The Winds of Change: Triumphant Mujahideen

[Johnny B]

^Ngonge asked me to try and make a point of your initial rambling Laba xininyodow, what he didn't ask me however is to answer threats and empty once at that.

 

To be frankly honest Mr twoBalls, You got it blatantly wrong, my problem is not Mohammad ibn Cabdulwahaab,and his teachings , that is for those who can differentiate his writings from any other Abdul-bla bla's writings.

 

The point is Somalia is a country , and not religion (Islam), this is a distinction you Islamist-wanna beez need to sink in.

 

The religion of Islam engulfs over a billion throughout many nations/countries, and Somalia is one tiny of those nations/countries.

 

That al-shabab is a political failure is not something, 'they spread Mohmmad Abdulwahab's version of tawheed' or 'Ethiopia is our enemy' can plaster.

That reactionary movement lacks real political visions and is purely hate-oriented, hence facing the failure.

 

Next?!

[Buuxo]

ME,it's a graveyard not a house we need to respect the dead. And did they act lawfully? Islam teaches there's no compulsion in religion and tolerance.

[UZTAAD]

please read this bellow article , you will see how ignorant and angery Wadaads(Fundamentali st) is causing havoc and holding back this unfortunate nation, our intelegent should guid us not our emotions.

 

http://www.wardheern ews.com/Articles_09/ September/Cabdullaah i_Aadam/06_Wadaaddo_ Xanaaqsan.html

[UZTAAD]

absolutely, buuxa, the graves they are diggig and disrespecting are the the graves of the sheikhs who spreaded Islam in our country. they deserve our respect , today somalia is almost 100% muslim because of the those sheikhs

[Malika]

Originally posted by Sophist:

Johny Murtad, you have no say in the affairs of our beautiful religion which you have abandoned at will. Marka, adiga waxaad tiraahdo wax kasoo qaad malaha.

 

Ngone, if you want to debate the issue with LX then be serious. The man is above par then Kashafa!.

 

LX,nin karmeed aleyleh.

 

S.

:eek: @ the arrogance!

 

There is nothing new LX has said,that Kashafa has not passionately expressed..

 

of course with tupac in the background.

[LayZie G.]

For now their goal must be to educate the masses.

Restoration of educational facilities, infrastructure and renovating decrepit buildings is already underway. Roads have been cleared of obstacles and transport flows smoothly across a wide network of cities.

The Somali people need something they can take to the bank and no amount of "must be's" would assure Shacabka that a local m**ryaan who take orders from their foreign sponsors aka God Fathers will have their best interest at heart. But it doesn't mean you can stop pumping oxygen to the "must be", the "could be" or "the would be" and the rest of the be's, as long as it makes you feel better. Infact you can resuscitate it one last time ya labo?

 

On the matter of shabaab's revamp of the nation and their restoration projects, it is neither here nor there because we can't confirm any of their extra curriculum activities beside the reports of suicide bombings and mass civilian casulty. With that said, you can delude yourself all day and all night but YOU CAN NOT bend the truth to further your self interest and the interest of those you idolize.

 

To further touch on the restoration process, if any such rebuilding is happening and progress is seen in some counties more than others, surely the credit heavely sides with the community and the local businesses and not the shabaabs as you claim. The same Shabaab whose operation is reported to be on life support due to shortage of funding, which is due to the heavily enforced bans of recent month. And to add insult to injury, they can't feed the soldiers, so how it that they will manage to do anything but plan where the next sucide attack will occur? Suicide attack=one less mouth to feed

 

Face it ya LABO, these m***ryaans and their foreign backers have a mandate to carry and none to do with attempt to transform the social and political landscape of our beautiful country.

 

 

PS: If I want to tan off the shores of kismaayo, I will not be asking anyone's permission, I will just do it but then again Dukey is ready to build a house in bosaso for me and a condo in garowe, so I don't think that will be a problem, dont u agree?

[Taleexi]

Originally posted by LayZie G.:

 

PS: If I want to tan off the shores of kismaayo, I will not be asking anyone's permission, I will just do it but then again Dukey is ready to build a house in bosaso for me and a condo in garowe, so I don't think that will be a problem, dont u agree?

[/QB]

Let bygones be bygones, fortunately/unfortun ately for the moment you to tan off on Kismayo shores appears to be very remote. However, let us face it, Al Shabaab does both good and bad like any other player in the conflict so, let us not be emotionally driven and credit where Al Shabaab excels for instance bringing some sort of semblance of governance in thier sphere is undeniable.

