraynaa, why do you think that is awoowe?

 

NGONGE, waxaan macno badan lahayn baad ku nuux-nuuxsanaysaa maantoo dhan that is what i meant shallow

[Thankful]

Ngonge,

 

I can honestly say I had no clue you came from NW Somalia. For some reason I thought you came from another area, I’m not sure what it was, but once I read the anger you wrote with and the name calling. I came to the realization that you must be. Maybe it's the failure of your secessionist’s dreams that make you so hostile or the fact that you can't admit when you are wrong. But If I knew you were a right-winger from NW Somalia, I would have approached this differently; you seem stuck in your ways!

 

This argument since the beginning has to with the Hypocrisy, specifically what got my attention was the people that posted the Articles: "JB - Monster living next door" and "Qudhac - Gulwadayaal claim samtar is now a victim."

 

The two people who made that thread is what originally got me annoyed and interested, because these guys can comment only on Samatar and talk about his history but not their leaders. Later what really got me annoyed was witnesses in the law suit. Because they and the SOLers will never say a word about Riyaale who comes from their enclave! That's what the arguments was and always been about, now I still believe that the lawsuit is coming from ONE source and I am saying that this source, (whether it be the witnesses or the right wing faction on SOL are biased.)

 

Thankful, you are being obtuse again, saaxib. The link I gave does mention their clan but it also mentions they are two individuals, you stubborn pirate. The SL community in that city did not get together and file a case against the man there; TWO people did. The mention of their clan is important because it sheds some light into the background of the case but this is not a portrayal of the clan as a whole. Not every person from SL is after blood. Some have moved on and some, due to very personal experiences and the opportunity to address these experiences, have not. This is straight and simple but you are being thick on purpose here.

The article said they are suing on behalf of 2 members of the (I-clan), they alleged victims are concealing their names. The case is Doe v. Ali. The reason they need to immediately mention their tribe is because it plays big role in their suit. The reason why it says that the Siad government "I-clan was a special target of the military government." Is to make it clear in their eyes that their whole "group" was being targeted not just themselves. The lawsuit then mentions their tribe; read the background info on the article you sent me, before the victims are mentioned, the lawyers identified the individuals by their tribe and in the background summary they give a brief history of what theri tribe was facing, before then talk about the victims. So even though you tried to say in American tribe means nothing, their lawyers know that mentioning the Siad government directly focused on them as a group helps their case. The lawsuit specifically makes it known that their tribe was a special target of the Siad’s military government and not just these private individuals.

 

 

You (and others) cry Riyaale went to America and nobody prosecuted him. That too is nonsense. Because, and now I'll have to hold your dirty pirate hand here and walk you back to the start of this post;

the case was brought by private individuals and these individuals have a direct problem

The worse thing in all of this is not really the trial, Samatar or the perceptions you have. What is really appalling here is the idea that just because Somalia had many criminals no victims should have the gal to go after those they believe have wronged them, for the simple reason that others did not! But that is not the way the world works.

That is not even the way Somalis work; when someone is killed, some ask for the perpetrator to be killed too whilst others are happy with the blood money. Some believe revenge serves no purpose whilst others demand retribution. It is a very personal and individual thing and not a clan objective.

At any rate, SL (as a collective) has already chosen its method of revenge, it decided to secede and never expose itself to the possibility of a return to such times or heartache. Lakin ma cid ba fahmaysa?

 

 

But you are wrong when you say that these individuals have a direct problem with those men. They are saying that the men under their command subjected them to torture. They are not saying Samatar actually did it! But that military and NSS did. Which is why I say, if anything....the possibility of Riyaale being more directly responsible for their abuse is high? But just like SOL and these witnesses they remain silent. I question their sense of justice and why they aren’t blind when it comes to searching for it. It is one dominant group in NW Somalia’s government that is blaming all other Somalis. The whole reason NW Somalia wants to break up is the claim they make about the abuse they suffered, the reason the witnesses in the case want money is also the abuse they suffered. Yet they never say a word about the NSS station chief!

 

The reason I mentioned Nuremberg Trials is important because it made it clear that you can't use the excuse you were just following orders (like some did for Riyaale), I included Iraq because there new government refused to allow ALL ex-baathists in. Which is the right way to do it, but in NW Somalia an NSS agent was made president!

 

So you are right the lawsuit is from private individuals and just like the posters of this thread it is all coming from "one" side. So my only issue I can prove is towards those two hypocrites’. Especially the witnesses who claim NSS agents came to his house and tortured him. And when an NSS station chief from NW Somalia visits Virginia, they all remain silent.

