The secessionist fear...

[Khalaf]

Originally posted by General Duke:

WOW........our ppl went through all of that and we still cant get along and work for greater good. I dont c why somaliland wont stay as it is.........build rest of somalia first before thinking about somaliland.

 

Caamir what does this mean?

 

Those advocating Islamism must realize that the national political experience of the people is past the age when raw ideology and naked power could resuscitate the State. A Somali scholar and activist, Hirad.

[SomaliThinker]

Hello Somaliaonline!!! I am glad and honored to have been given a chances to join this great site. Unlike other sites with clan bashing and over the top name calling this site does not allow it. To start my journey in this forum i want to hit the hot topics and debate the tough crowds. Not for for fun but to learn and see each others view points. For me i want to debate the debaters in this forum. To my best knowledge i will answer General Dukes comments and questions. Hopefully we create an open window were both Somalilanders and Unionist see each other view point.

 

 

General you asked three question which are

1.A Somali government recognize by the world and in control of the country.

 

2. A united “South” with Mogadishu, Kismayu, Bossaso under one administration.

 

3. Losing their “Special” status tag as Mogadishu becomes ever more stable

 

 

Let me begin with your first question. A recognized government in the south will not at all in my view change the fundamental dynamics on the ground in Somaliland. Instead we will be were we should have been a decade ago with two governments talking about the issue of somaliland independence. The U.S., E.U. A.U. and U.N. all know the somaliland issue but have not ever took the issue of solving it seriously. Having a government in somalia for me only will hasten bring the issue to the for-front and hopefully be solved peacefully. You and I know that war even in the north between Somaliland and Somalia will bring nothing but more somali blood in area already filled with somali blood. Thats my take on somalia's control of the south.

 

Your second question was "A united “South” with Mogadishu, Kismayu, Bossaso under one administration" a threat to somaliland is again in my view not serious threat at all. Those region will need a long time to develop infurstruter, governments, law and order, but the thing we always forget to look at is the unseen factors that may play in somalia. Each regions have their own interests and goals, so Mogadishu may want their port to be the main big port of the nation, with more development and aid thus may cause problems with areas like Bossaso who may want their own port to be the biggest. Thus my point being Duke dont assume that this regions will be happy go lucky with no issues. You and i can not see the future especially somali future withs ups and downs so to answer your question; while its good these regions looks to be on stable path, their actions visa vie with other areas of somalia is not known which could be a good thing or a bad thing.

 

Your third question "Losing their “Special” status tag as Mogadishu becomes ever more stable" is in my view an opinion. You and i dont know what will happen but for awhile somaliland will have the special status in that its the only region with democratically elected government from local level to national. It will be awhile for somalia to reach that. There are politcal parties the first in long while in somaliland. None exist in Somalia, gross root organizations have leg up in the North not so much in the south, Plus with the issue of terrorism especailly in the south the Hub of the ICU i would assume most NGO and U.N. office will stick up in Somaliland. Another key aspect which makes Somaliland Special Status is its wish of being a independent nation, that by itself will make it have the Special Status with U.S., U.N. A.U. who will have diplomats going to that nation for the future talks between Somaliland and Somalia. Dont assume Duke by Mogudishu being stable Somaliland wont, people their will still go to work, kids will still go to school, bussiness will still be there growing, life will go own, as it will in the rest of the world. So lets not be future tellers and say i think this will happen lets wait and see and talk about it when it happens, but if we do make future pridections remeber others will have different ones to yours.

 

On a side note you said "Riyaale and his regime are facing much internal problems with many die hard “Somalilanders” unable to come to terms with the loss of SOOL, SANAG & CAYN regions to Somaliweyn" You view Sool, Sanag, and Cayn as already lost to Puntland. the way i see it those regions are disputed and no Puntland troops are in Western Sol, Western Sang, and with Cayn please tell me if i am wrong is it not in Togdheer region in the bottom. If it is i see it as a double standered. The reason being its in Togdheer region which is majority in support of Somaliland i wonder why people dont see it as double standard, I look in old Somalia maps of the regions and could not find Cayn, it was in my view recentlly made regions because of clanism and nothing more. So if people can pick and choose areas in regions to claim dont be to upset with somaliland as well. Regardless going back to your question i dont in the end for see those regions being to much factor for somaliland causes, In my view if the over all people dont want it let them go and move on.