[Paragon]

LX, my dear cousin, how have you been since we last spoke. I hope your health is tiptop and you're as fit as a fiddle.

 

Do me a favour brother. I would like to be fair and hear the observations (based on real events) that you may make of how things are now with Al-Shabaab's drive. So, through sound reasoning, convince me that this is indeed the true wind of change. Convince me fadlan.

 

Other than that, igu salaan.

[Sophist]

LX ninkarmeed iyo dhashiis. As Febregas says, the sons of noble cushites and Arab Somalis will win over the baadil and Kufr.

 

Regards,

 

S.

[RedSea]

Masha Allah SOL has hope. Here I was thinking that this important board was taken over by bunch of foxnews watching nutcases. Bravo LX.

[NASSIR]

Originally posted by Mansa Munsa:

quote:Originally posted by LayZie G.:

 

PS: If I want to tan off the shores of kismaayo, I will not be asking anyone's permission, I will just do it but then again Dukey is ready to build a house in bosaso for me and a condo in garowe, so I don't think that will be a problem, dont u agree?

Let bygones be bygones, fortunately/unfortun ately for the moment you to tan off on Kismayo shores appears to be very remote. However, let us face it, Al Shabaab does both good and bad like any other player in the conflict so, let us not be emotionally driven and credit where Al Shabaab excels for instance bringing some sort of semblance of governance in thier sphere is undeniable. [/QB]

Indeed Mansa.

 

LX, though you have raised unassailabe points, can you enlighten the public on the model structure and form will al-Shabaab Government in Somalia adopt based on the Shariah law? Or can we simply borrow proven and workable strategy of governance outside the Shariah system provided that it does not contravene?

As Prof. Cabdiraxman saw in his experience with the Council of Islamic Courts, they were weak on the public administration and international relations.

[Abtigiis]

Labaxinninyod,

 

If I haven't been clear before, let me put it to your face. I don't want a form of Sharia which allows amputations, forbids women from walking to the next shop and do their shoppings, forbids any debate on any social issues, prohibits the progression of art, music and sports. Is that clear enough? If that means I am not in line with the form of Islam you and Alshabab preach and gives me names, let it be!!

 

What is primitive about the Alshabab is that they want to ban TVs, Internet, and all forms of access to other sources of knowledge and enlightment. They want to deny women the opportunity to work and educate themselves.

 

Now, I know you will try to descredit the facts I listed by either claiming that I heard from talkshows or the biased western media, or by stating that what I am inadvertantly doing is oppose 'Islam'.

 

My answer to you will be (1) that not all that the west say is false and no matter how hard we hate or disagree with them, wisdom dictates that we seriously look into what they say about us and see what we can do to fix some of the shortcomings with the practice of our religion. Millions of Somali's (who are not White Albions or Yankees) already disagree with the Talibanisation of Somalia. It is hypocratical and self-serving to discount the importance of this and to spew out zealous rethroic is not convincing objective minds.

 

(2)In the end, if Islamic religion is going to appeal to its masses and if you do not want to see it remain only in textbooks and to be deserted as happened to many branches of the Christian faith, it needs to take into account the present day realties and dynamic tranformation of the way we live. This realisation does not call for a fundamental overhaul of the basic tenets of the religion, nor does it mean whoever calls for this has bad intentions. Shallow-minded individual's reaction to this is to ask a foolish question: "So you are saying that the Quran is out of date?" And to bully anyone who raised the question.

 

A more rational response would have been to ask if there were precedents, where present day oracles and Culumas have looked at issues brought up by modernity which are facing us today and came up with decrees that can offer plausible answers without undermining the basic teachings of ISlam. Issues such as contraceptives, etc.

 

Likewise, It is my firm belief that in modern world, and somalia can not remain an isolated island, where people have to earn their livelihoods not by tending to camels and cattle but by going to offices, malls etc, new challenges arise to the prescriptions hitherto given by our religous texts. In this regard, the culuma will need to come up with ideas that conform to the rationale for which some archaic rules have been written, but which will alter its practical applications. If we are not in denial, those changes are happening everyday, and tacit acceptance of some realities is dawning on muslim scholars, but open admission to it is still frowned upon. This is because there is a misconception that making vital additions/ omissions will take the Islamic faith to the level of other frequently evolving religoions and will sully its sanctity. I don't share that idea and in any case, issues that need to be adapted to present day realties aren't that many. It can be done without either opening floodgates or going away from the basic teachings of the religion.

