Those who oppose Somaliland's independence....

[AfricaOwn]

I'm having hard time understanding your issues. It maybe very simple to understand, but its not crossing with me.

 

1. Why do you oppose the independence of Somaliland?

 

2. If you oppose Somaliland's independence because of the contested lands. If an agreement is reached to break the land (along clan lines like Erigavo) will that then shut you up?

 

3. Those in Somaliland could care less about the 'Somalinimo'argument some use to oppose SL's independence. I wouldn't want "disloyal" people like them as my countrymen..why would you? Why not bless their independence?

[Abu-Salman]

Because as Muslims, we have no alternative but to unite and struggle together for our common mission, worshipping Allah.

 

Ironically enough for someone reared by those usually associated with hard core secessionism (not without some exaggeration given the ambivalence of most Somalis), since I was captivated by Somali History and pondered upon our common struggle from my childhood, I was even considering "Somali Unity" just a "Diplomatic" step towards a more viable "Islamic East Africa".

 

More urgently, secession has built resentment and is rejected by most communities of Woqooyi Galbeed (even those from Hargeysa are passionately split).

 

While "Security Expenses" divert scarces resources from our dying children in hospitals or badly needed irrigation schemes, a prolonged stalemate means even more suicidal consequences.

 

Even if, through a miracle, all clans agreed to secede (which imply the most improbable separation of whole communities), why should those advocating for basic Islamic principles, as well as common sense, be silenced?

[General Duke]

I will oppose it when it becomes a reality. Until then why waste time on a fairytale?

[AfricaOwn]

Originally posted by General Duke:

I will oppose it when it becomes a reality. Until then why waste time on a fairytale?

I think your Somali dream is truly the fairytale here.

 

Dukey..I don't think you should worry. Somalia can walk without SL. Who needs them really? In the past Somalia has gone without Djiboutie didn't they? Somalia in the long run will do much better without the unpatriotic bunches..think about it. I believe in Somalia success without SL and I think you should too. Its better for all parties if everyone supported SL independence..no more animosity at last.

[Kashafa]

1 Why do you oppose the independence of Somaliland

Aside from the plethora of reasons nomads will mention; for me, it boils down to one issue: the National Security of Somalia(including Somali Galbeed, NFD, and Djibouti) and the Somali people.

 

Ever heard of the wildly successful colonial policy of Divide & Conquer ? When the imperialists came to Rwanda, they measured the width of the noses of it's inhabitants, those with angular noses became the Tutsi, those with broad noses were called the Hutu. And they managed to sow the seeds of division and hatred that lasted generations. They replicated that experiment everywhere they went, reaping enormous gains in revenue, power, and natural resources. They, however, were smart enough to recognize the foundation stone of National Power: Strength thru Unity. Germany scrambled to unite the Germanic people of Europe, spearheaded by Bismarck and the Prussians. France led the charge to quash these upstarts and they got their wussy butts whipped in the humiliating war of 1870. America, then a rising power, set upon a ambitious land-grabbing project, buying Louisana (and a huge chunk of land from the French) usurping Texas and the entire Southwest from Mexico. At the dawn of the 20th century, they found themselves the masters of an rich continent full of natural resources, ready to dominate the world thanks to the inexhaustible coal mines of Pennsylvania, the factories in upstate New York, the arable fields of the South, and the thousands of miles of coastline.

 

At the end of the colonial era, doddering old white men in Paris, London, Washington, and Moscow sat down and with a stroke of a pen, carved out countries on a map, no different than the drawings of a kindergartner, except now, it would shape the fate of millions and set the stage for endless war that still rages on today in Palestine, Kashmir, Afghanistan, Philipines, and elsewhere.

 

The point behind this brief(way too short) historical exposition, my young padawan, is to illuminate, beyond any doubt, the reason why nations fall and rise. Unity = more resources = economic gains = larger population = bigger armies = regional/international dominance(Think America, China, India, Australia, Brazil, etc). Division leads the exact opposite way....towards dissension, defeat, and dhulinimo. Think the squabbling mini-states of Andalusan Spain and the tears of shame shed by the last Muslim Prince as he high-tailed it back to Africa.

 

Building on the Sunan Al-Kowniya stated above, the notion of secession in Somalia is non-starter. Ie, feel free to discuss it academically all you want, feel free to take advantage of the current power vacuum to lobby for recognition, but when the Resistance is done pacifying South Somalia and Puntland, you can rest assured that the next stop is Zeylac, Somalia.