 

You also made the claim "Somaliland has no army, what so ever and they can not venture outside the traingle of Berbera-Hargaysa-Burco" Thats not true in that Somaliland troops are in Sang, and Sol. Would you like it if somaliland army had occupation troops in all the towns and citys in the disputed regions. I think its sound move to have small foot print in those two regions until the issue of SOL, and Sang and resolved in peacfull manner. Going back to somaliland having no army i know you meant it as joke right? U.N. Ethiopia, seen and know of somaliland army. Dont you remeber the two somaliland soliders that left to join the ICU they were somaliland army solider trained in Ethiopia. Somaliland has army which is organised into 12 divisions which comprise of 4 tank brigades, 45 mechanized and infantry brigades, 4 commando brigades, surface-to-air missile brigade, 3 artillery brigades, 300 field battalions. Majority of somaliland budget go's to the army as you know.

 

So in closing my view of somalia state itself coming back dose not worry me. What does is will we talk together respectfully to come to some sort of understanding or will we in the end start war bring us back to square one with the north becoming what the south was.

[General Duke]

Somali thinker, I thank you for your effort, I liked the last point you made.

 

So in closing my view of somalia state itself coming back dose not worry me. What does is will we talk together respectfully to come to some sort of understanding or will we in the end start war bring us back to square one with the north becoming what the south was.

[RedSea]

Khalaf,good eye bro..it's amazing that Muslims have taken western Propoganda to the heart.True slaves of wrongful idealogy are they not?

 

Back to the topic:

 

Mr.duke (daba dhilif) let me add little bit more to what has nicely been highlighted by our good mr.Thinker.

 

 

1.Somali "government" which is recognised and controls the whole "country"?

 

Where do you have a government that has control of the country? which country? if we assume that this political chunk of the TFG was somali "government" then wouldnt' that include Somaliland,or have you personally recognised SL as different entity? you are contradicting yourself,confused and has lost touch with common sense.

 

2.United "South" with Muqdisho etc... under one admin.

 

Once again,the only chance of that happening was when the ICU was in control which brought Kismayo and Muqdisho under one entity.Peace and tranquilty was prevailing then,but that didn't last after the naked aggression of the Ethiopians,which you support dearly.So I am wondering,how do you even dare to speak against SL when the "south" you speak of doesn't unite nor will unite under your Tigray driven political chunk of TFG,not much chance of it ever evolving into legitamate government.Which means,that SL will remain a state looking for recognition from the international community as they have in the past whether the South had peace or was in turmoil.Somaliland has been here for the last fifteen years,remained there, and will be.so what news do you have for us mr.dabo dhilif?

 

3. Losing their Status as Muqdisho becomes even more stable:

 

Another point,which arogantly doesn't even come in contact with reality.Your predictions are based on "ifs",but Muqdisho was stable city under the ICU so was the whole south,you were the one who was afraid of losing any status which you may have had.I was in support of stable Muqdisho(I as Hargeysawi),you weren't,you refered the good folks of the ICU that replaced hope in the hearts of the ordinary civilians as thugs,very short time ago wasn't it.So my question,on behalf of whom are you speaking of? the southerners,sorry you will not be able to fool anyone as you desperately try to cover up the mess looming in Southern somalia,deal with that,SL is there for me to deal.Whether SL isn't doing well or not,one thing is for sure,it's that it strongly relies on its diapora,we have delivered in the last 15 years and surpassed anyone,no sign of that stoping,brainpower and willful citizens is the way to go these days,serving the interests of other countries isn't going to get you anywhere as you assume it would,it will simply backfire on the political chunk of the TFG which you cheer for most of the time,get a dose of reality buddy.

 

Furthermore,read carefully the message which is superbly scripted by Lander,Suldaanka,Somalithinker,and others here.

 

However,before I depart let me get back to the redicolous point which you have blindly made, which you stated that SL doesn't any army WHATSOEVER,that point should clear indication of the state of mind you are in,denial mode,as arogant as that point was also highlights the possbility that everything else you scripted of having any truth to it.

 

Mr.the Point,you sound like a man who has done his homework,but can you show me,the government which you speak,it's all "Ifs".I would have agreed with your point,but which government is there that counters the success of Somaliland.Somaliland's capital is Hargeysa,if the TFG claims its capital to be Xamar,then gues what,the possibility of Xamar citizens accepting such piece of chunk to rule over them is not happenning,you can sugar coat it as much as you want guys,but it aint happening,people got taste of the goodness of the ICU,they want them back..now.

[bambo]

REDsea"the TFG claims its capital to be Xamar,then gues what,the possibility of Xamar citizens accepting such piece of chunk to rule over them is not happenning,you can sugar coat it as much as you want guys,but it aint happening,people got taste of the goodness of the ICU,they want them back..now".

 

 

Redsea what if the resident of xaamar take their chance and dis arm , and Tfg Delivers Peace and stability how would your attitude change towards TFG .

 

Union of islamic court is gone sxb , we have to move on and can let the warlords steal the momentem .

 

keep in mind even Icu never disputed legitimates of the TFG .