 

Finally, If what I am saying look like the utterances of an agnostic or an orientalist, it is not. I am a devout muslim who practice his religion. I adhere strictly to all the 'do's and do not's' of it and my Iman is firm. But I also have been discussing with lots of muslim intellectuals who are not afraid to share their perspectives on what they think needs to be reformed in our religion. This is the list:

 

1. Stop all kinds of cruel ways of punishments (Capital punishment must be there but the way with which it is done needs to be changed. What is the point of stabbing someone to death in public view? What does that add to our faith?)

 

2. Stop amputations and punish thieves with equally punishing ways, but which allow room for the punished to live like normal one he repents)

 

3- Stop stonning people to death (adultery must be punished but why not firing squad for instance). It makes a lot of difference. You can not say the end is the same!

 

4- Allow women to go to work place and to do their business as they wish, without male escorts. This is already the case in most parts of somalia! It is even practical in a setting where people need to go out and work (I mean men) to be also expected to tend to the walking-needs of their spouses?!! You will extend this a bit far and hypocratically say I am saying LET WOMEN BASK IN BEACHES OR BARS! that is your words not mine, nor my intention.

 

5- Allow arts,music, media and sports to thrive. But be responsible with the extent of 'freedom' and do not allow corrupting brands of any of this fields!! (No pornography, blasphemy etc)

 

None of these is calling for a Marxist egalitarianism between men and women.

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by Sophist:

LX ninkarmeed iyo dhashiis. As Febregas says, the sons of noble cushites and Arab Somalis will win over the baadil and Kufr.

 

Regards,

 

S.

Actually, you'll find that Fabregas is parodying Kashafa there.

 

Wa marka labaad aad LX amaantid! Arr ma lacag bu kugo leeyahay?

 

LX,

 

Here is something I wrote in 2006. The same questions remain.

 

Originally posted by NGONGE:

Caaqil,

 

 

Still, there are many others that don’t care for such hatred and are only interested in peace and progress. Look around you in this site and you’ll see many from other parts of Somalia (Somaliland, Puntland, etc) that support the ICU. They do because they believe that this group’s intentions are purely, totally and completely Islamic! This might be true ( I sincerely hope it is) but for the moment, and unless you’re in the ‘know’, only an extremely optimistic person (with very bad memory) would afford them anything more than cautious support.

 

Granted that, sometimes, emotional tidal waves of goodwill carry movements, people and ideologies along to safety. It’s very possible that the cheer optimism and total conviction of the ordinary Somalis will help in turning the ICU dream into observable reality (and that I have no problem with). However, for now, and as a sane person, I can’t help but ask the questions that need to be asked and that I put forward when the TFG was put in place or the TNG or even when the previous government of the Republic of Somalia was toppled. That the ICU came along donning a religious garb gives these questions even more importance and magnitude.

 

Right now, the ICU are busy having a war of words with the TFG (and a one-sided one with Ethiopia). This is very distracting and, still, tells me nothing about the goals, aims and plans of the ICU. I’m sure it has not escaped your attention that people are comparing them to the Afghani Taliban! Are they and if they’re not, how are they different? What Islamic model do they propose to use when they’re in control of the whole of Somalia? Will they be joining the Untied Nations or will they stand on their own feet? How about debts, the economy, capitalism, globalisation and the way the world is run these days? Will they join the human race or will they isolate Somalia along the lines of religious principles? Note that I don’t ask these questions because I want them to do these things, the questions are put forward to know what sort of government the ICU will be and how the country will be run.

 

Again, I repeat, bringing peace alone to the capital is not enough (in the longer term). One has to understand their plans and strategies before one could fully support them. Iran is an Islamic Republic but I don’t agree with nor support the Iranian model. Saudi Arabia is an Islamic Kingdom but I don’t support nor agree with the Saudi model. What will Somalia be and how?

 

Yesterday it was ICU and today it's Al Shabab but the same questions remain! And, what if they Shabab let us down just like ICU did? Look at good old Sh. Sharif and where he is today, saaxib.

[Fabregas]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

quote:Originally posted by Sophist:

LX ninkarmeed iyo dhashiis. As Febregas says, the sons of noble cushites and Arab Somalis will win over the baadil and Kufr.

 

Regards,

 

S.

Actually, you'll find that Fabregas is parodying Kashafa there.

 

LOL. Sophist is misquoting me there. I don't remember saying such a thing, well a apart from the cushitic- arabian part. Though the word thoroughbred is loaned from Abu Khashafa Al ghettowi, the islamic tribesman etc etc is my own independent label, certified with a platinum farax factor by solomon cawale Islamist cyber media .

 

As for this thread: good piece of propaganda.

