Ethiopian army will leave Somali soil “only when Somalis make peace among themselves

[Lois Lane]

Me,

 

I fully agree. Peace and strengh is found in our unity. We are weak because we let anyone demonize the next Somali, the next clan and thus we believe those lies. If we saw eachother as Somalis first, this type of crap would not even be an issue.

 

Yes indeed, Ethiopia is a merciless ennemy of ours, however looking back in history ethiopia was always able to succeed due to our lack of unity. Lets face it, we all want the same thing, Somalia to prosper, peace and a country where we can live in.

 

But now a united front is a must! We can not afford to miss that opportunity otherwise, ethiopia will be here to stay and we will send young Somali men to fight battles that the rest of the population could have won by simply becoming a strong united nation.

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Mr. Me, you have a very strong opinion when it comes to Laascaanood issue. You do not use terms like 'division' or 'unity must be there' when the native residents are against others.

 

You have a very deep, personal opinion when it comes to Laascaanood, and rightly so. Laakiinse, you should too have those strong opinions in Muqdisho and what is happening the South in general. Waa magaalo madaxdaada, waa dalkaaga.

 

Laascaanood, after all, dad Soomaali ku dagaalamaayo, dad at the end of the tunnel ah walaalo isku dhalay, kala dhalayna ilmo. Muqdisho, in addition of few Soomaalis Xabashi daba socdo, Xabashi themselves ku dhex jiro meesha, dadkii laaye, maatidii wada dhameeye, haweenkii kufsaday, ciyaal iyo waayeelna haba sheegin, hantidiina boobay. Taas ha iska indhatirin.

 

Soomaali dagaalameyso waa mid la garay. Si walba ha isku laayaan, ha isku dilaan, at the end waa dad isku af, isir, dhaqan iyo diin wada wadaago, oo geed hoostiisa ku kala bixi karo haddee wax isku qabsadaan. Xabashi? No, no, no, no. Meel aan isku fahano ama iskugu imaano maleh. Waa cadowgii koowaad, labaad, sadexaad ee Soomaaliyeed. Taas ha isiloowsiin.

 

Soomaalis must unite in order to confront Xabashis, haddii kale ha iska iloowaan kuwa halgamaayaan, oo hala isku dhiibo Xabashi. Taas ma soconeyso, my friend.

 

Every occupied land, there were collaborators, daneystiyaal, calooshooda u shaqeystiyaal who worked with the occupiers. It is not wax cusub. Marka that does not absolutely justify because few sick men Xabashi daba naageys u ah, because of thse few men, one cannot say Soomaalis are "divided."

 

Most Soomaalis are united, and most Soomaalis see Xabashi as their enemy. Kii u istaagay, isku xilqaamay in order to liberate our land from Xabashis, haka soo horjeesan. The least you and I can do is anagoo waxba dhihin. Unjustified dacaayad Xabashada lee wax u taree, not mid dan Soomaaliyeed ugu jirto.

 

Do not justify what is happening today because the massacres that happened in early 1990s. The genocide that happened in early '90s. Just don't. Qalad qalad laguma saxo. If some clanists were mum then, don't be silent. Always xaqa u hiili, not xaqdaro. Soomaalina wey midowee hadduu Eebbo idmo, as long as caddaalad iyo xaq lagu socdo waala midoowaa.

[Fabregas]

@ME, waxaa la iskuma haysto! Tying Ethiopian withdrawal to Somalis making peace is a disastrous concept. Firstly, because Somalis could 15 years to make peace. Secondly, it justifies their intervention in Somalia. I don't disagree with you, Xiin and others reconciliation thingy. I was just want to expose those who are using reconcialition and peace to execute the wishes of the Ethiopian adminstration. They have a different agenda and it isn't purely based on making peace between Somalis.

[Fabregas]

quote:But now that that is the case dont we need to move on and who must then compromise more in your opinion.

 

Nope there's no compromise, even if there are only 10 of their soldiers in Muqdisho! You might call that silly conditions, but to some it's purely rational!

[me]

People please read what I wrote before replying. I could not be more clearer about how I came to my conclusions.

 

MMA - Most Somalis as you said don't want the Ethiopians there. I even believe that people that are TFG supporters don't want Ethiopians there. The question is not who wants or who doesn't want the Ehiopans troops in Somalia.

 

But how many Somalis are willing to take action? and why aren't they if they believe so strongly that the Ethios should be kicked out? do you see people sending weapons? sending money? go back to fight? how many Somalis do you see on the streets protesting? Do you want to tell me that the whole Somali naton is UNITED in their effort to kick the Ethiopians out of our land? or is there only one section of the Somali population that feels strongly about this issue?

 

Look I want to believe that too, but lets not close our eyes from the reality here. Only when we accept the reality can we change things. As long as we are deluding ourselves, there will be no change.

 

There are two questions here

 

1. HOW do we get the Ethiopians out of Somali soil?

2. HOW do we build a strong nation?

 

The Somali people are divided in their effort and the fact that you come to me with I have strong feelings about Laas Caanood points out the mistrust amongst the Somali people.

 

If I wanted to settle for Laas Caanood, we wouldn't be having this discussion. It's because I believe in Somalia that I am here discussing these issues with you.

