Bokero Posted May 5, 2007 Khalaf... thanks for your kind words... We Somalis need to move from the mentality of thinking war as means of solving issues!!! with denger of repeating myself... let me re-emphasis prochialism will take NO WHERE!!! WARS SOLVES nothing... our challenges are not to defeat a preceived enemy but to conquer povery and want!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fabregas Posted May 5, 2007 Bokero, i think the title of the thread is wrong and misleading. Because the land belongs to our forefathers and their descendants. The people who occupy them descend from people who originate in the highlands of Tigray region. They have been subjected to the most gross forms of humans rights possible. The objective of freeing these lands in the future, is not to start more wars or creat mischief in the land. Moreover, i don't entertain the idea of any Somalis carrying such feats in the near future. We are divided and amongst the low of the low, thus these adventures would bring more suffering to us. However, if an Islamic orientated leadership or governnship were to arise in Somalia, which united people and economic development were to occur. It would be the duty of the leader to assist the people in this land. Ofcourse those oppressing them would be given plenty of chances to give them more freedom and gurantee their safety. if they were to refuse than we would be compelled to march and free our brothers. Also even go beyond the territory of our brothers and sisters inhabited to the land inhabited by other Muslim groups and free them also. Just as they come to our shores and march to foot of the indian ocean. They say the best form of defence is attack. Hence the reason why Somalia has been decreasing in size and its Christian neighbours have been increasing in size. Of-course these are the utopian rumblings of a young bwelidered refugee in the West. Who acknowledges that no Somali is capable of this feat anytime soon. Nor would i encourage anyone to do so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bokero Posted May 6, 2007 Geel i am not persuaded at all... look my brother.. the Masaai criss-cross two countries and i dont hear them calling for invasion or laying claim!! colonial legacy is something many africans countries suffer from Somalia is not unique in this regard I am of the persuasion of us and against them concept.. Somalis, kenyans, ethiopians and African are in the same boat and we need to work together to solve our collective problems... u will be surprised how much our problems are similiar, !!! poverty, famine, bad leadership governance etc with acceptance of regional economic integration as way to increase trade and lessen poverty, the entire regional will sooner or later will be integrated by economic necessity, and u will achieve u somaliweyne as result, and guess what, u will have kenyans, ugandans, rwandese, Tanzanians, ethiopians and eriterian as bonus! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xoogsade Posted May 6, 2007 Bokero, You will need an independent somali leadership who respresents somali interests to achieve such grand success, and for somalis in particular to benefit from such open borders and trade relations. Stooges never think on a national scale or care about it. Thier efforts go into the survival of their unwanted leadership. They represent the master who isntalled them and gave them the power rather than the people they illegally rule. If Somalia was independent and ruled by leaders somalis elected, trade relations, deplomatic relations, open borders would all serve the interests of somalis in the horn as you pointed out wisely. We need and independent Somalia first to achieve this goal. Somalia is weaker today and can not benefit from trade relations. It hardly rules its sea ports. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Castro Posted May 6, 2007 Originally posted by Bokero: with acceptance of regional economic integration as way to increase trade and lessen poverty, the entire regional will sooner or later will be integrated by economic necessity, and u will achieve u somaliweyne as result, and guess what, u will have kenyans, ugandans, rwandese, Tanzanians, ethiopians and eriterian as bonus! Bokero, no offense saaxib but from whatever you're smoking, I'd like to take a hit. Past Somaliwayn to a larger East Africa-wayn? Pass the roach, atheer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fabregas Posted May 6, 2007 @Bokero, how can we integrate and unite with one who occupies and treats our fellw brothers as animals? This like asking South Lebanon to integrate with Israel and forgot about all their problems. Firstly they must grant equal rights to Somalia. Otherwise one day down the lines, if the correct leadership and economic situation arises we will have to do it ourselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacaylbaro Posted May 6, 2007 Bokero, no offense saaxib but from whatever you're smoking, I'd like to take a hit. ME TOO ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malika Posted May 6, 2007 We are in no position to even start thinking or contemplate a possible war on Ethiopia to reclaim the land distributed by Colonial