 

goin back to choas and etc are not beneficial and alternative to oppose TFG .

[General Duke]

^^^Its not us who romantacise the colonial period or make it the myth of national existance.

 

Rememebr Edna Adan "We are the orphansa of her majesty the queeen of England"

 

Oh was Egal not alleged to have written to PM Rabin of Israel?

 

And if one wants to talk about Ethiopia, was it not chairman Faisal Warrabe" The child born in Adis is closer to me than tha child born in Mogadisu"

 

Or where these gaffes?

 

So far only the thinker has brought some valid suggestion.

[RedSea]

Bambo,you are too soft buddy,how quick for you to fall in love with falsehood,I am amazed.You can't let falsehood win,buddy,as the somali saying goes,hal xaaran ah,nirig xalaal madhasho.What if" isn't the point of discussion here,we know what the TFG is made of,thus it has zero chances of succeeding.You must not forget the fact that Xabashis are roaming the streets of Xamar,how can you let this not bother you,never ever forget that.

 

Duke,as we speak,you are romanticing the occupation of Ethiopians of your capital,don't you see this,well I gues not,because you are desperately trying to draw attention from this shameful period which your uncle and Geedi is to be blamed for,nice try but hey I am not one that will let you off the hook.

 

Faysal Cali waraabe made those low remarks,however none is lower than the fact that your uncle had the guts to be a doorknob for Ethiopians to come to his country physically and kill other Somalis,even bombarded the capital of Xamar,isn't that lower than anything in the history of Somalis,what a shame,once again sorry to not fall for your foolishness and desperate attempts to draw the attention from hall of shamers,the problem is in your backyard,focus on it.As for Somaliland,it's been fine an shining star in the horn of Africa,it will remain so,Insha allah with better leader like Sh.Shariif Axmed,Somaliland can reach its potential.

 

Was Igal not "alleged" to have written a paper to the Jews,looool.goodness are you serious,you must be out of your daba dhilif mind to say that,even the a year old knows that was not authentic,oh how desperate are you getting here,waar dhuusada naga aad yar,waamaxay looxani.

 

Just this week Aideed jr. called for unification of Ethiopia and Somalia,Barre Hiiraale said they would use even the help of the Jews to fight their own Somalis all these are peice of the political chunk of the TFG.lol

 

dont' you see all these mr.denial?

[Liqaye]

Lander you lie abominably

[N.O.R.F]

Gee look at my muscles. They are huge, They are pumped with xabashi steriods and only took two weeks to get that big! The steriods will begin to wane soon and my muscles will deflate,,,,,,,

[Che -Guevara]

^^^he wants to bunch your lights out before those muscles get deflated.

 

Duke....Waxaaga waa garoor geel kakayn.

[Jacaylbaro]

waxaan la yaabay kolba qolo ayaa xamar qabsata markaasay somaliland ku soo jeestaan ,,, hadhow marka laga saarana oohintooda iyo baryo xumadooda lagama fadhiyo ,,,,,,,,, waar hoy u kaadiya ,,,,,,,,

[AYOUB]

The fears

1. A Somali government recognize by the world and in control of the country.

Warlords and their checkpoints ain't no government.

2. A united “South” with Mogadishu, Kismayu, Bossaso under one administration.

Yes, under one administration, Ethiopian administration.

3. Losing their “Special” status tag as Mogadishu becomes ever more stable.

Somaliland is the only place where Somalis have no foreign troops supervision. Not DjIbouti, not Ogden (K5), Not Somalia (K6) and not NFD. If that's not "special status", what is Duke Smith?

 

There is a shift of emphasis away from Hargaysa and towards Mogadishu of late.

I'm guilty of over-estimating your intelligence that's all. Don't confuse sympathy and respect for some members of the ICU who were men of principle - unlike the warlords you cheer - for fear.

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by Mujaahid: Red Sea:

 

Mr.the Point,you sound like a man who has done his homework,but can you show me,the government which you speak,it's all "Ifs".I would have agreed with your point,but which government is there that counters the success of Somaliland.Somaliland's capital is Hargeysa,if the TFG claims its capital to be Xamar,then gues what,the possibility of Xamar citizens accepting such piece of chunk to rule over them is not happenning,you can sugar coat it as much as you want guys,but it aint happening,people got taste of the goodness of the ICU,they want them back..now.

It is still not a done deal but the momentum seems to be in that direction. C'est tout.

[RedSea]

^What momentum,or do you l as others believe that Somaliland benefits from the failures in southern Somalia? c'mon now bro,you are far too smart to fall for that crap.

[RedSea]

Originally posted by LIQAYE:

Lander you lie abominably

ok if he did,then how,go ahead tell us plz,don't feel shy now..