Samatar, Monster Next Door

[Castro]

Originally posted by ThankfulSP:

They are going after this man because he is seen as someone that doesn't have organized supporters.

Actually, "they" are going after this guy because he was the minister of defense and the prime minister from 1980 to 1990, ostensibly a very brutal decade for Afweyne and his cronies such as Samatar.

 

And what the hell does "organized supporters" mean? You're not going to sing that lame tune of minority clans, are you?

[Thankful]

JB,

 

I'll forget trying to have a coherent convo with you.

[Jacaylbaro]

coherent ??? ,, what is coherent about your argument ??

[Thankful]

Castro,

Minority clan may not be insignificant to you, but it is a major factor in this case.

 

Because during Siad's brutal 80's there were many directly involved, like Riyaale that was head of buildings that saw torture and murder. Yet isn't it quite convenient no one else is being accused?

 

What about the NUMEROUS violent rebel groups that hid amoung civilians and used them as human shields? That's a war crime as well. Remember the UN has sited the regime and rebel groups as committing war crimes.

 

 

The 90's were arguably even more brutal for Somalia, did you see when Qeybdiid went to Sweden and was arrested? The supporters that turned up in protest and the parade he received when he returned.

 

Like I said, by all means lets investigate the man. But it can't only be him, because Siad Barre named him into a position.

 

This Samatar case has been going on for years? Why has no other new compliants been brought forward? Are you trying to say that he is the only person who is alleged to have committed crimes?

 

Irin

 

Here's something,

 

SOMALIA: Interview: Abdirahman Awale and Muhammad Hashi of the SNM

 

Q: Is there also reluctance over investigating these mass graves because there are some people Somaliland also responsible?

 

A: [Hashi] It could be said so, yes, because there are some elements of the Siyad Barre regime in the government who should not have been, really.

 

[Awale] ... That point is valid, but I don't think it is the reason. Some were either ministers or civil servants in Siyad Barre's government, but they were not effective. That is not the point as to why the [somaliland] government is slow to deal with these mass graves. The main reason is that Egal is concerned with not telling the international community the truth of what has happened here.

 

Q: How will you deal with Somalilanders who are known to be part of that former system, or responsible for mass killings?

 

A: [Awale] It's quite clear; just investigations, not revenge, should be followed up. They will be taken to court. Not necessarily Siyad Barre's colleagues only [but] anyone who has taken part. They will be taken to court, and there should be justice.

 

[Hashi] Whether he is a Somalilander himself or whether he is somebody else.

 

---

 

So, there is a Reason why Egal never wanted an investigation, there is a reason why Riyaale doesn't either. Gen. Samatar doesn't have the power that these men do/did have.

[Castro]

Originally posted by ThankfulSP:

Are you trying to say that he is the only person who is alleged to have committed crimes?

No, but he's the only one living in America and an American citizen has every right to bring a suit against him. That the Supreme Court of the United States decided to hear this case is a triumph in and of itself.

 

So dig up Egal from the grave and drag Riyaale from Hargeisa and bring them here. Until then, you're wasting your breath.

[NASSIR]

Men accused of human rights abuses from Somalia to Venezuela have laid their own claims to the American dream and now enjoy the same freedoms they’re accused of trying to take away from their own people.

I am very certain that Samatar, in his official capacity, had never permitted the use of torture against civilians nor the rebels that had invaded peaceful towns and held them as shields for their own narrow political agenda. Any human rights violations, which are indeed inevitable in the midst of conflict, are most likely committed by officers of lower ranks in search for information that would give them status and promotion.

 

 

But here get an insight of the latest report on the Department of Justice ...

 

-----

Justice Department Report Finds John Yoo and Jay Bybee Not Guilty of Misconduct

 

By ERIC LICHTBLAU and SCOTT SHANEPublished: February 20, 2010

The New York Times

 

"The ethics lawyers, in the Office of Professional Responsibility, concluded that two department lawyers involved in analyzing and justifying waterboarding and other interrogation tactics - Jay S. Bybee, now a federal judge, and John C. Yoo, now a professor at the University of California, Berkeley - had demonstrated "professional misconduct." It said the lawyers had ignored legal precedents and provided slipshod legal advice to the White House in possible violation of international and federal laws on torture.......

 

 

"The report quotes Patrick Philbin, a senior Justice Department lawyer involved in the review, as saying that because of the urgency of the situation, he had advised Mr. Bybee to sign the memorandum, despite what he saw as Mr. Yoo's aggressive and problematic interpretation of the president's broad commander-in-chief powers in trumping international and domestic law......