[Saddiiq]

Abraar, assalamu aleykum.

 

 

1st of all the reason I chose to respond to your post, although I don't usually participate here, is because you made your point honestly and I want to reply honestly. We are probably not going to agree, but I felt you should atleast better understand the ideas you are opposing. 1st it requires of you to take yourself out of the society you live in and just focus on the nature of human beings and the nature of communities. Because if you measure Shariya by the standards of how things are done in London or New York, or the way things were done before Somalia collapsed, it will never suit those standards. 2ndly the Shariya came as a whole, and in order for it to work, it must be applied in whole because when you remove one piece, the rest will collapse.

 

If you say we will not cut the hand of a thief, how are you going to tell the homosexual he is disobeying Allah? He'll simply reply 'so are you'. You pick and choose with regard to theft, he picks and chooses with regard to sexuality. Both are disobeying Allah swt. The Church can't challenge gays because the Christians are hypocrites themselves and the gays know it. And you are following in their foot steps, while speaking the same words. Why is Allah important when it comes to gays, but not when it comes to punishing a thief. If it's about "culture", look around you, cultures change. Even a 5 year old will tell you it's nifaaq.

 

 

If I haven't been clear before, let me put it to your face. I don't want a form of Sharia which allows amputations, forbids women from walking to the next shop and do their shoppings, forbids any debate on any social issues, prohibits the progression of art, music and sports. Is that clear enough? If that means I am not in line with the form of Islam you and Alshabab preach and gives me names, let it be!!

You don't like amputations maybe because;

1) you havn't read ayah (5:38)

2) maybe you have read the ayah but you think blood is gross, in which case we'll go back to what I said about human nature. Maybe you've been trained to believe taking something that doesn't belong to you is not that big a deal. Because statistics prove that's exactly what the kuffar system does. It's badass to go stick people up, get the ski mask yadi yada. So take him to jail.

 

Then the thief is back on the streets. What does society say. 'Oh he did time for armed robbery, stay out of his way' etc. And how about when they see the man with one hand. Not that cool anymore. Allah knows the nature of his creation, how they think, how they behave etc. Cut the mans hand, he won't do it again, and when the kids see him they won't say 'wow he did time for armed robbery, stay out of his way!'. They'll say 'look at this poor man with 1 hand, i don't wanna be that that'. Justice is not just putting on the hand cuff, and placing somebody in a box. You have to ask how does society see things, and how do they respond to these punishments. Islam takes all this into account, while those who follow their desires end up missing the picture.

 

Your point about shopping is false. If there is a condition, mention the condition and explain why the idea of mahram is unnecessary when you see the result of your thinking in the west. Even women in the west ask to be walked when they go here or there, and if we do a survey to see just how many of them get harassed on a day to day basis. It's not seen as a big deal in the west, but Islam does not allow that. A good Islamic scholar once said, "Islam believes in prevention, not intervention". So instead of having this women crying and trying to remember what her attacker looked like so the artist can sketch it and put it on the news, and ohh it was too dark to see his face yadi yada, just have a mahram.

 

What is primitive about the Alshabab is that they want to ban TVs, Internet, and all forms of access to other sources of knowledge and enlightment. They want to deny women the opportunity to work and educate themselves

Ban on TVs or TV channels? False

Ban on Internet? False

Ban on "all forms of access to other sources of knowledge and enlightenment"? False

Privacy is protected in Islam. What the authorities have a right to minitor is what is shown on public screens (cinemas), because now you are introducing your private matters to the public and there is no limit after that because you cross a phsycological barrier. If you can watch it publicly, why not advertise it publicly, and then if gurpreet can have a girl friend on the screen, why can't i in real life. Allah knows the creation, therefore He swt stops fahisha at the doorstep, while those who govern according to how they feel continue on their downword spiral.

Now, I know you will try to descredit the facts I listed by either claiming that I heard from talkshows or the biased western media, or by stating that what I am inadvertantly doing is oppose 'Islam'.

 

My answer to you will be (1) that not all that the west say is false and no matter how hard we hate or disagree with them, wisdom dictates that we seriously look into what they say about us and see what we can do to fix some of the shortcomings with the practice of our religion. Millions of Somali's (who are not White Albions or Yankees) already disagree with the Talibanisation of Somalia. It is hypocratical and self-serving to discount the importance of this and to spew out zealous rethroic is not convincing objective minds.

You have the ability to oppose Islamic laws, and in return Muslims have the ability to oppose kufr. This is the Sunnah of Allah swt. No magic involved. The best man and ideology will win. And Allah swt already told us the result.