 

If you think you are 'determined' in your 'march to freedom'(straight back to Mama Elizabeth's warm embrace, straight back to Cousin Zenawi's lap), I assure you that you are up against men who will readily see ALL of Somalia burn to the f'ing ground before it's national and strategical security is compromised. They are not alone in their unwavering, uncompromising vision for their people, the Somali-Muslims of East Africa. History, again, is our best guide:

 

Heard you, my fellow Somalian, of Sherman's March to the Sea ? Would love to discuss it, it's implications, lessons, and parallels at length, laakin waa soo khulaasaynaa:

The March to the Sea was devastating to Georgia and the Confederacy. Sherman himself estimated that the campaign had inflicted $100 million in destruction, about one fifth of which "inured to our advantage" while the "remainder is simple waste and destruction."[3] The Army wrecked 300 miles (480 km) of railroad and numerous bridges and miles of telegraph lines. It seized 5,000 horses, 4,000 mules, and 13,000 head of cattle. It confiscated 9.5 million pounds of corn and 10.5 million pounds of fodder, and destroyed uncounted cotton gins and mills.[4] Military historians Herman Hattaway and Archer Jones cited the significant damage wrought to railroads and Southern logistics in the campaign and stated that "Sherman's raid succeeded in 'knocking the Confederate war effort to pieces'."[5] David J. Eicher wrote that "Sherman had accomplished an amazing task. He had defied military principles by operating deep within enemy territory and without lines of supply or communication. He destroyed much of the South's potential and psychology to wage war.

The South never recovered. But at that terrible price, Abraham Lincoln saved the Union and, in doing so, saved America from tearing itself into tiny 'lands'. 10% of the American population perished in that Civil War, all because of some opportunistic, greedy *******s, deciding they wanted to secede to preserve their 'way of life'(slavery). Well, they got what they asked for. Sadly.(for the suffering innocents)

 

My friend, you are up against a national grass-roots force that would make Abraham Lincoln's effort look diminutive. The fact that Burco and Zeylac's own sons are leading the fight down South should be enough evidence of how the Somali-Muslims are and will always be one people. Hopefully, Somalia will be united thorough peaceful means(the runaway successful strategy of sending out local emissaries in '06 is what led the Courts to bring security and Islamic governance to 70% of Somalia). That is what we pray for. But please understand and weigh carefully the grave implications of attempting secession.

 

History does not have a undo button.

[Allamagan]

^ Truly agree, I must admit this is the only time I ever agreed with Kashafa.

[AfricaOwn]

Originally posted by Kashafa:

 

 

If you think you are 'determined' in your 'march to freedom'(straight back to Mama Elizabeth's warm embrace, straight back to Cousin Zenawi's lap), I assure you that you are up against men who will readily see ALL of Somalia burn to the f'ing ground before it's national and strategical security is compromised. They are not alone in their unwavering, uncompromising vision for their people, the Somali-Muslims of East Africa. History, again, is our best guide:

 

it boils down to one issue: the National Security of Somalia(including Somali Galbeed, NFD, and Djibouti) and the Somali people.

 

 

1. So were these men that you speak of "The protectors" of Somalia's territoral intergrity asleep when when Djibouti was gone, Ethiopia took NFD? Why are they willing to burn this sh!t down whenever Somaliland is involved? How are they willing to gain back the other lands which they have lost?

 

2. Was Somaliland better of prior to the Somalia's civil war?

[Gheelle.T]

Originally posted by Allamagan:

^ Truly agree, I must admit this is the only time I ever agreed with Kashafa.

You are agreeing with him coz you are anti-Somalilander

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Somaliland will stay for ever independent dad aan idin rabbin horta maxaad iskugu dha dhajisan thats what i dont get cant they live with out us.

[Kashafa]

So were these men that you speak of "The protectors" of Somalia's territoral intergrity asleep when when Djibouti was gone, Ethiopia took NFD

Good question. Answer: They were not asleep, They just did not exist then, except maybe as sperm and eggs. You see, these sworn protectors of the Territorial and Islamic Integrity of Somalia are mostly under the age of 25, most of them being born in the mid/late 80s, early 90s. They could care less of Qabiil identity, clan complexes and "anaka vs ayaka". Their goal ? A united Islamic Somalia. Period. You got a problem with that ? Beg, borrow, and steal some xaninyos because they will come after you. Or if you cannot, for the life of you, find some xaninyos, then call upon the protection of those who do: Cousin Zenawi and the Ethiopians. That's the only feasible plan I see for you if you are hell-bent on the secession pipe-dream. Didn't work for Cabdullahi Amxaar, hard to see how it'll work for you.