 

 

The Office of Professional Responsibility, however, suggested in its report that the legal conclusions were in effect pre-ordained. It said that John Rizzo, the C.I.A. lawyer who requested the opinion, had "candidly admitted the agency was seeking maximum legal protection for its officers" against possible criminal prosecution. Mr. Rizzo objected to the way his remarks were characterized by the office.

[Castro]

Originally posted by Nassir:

I am very certain

that Samatar, in his official capacity, had never permitted the use of torture against civilians

lol

[Thankful]

Originally posted by Castro:

quote:Originally posted by Nassir:

I am very certain that Samatar, in his official capacity, had never permitted the use of torture against civilians

lol

Well thats what the video says also, there isn't a shred of evidenc, that he specifically order any of this. Or that he had power over the problems that were plaguing the nation

 

The question is, did he order any of this to take place? and why are no other people being implicated?

 

There are many alleged in England, I don't see people coming forward as witnesses or complaining.

 

It's sickening that some members of the regime become leaders of their region, while others are the focus of this investigation.

[Ducaysane]

Originally posted by Castro:

quote:Originally posted by ThankfulSP:

They are going after this man because he is seen as someone that doesn't have organized supporters.

Actually, "they" are going after this guy because he was the minister of defense and the prime minister from 1980 to 1990, ostensibly a very brutal decade for Afweyne and his cronies such as Samatar.

 

And what the hell does "organized supporters" mean? You're not going to sing that lame tune of minority clans, are you?

there are other government officials including ministers who lived in America and non of them have been targeted. and btw one of them was muse Rabiile(aun) which i am sure Castro would have different opinion if Muse was the target.

[Castro]

^^^^ Is this place infested with clan mentality or am I hearing tunes from Caden?

 

Atheeryal, Mohamed Ali Samatar is facing a civil suit that the Supreme Court of the United States of America decided to hear. Now, you can harp about minority clans, worse warlords, dead men in their graves or what have you but the highest court in the land decided that this case had enough merit to be heard.

 

I don't give a shit what you believe or what Samatar or any other wretched war criminal like him did in their capacity as minister or president so take your narrow minded clan bullshit elsewhere.

[Jacaylbaro]

It is a step forward in the very right direction ,,,,

[Thankful]

Castro, the Supreme Court is going to decide:

 

"The Supreme Court will decide whether Samatar – a former government official who was sued in his personal capacity– is immune from civil suit in this case."

 

The case surfaces around whether or not he is immune from prosecution. Lawyers always do that, they attack the case before he can even go to trial by stating that the courts dont even have the jurisdiction to hear his case. So that is all the Supreme court is deciding upon. It's important because it will set a precedent for the numerous other ex-government officals from other countries.

 

Also,

 

"This is the first human rights case ever filed addressing human rights abuses committed in Somalia during the brutal Siyad Barre regime."

 

Of all the people living in all the places around the world and after the 20 years of countless human rights abuses, this man is the one and only person that witnesses have been brought forward.

 

The people aren't looking for justice, they are looking for revenge, personally against this man. I don't see any other witnesses coming forward against the countless other war criminals.

 

That's what annoy's me, it's this disgusting double standard, where people want to see "others" punished but not their own!

 

That's why when I read JB, who said "we're doing our job and this is just the beginning."

 

He isn't talking about the guys living under his nose, he's not calling for an investigation of Riyaale or other SNM.

 

All I want to see is some fairness. You obviously don't.

[Jacaylbaro]

waar you're just worried of Morgan's future ,,, naga daa hadalka ,,,

[Castro]

Originally posted by ThankfulSP:

That's what annoy's me, it's this disgusting double standard, where people want to see "others" punished but not their own!

 

That's why when I read JB, who said "we're doing our job and this is just the beginning."

 

He isn't talking about the guys living under his nose, he's not calling for an investigation of Riyaale or other SNM.

I already told you Samatar will not be punished by the US Supreme court because of the avalanche of cases this will bring but that doesn't mean he's not culpable in what happened in Somalia in the 1980's. And the fact that he's from a "minority" clan is even a more ridiculous reason to think he's innocent.

 

By the way, when did the dimwit Riyaale serve as the defense minister of Somalia?

 

All I want to see is some fairness. You obviously don't.

You don't know me like that, atheer.

[Ducaysane]

Siilaanyo was the head of the snm who attacked a peaceful city in 1988 and i don't see anybody accusing him a war crime. I bet the plaintiffs in this case had traveled from Atlanta to welcome siilayo when he was in DC. you can not pick and choose who is criminal.