powers. Havent we learned anything, nothing will be gained by war,we tried in the late 70's and failed despite out mighty army and nationalism. I believe,that war was the end of the Somalia,we never regained our strenght,despite having some glorious moments during that war..Now at present,we have a long journey yet,not an easy one at that too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bokero Posted May 6, 2007 Castro Well, lets say am running of supplies cant share am affraid... on a serious note... regional intergration is not utopian but a reality in many parts Africa..ECOWAS for instant has 15 members states covering entire western africa!! its members can move freely and seek employment.. they are about to luanch a single currency the ECO... THEY have also commissioned regional energy supply etc... SADC the south african version too has similiar arrangments... closer to home the EAST African association (Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania) have move ahead with single parliment... free movement etc CASTRO... because we somalis have been reoccupied with primitive wars doesnt mean other r as stagnant!!! sooner or later we will have to join... so ur nationalism or whatever, else u into, will be smacked by the cold reality of economic intergration... think big!!!... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fabregas Posted May 6, 2007 Bokero, so why has this so called regionalism and mutual economic benefits left the Somalis whom live in Ethiopia and Kenya in appaling political and socio economic conditions? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bokero Posted May 6, 2007 Geel::: you are mixing things!!! The immediate and the long term, the economic and the political... Regional integration has been non-existent in the HORN of Africa, least developed part of Africa, not simply a coincidence set of events... once peace reigns in the region; we will be faced by the cold reality of economics…. Somalis in Ethiopia and in Kenya are poor, u proclaim… but so are the rest of the Kenyans and Ehiopians… Having resided in Kenya for long time I can tell you that Somalis are better than many others! Poverty doesn’t discriminate.. it doesn’t target a tribe or clan.. its profoundly equal in its devastation… In the political sphere Somalis are seen with suspicion, the reason being that many feel that Somalis inclined to be disloyal to Kenya… (Cant comment on Ethiopia not authority on that)—Somalis on the other hand haven’t sort to participate in the political system and don’t embrace education as other Kenyans… As we all know we have racial issue when it comes to other fellow Africans this too hasn’t help the Somali situation in the region! Before I drift away from the topic I just want to conclude by saying this—I am not preoccupied by the past, it’s the future that worries me… and if our future is of prosperity and co-existence then regional integration is a tool to that end… but if its one for domination and fighting more wars!!, then the proclamation of some in this thread is a formula to that end… I subscribe to the first… I want to see a peaceful and prosperous Somalis, Ethiopians, Kenyans and Africans.. I am tired being seen as object of pity and charity as Somali and African by the developed world!!!.. I want to own my future, and our future, a future of promise and pride in not how many we can kill, and render homeless, but how many we can educate... and for those interested...NO havent smoked anything today!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malika Posted May 6, 2007 I believe we do have an issue with intergration, after generations of my family living in a certain part of S Africa, we never intergrated with the locals..We do have a superiority complex over other Africans, this is another topic on its own,but on the view of joining the other African nations in terms of economic,arent we already running million dollar business's in East,South African countries?? I think its about time we ditch the Arab league notion and embrace our African heritage,and intergrate...which will come with its cost. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fabregas Posted May 7, 2007 Bokero, i was referring moreso to the regime in Ethiopia((than Kenya) which occupies and discriminates against a large group of Somalis. Therefore, we support and admire those Somalis that are fighting for self determination and independence from that regime. Our neighbouring countries have also shown a desire to implement( with the help of America) governments and warlords that help their interests.The recent bias in the IGAD and the invasion of Somalia shows this clear bias.One must also not forget that Kenya and Ethiopia still have a defence pact against any agression from Somalia. I believe that Arab league negotiations and meeting would be more honest and frutiful than any meetings set up by IGAD. I understand full well the need for integration and economic mutua cooperation. However, it is slighlty naive to suggest that all is well with our African Christian neighbours. One only has to look at the historical and current roles they are playing in the Somalia conflict. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