 

You may be loath to admit it, but there is a grand reawakening of the pan-Somali conscious. I know, I know, this flies in the face of everything u've been taught about "anaka vs ayaka". Well, my young padawan, just as HornAfrique lived long enough to watch the fall of Kismayo with disbelieving eyes(OMG, WTH happened ? Tis the end of days!), so too will you live long enough to watch the fall of Hargeisa and the dismantlement of the Xabashi Protectorate there.

 

Was Somaliland better of prior to the Somalia's civil war

First, I take issue with the term 'Somaliland' since I don't recognize it. But for the sake of argument, let's say I do. There was nothing called 'land' prior to the Civil War. There were, Gobols, magaalos, degmos, etc. So rephrase your question. Or are you asking me: "Was my Tol better off prior to Somalia's civil war ?" Is that what u mean

 

Why are they willing to burn this sh!t down whenever Somaliland is involved

lol@whenever Somaliland is involved. My dad, when commenting on the tunnel vision of Somalis, says: When a man has only a hammer, all of his problems look like nails. Hada athiga, duqa, Somaliland ay kaaga dhagtay. So you think that the whole war of resistance against the Ethiopians in general, and against Dhabdhulifia(which includes riyaale, inc) in particular is all due to envy and hatred for Somaliland and it's progress ?

 

Bactha iska fur, waraa. Far waa weyn: THIS IS A WAR OF IDEAS. Pan-Somali,Pan-Islam vs Qabiil, Region. Gaalo-diid vs Gaalo-raac. Islamic governance vs fowr-bointi fife. Gobonimo-doon vs Gun'nimo-doon. Free Men vs Xabashi Slaves(yes, that includes the entirety of ur 'gummint') Need I go on ? Much as you love 'Somaliland', you need to objectively understand and analyze who and what ur up against. "You hate me" is the failed battle cry of Yey'ist dhabodhlifs on this forum. I am sure u can do better.

How are they willing to gain back the other lands which they have lost

Excellent question. How do we (me, you, him, her, them, us) regain Somali Galbeed, NFD, and Djbouti, Somali territory we lost to colonial scheming and division ?

 

It will be a long, hard, slog. But if Bismarck could unite the forcibly divided Germanic people. Then by Allah, we will unite the Somali-Muslims of East Africa, come what may come, be what may be, inshallah. How ? That is for all of us to figure out. Will you lend me a hand, brother ?

[NGONGE]

^^ You look cute in your red cumaamad and toy guns, Kushkush. I think I shall leave the historical lessons and preening to my guru here.

 

As for Africa Owen, you do ask the most pointless of questions, saaxib. Half of those opposing Somaliland have no logical reason to do so. They are just 'uncomfortable' with the idea and neither you nor anyone can force them to 'feel' otherwise.

[Fabregas]

Just don't like there food, mate. You got a problem with that?

[ilax]

^^Kashafa, well done saaxiib, laakin u tartiibi^ .

 

But, for the sake of clarity, do all inhabitants in the Northern Region are willing to secede or is this a political manoeuvring by the elite. I don’t see economic justification for opposing separation; it’s more political and national unity.

 

This issue of secession came in to existence during Barre reign cos of the political turmoil and wide spread mal-administration. the seccesionist ideology stemmed out of this bad governance, and supported by the traditional foe of Somalia Rep to weaken and fragment the nation as we have seen already.

Then, if that oppressive reign is over and there is a room for political re-instatement, why do people in the driving seat of this area still obsess with secession in this globalising world?

But, one thing for sure, the people in that Region have ultimate power to decide their future political setup.

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by ilax:

^^Kashafa, well done saaxiib, laakin u tartiibi^ .

 

 

 

Then, if that oppressive reign is over and there is a room for political re-instatement, why do people in the driving seat of this area still obsess with secession in this globalising world?

What room for political re-instatement is that exactly? You talk as if Somalia is nice and peaceful and everything is working fine.

[Allamagan]

Originally posted by Gheelle.T:

quote:Originally posted by Allamagan:

^ Truly agree, I must admit this is the only time I ever agreed with Kashafa.

You are agreeing with him coz you are anti-Somalilander

Somalia already suffered under colonial rules by chopping/dismembering our land, Somalia into five different entities, some were given away to others as a gift so in all honest it is extraordinarily unbearable for me to witness another dismemberment unfolding right in our eyes at this time and age where we know even once devided nations once again unite for the better. Thats why I am against this wicked idea/madness as it is not in the interest of our somali people in genral and that of our northern brothers in particular. Caqligu Ha Shaqeeyo!