Truth Seeker and HT Supporters !

[Salafi_Online]

Recant!

[Yusufaddie]

Salaf_online please understand what i am about to say. You have no power on you hidaayah. If All chooses to drive you away you will. Stop scrutinzing brothers as you do as when you make statements which are general you make your broothers angry eg: how you speak baout sufis. I agree some are totally off, however there are some that are on the straight path. Instead of scrutinizing the organization try and scrutinize the objective. Like i alluded in another message if Saudi is the Host of the minhaj us Salaaf us Salih and there is no change for the establishment of khilafah upon the sunnah then the claim of these salafs is also baatil because they have become "comfortable" living under kufaar ruling systems. So brother stop the scrutiny because everyone has to answer for himself. Allah is most forgiving and if your intention is to help islam by supporting the hizb then your actions will be judged by your intentions- Agreed Upon

 

So how can you help the establishment of the khilafah?

[Salafi_Online]

recant!

[Truth Seeker]

you ask me to recant, recant what?

 

Hizb ut Tahrir was founded by a Mujtahid Imam who looked at the problems of the Muslims and upon deeply scrutinising the reality came to the root problem which was the absence of Islam as a state.

 

Upon understanding this reality the Imam looked in the definate sources of Usul, namely the Quran, Sunnah, Ijma Sahaba and Qiyas to derive the method for reestablishing this state and not only this resuming the Islamic way of life.

 

His books are now widely available and cover this whole issue, so the Imam derived a book on the:

 

- Economic System, to explain how the economic system should be implemented.

 

- Social System, to explain the way the relationship between men and women is controlled.

 

- Ruling System, to explain the structure and form the state would take.

 

- Islamic State, articulating the method the Prophet (saw) used to establish the state.

 

etc...

 

Since the Imam past away the Hizb that he established has carried on with this noble aim and has built on his work with the likes of the Funds in the Khilafah state etc...

 

Salafi online, I have had a simple question for you from the start and that was how do you expect to get Khilafah and your response has been that it will appear. This contradicts the reality and is not how the Prophet (saw) established the state.

 

This obligation of working for khilafah requires a Mujtahid to derive the method to establish it. A parody being that it is not for me to look at the Quran, Sunnah, Ijma Sahaba, Qiyas and derive a method for prayer becuase i am not qualified hence i follow someone who is qualified and has done this.

 

Hence a question for you whos opinion do you follow on the method to Establish the state. Where are the books and the evidences to support this.

 

I follow the opinion used by Hizb ut Tahrir, there books and evidences are widely available.

[Truth Seeker]

By the way, i thought we were going to get a detailed response.

 

Im still waiting for your refutation of the haidth of the Prophet (saw) that stated obey even if an Abyssinian was appointed over you. This was to counter your argument that the Khaleef must be of the Quraish.

 

What is your method to establish the state give me a stage by stage evidence by evidence. Forget Hizb ut Tahrir lets here your method for revival.

 

You will notice one thing with the Hizb that it beleives its method to be correct and works towards it without being diverted by the slander thrown at it. It does not make a point of coming in attacking others rather it makes it clear its views and lets people make their decision.

 

So if you beleive your view is strong enough promote it rather than attack another. Lets hear it?

[Salafi_Online]

truth seeker, im not sure whether you had a change to read the post that brother Yusef is responding to. It was maybe 6 pages in word doc. frankly I just lost interest in the whole thing! Let’s agree to disagree(it’s a silly expression), as the saying goes, each to his own, in the end Allah the Majestic will tell us where we differed and who was upon clarity and who was upon misguidance!

 

Imam Barbaaharee one of the great salaf said:

 

If someone comes to debate with you, beware of him. For debating involves argumentation, disputing, seeking to overcome, wrangling and anger. You have been forbidden from all of this. It diverts you both away from the truth. It has not reached us that any of our scholars or people of knowledge argued, debated or disputed. Al-Hasan (al-Basree) said, "The wise man does not argue or seek to overcome with stratagem rather he propagates his wisdom. If it is accepted he praises Allaah and if it is rejected he praises Allaah."

 

[Reported by Abu Nu`aim ibn Hammaad in his Zawaa'id `alaz-Zuhd libnil Mubaarak (no. 30) and Ibn Battah in Ibaanatul-Kubraa (no. 611). Its isnaad is weak, since it contains an unnamed narrator.]

 

 

and Hasan is my salaf, so i must follow his advice!

[Truth Seeker]

Im not going to agree to disagree becauase you not have given an alternative for me to disagree with, all youo have done is try to pick holes in the Hizb yet when i respond to your posts the discussion ends. the questions still stand...

 

More importantly i would like you to express the method you follow and if it is that strong then it will be clear for all (myself included) to follow.

[Truth Seeker]

I apologise in regards to the issue of the khaleef being of the Quraish it is a valid opinion to hold that it is a mandatory condition as the majority of the Ulema held this view. However the opinion I follow and that of Hizb ut Tahrir is that its is a recommended condition (evidence for which I provided) and this was also an opinion of a few such as Imam Baqilani and Imam Qurtubi.

 

I apologise if it came across that I was belittling this view rather I was advocating what I believe to be the correct opinion and the other being incorrect but a valid opinion none the less.

[Yusufaddie]

Salaf_online i must say that i am not suprised about your responses as i have been dealing with salafs for the past 9 years infact my father in law is a salaf sheikh and one common trait of the salaf is that he creates division and decent. Eg. The claims about the practices of dealing with diseases of the heart. Salafs are quick to call Bid'a- however when you ask salafs about pride for example the only thing they can say is that not an atom's weight will be allowed in jannh, when you ask them how do you get rid of it the sometimes reply no- or fearing not to give a response they delay the response by saying they have to research that or ask their sheikh. Evidentally they do not return.

Under sharia'ah when you say in islam (except if qiyas is different) to each his own etc. this denotes a conversatio between a kufr and a mumin

secondly we are not debating here. Truth_seeker and i are simply asking WHAT IS THE METHODOLOGY OF THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE KHILAFAH. let me remind you that the methodology of having hope and continue to worship Allah that Nabi S respond to this and i will quote 2 hadith.

1: an ignorant person is one who does what he wants then HOPES on Allah, and an intelligent person is one who works for what is after death.

2: If we see wrong then muslims are obliged to a: Change it with your hands if not possible then b: then with your tongue if not c: then hate it in your heart and this is the least of all faith.

 

WIth the issue of the khilafah many muslims do not know that it is wrong not to have it so they do not. People who does recoginze that it is fard actually research, orchestrate and writes books like the "funds of the khilafah state", Others speak about it like the conference "Muslim or British while others choose to adopt the least of faith and worship and hope in their hearts that change comes.

WA Fil ukhra ma Tareeqatal Muqaddamul alkhaleefi wa dowlatul islamiyyah?