 

The issue has always been about JB, Qudhuc and now the witnesses in the case. They can talk about war crimes attributed to ex-Siad guys who don't hold heavy weight in their NW Somalia Gov't, but won't say a word about the ex-Siad guys that lead their country and who were once a part of a brutal security apparatus that abused them.

[NGONGE]

Wakaa! Haye Castro, maxan ku idhi?

We are on the ninth page and all you did in your various replies (in two threads) is talk about selective prosecution. I already dealt with that. Wax sheeg, adeer, wax sheeg.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Look the man above you, NGONGE. He has more passion than I do for this issue.

 

Remember per your motto, Qabiil is everything

[NGONGE]

I will only deal with the part I quote you on. The rest of what you wrote (though you're wriggling) is a concession of sorts. So I'll let all that go.

 

So you are right the lawsuit is from private individuals and just like the posters of this thread it is all coming from "one" side. So my only issue I can prove is towards those two hypocrites’. Especially the witnesses who claim NSS agents came to his house and tortured him. And when an NSS station chief from NW Somalia visits Virginia, they all remain silent.

 

The issue has always been about JB, Qudhuc and now the witnesses in the case. They can talk about war crimes attributed to ex-Siad guys who don't hold heavy weight in their NW Somalia Gov't, but won't say a word about the ex-Siad guys that lead their country and who were once a part of a brutal security apparatus that abused them.

If your argument is to have a tit-for-tat with Jb and Qudhac then be my guest, saaxib. I have no problem with that and they are big boys who can advance their own arguments. However, originally, your argument was about Samatar and the weakness of his clan (but we will let that one go). It was also about a whole clan going for Samatar (and we shall let that one go too). It was also about one man being picked on (and I'll also let that one go). So what are we left with now? Oh! The motives of those suing Samatar? You don't feel their motives are genuine? So what? I don't believe your motives are genuine but I spent the last couple of days trying to drive sense into your thick head. Motives (unless proven) do not matter.

 

This is simple stuff, adeer. Poeple want to prosecute a man because atrocities are said to have taken place on his watch. You are saying they should not? Actually, you said it was ok earlier. So what exactly are you saying? Ah! Riyaale! AGAIN? War ma waxba kuu dhiman?

 

See my previous post regarding Riyaale. There is nothing I feel should be added to adjusted there.

[Thankful]

It is still my feeling that Samatar's clan oppression plays a big role! That these people have appealed and taken it to the supreme court is still my feeling. They have absolutely no representation in any government from Hargeysa, Garowe or Mogadishu. I still believe that these people see him as an easy target, that if he had more supports he could rally them to his cause and talk about how the regime (in their eyes) actually help reverse their oppression. They protested Siad Barre being in Kenya and he had to go to Nigeria, Morgan(who you call the butcher of Hargeysa) is in Kenya all the time and there is no such protest or complaints to the Hague. Because IN MY OPINION, the NW Somali government doesn't want to open up an investigation. They know that Morgan has supporters that will throw lawsuits right back at them(in my opinion), Samatar does not!

 

All these accuser come from one enclave and they will only protest those that do NOT hold weight in their government. You mentioned Ali's case, there are two witnesses(who interestingly don't want their identites revealed) and the case has stalled since August 2005. With Samatar there are numerous witnesses who have forwardthat have appealed and now it's at the Supreme court. These witnesses in Virginia and are accusing him, but they don't accuse other people that could have been involved that visit their city. To me it is obvious why, they are important to their enclave.

 

My OPINION IS THAT Riyaale leads an enclave and has supporters that will protect him, just like Qeybdiid did when he was arrested, they ran and start defending him, Morgan, and the list goes on. Regardless of who the alledged Somali war criminal is he can rely on his base for support. Samatar has none of this.

 

I also still believe that MANY who are only coming from one enclave are going after him/them in different forms. Whether it is ALL the accusers in America or those on SOL, it is coming tactic from your enclave. I hope our war criminals are investigated. However some in your enclave want other Somalis to be investigate but not their own.

[NGONGE]

^^ It's my opinion that your opinion about the opinions of those of the opinion that you have no opinion is a load of opinionated stuff and nonsense. My job is done here. I advise you and Xiin to give it and month then come back and read some of the pearls of wisdom you shared on here.

[xiinfaniin]

^^you have been outran NGONGE, lagaa dheeree

 

What was your job ?

[NGONGE]

^^ It's not what you say, Xiin. It's what is written in these last nine pages that shows who was outdone here. Anyway, I'm done here. I have to go back to Maddaay and continue my misunderstanding with him.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Where is that happening? Your misunderstaning with Maadeey, that is. I wanna watch