 

I am discussing them with you not because I am sooooo I against the resistance but because I want them to win and for them to win, they have to change their tactics. And you guys need to be more critical if you want the resistance to win this war. I mean do we have parrots here or thinking men? This is war! The Ethio's are killing, raping,

destroying properties, turning allot of people into refugees. It's a serious matter folks, fist wavings and strong language will get you nowhere.

 

 

Justice maybe on your side today, but being just alone will not win a war.

 

At the end of the day there is no right, there is no wrong. There are only winners and loosers.

 

Do you want to win?

[me]

MMA - I do not want to give dacaayad to Xabashis or any stooge. What I am saying is it's time to go soul searching.

 

Time to go back to the drawing table and come up with a better plan. In order for Somalia to be a strong nation again.

 

I am saying that the resistance should not loose the battle for the hearts and minds of the Somali people. No one likes the TFG government but the resisance is winning by default now in the Somali public opinion.

 

If we want the resistance to win, we should work on peace and unity.

[Geel_jire]

^ I have a proposal a union-building exercise if you will. there was a period in our history were we were the most united most patriotic regardless of our internal problems the......... '77 war with Ethiopia

 

we were one people every death of a somali brother/sister affected all of us...... if somehow the resistance can be expanded to include somalis from every corner of the country and every single qabil....... so that the traitors who seek to divide us are deprived of excuses the families of the men who fight be taken care of......

 

the logic here being that men who fight side by side as brothers........ when they are done eradicating the xabash filth and their servants can sit together at the negotiation table with a great deal of respect for one another and compromise for the greater good.

 

this is an opportunity

[stoit]

GJ Goete

 

I am disappointed freind that firstly you say no to compromise and then go on to say that is rational. May be you want to take us along the path that led to this conclusion.

 

How you can say no to compromise for peace and a chance to return to a normal life for all of us somalis is truly mind boggling.

 

Do you not compromise wherever you are now ? You do. In fact you may even be compromising on some values that you may strongly believe in. Every transaction is a compromise and every relationship is another compromise. You let go of something in order to gain another probably more valuable to you at that time for whatever the reason. And that is a compromise.

 

If you are willing to live in a foreign land and compromise on your beliefs and way of life to mension just a few, wouldnt it be more profitable for you to compromise for issues that will determine life or death for many fellow somalis.

 

Northan ireland is peaceful now they would not have been had they not agreed to sit and talk would they now.

 

I dont know how any one can live among others in any society and not coompromise let alone a civilised one.

 

Geel jire

 

Isnt it nice. I mean to be able to actually plan towards a goal rather than merely shouting in oposition and getting worked up for nothing. You have a proposal for unity. "A union building exersise"

 

If we unite simply to get rid of the ethiopain ,what will then become of us, say, after we have achieved our goal. Remmember we were killing each other even before then and no government could be accepted. Are we then to go back to each killing the other and warlords reigning suppreme kindof situation. what plan have you got in place to avoid a repetition of such state.

 

I am afraid ME was right and so is lois lane ,we need to go soul serching first. We need to find our lost souls before resisting or accepting any kind of rule. We need to forgive each other and move on and first and foremost we need to STOP USING VIOLENCE as in now.

 

We need to agree and accept that governments are instituted among men for a reason and one of those reasons is to arbitrate disputes and punish the law breakers. Governments have inbuilt systems where by people on whose mandate they operate can get the chance to either do away with them and put others in their place or change the way it functions as and when they see fit.

 

Since we have already a government and it took along time to make it is in our advantage not t o seek to topple it by force and start all over again but to use it and work through it for our common good.

 

By oposing this government violently rebels are not only perpetrating illegal acts ,they are also disabbling it and the rest of us.

 

Since you wanted excersise try this for an excersise. A though experiment.

 

A quick look at some of the factors that stand between us and peace and prosperity will reveal the rebels to be one of them.

 

Now as a thought experiment, take them out of the equation altogether and notice how there wouldnt have been ethiopian in the first place , how we would have had peace now for several years ,how many of those lives lost senselessly would not have been so ,how the government would not have been wasting money, effort and time on constantly defending itself.

 

In all honestly wouldnt we all have been better off without this rebellion. In my opinion they are to blame for most of our problems because the government had its mandate through an agreed upon proceedure and was thus legitimacy to govern.

 

Maybe its time to go back to the drawing board and this time include all the factors at play in this dangerous dance of life and death, for a lasting peace.

 

But first let us all agree that he who cannot come to the table and insists on using violence is the odd one out.

[Geel_jire]

^ while reading through your post at first I was hopeful ...... actual show of concern for the common somali .... I was asking myself when is he going to start to justify the presence of tigre soldiers and rationalize what A/Y has done :confused: and indeed you did not disappoint

 

 

Originally posted by Aduun iyo aakhiro:

 

Now as a thought experiment, take them out of the equation altogether and notice

how there wouldnt have been ethiopian in the first place

, how we would have had peace now for several years ,how many of those lives lost senselessly would not have been so ,how the government would not have been wasting money, effort and time on constantly defending itself.

while I acknowledge that we were having problems long before the xabash filth came..... Im all for any political solution or negotiation....... but the big elephant in the room is impossible to ignore no matter how much you gloss over it........absolutely nothing you say can justify their presence or the support of their cheerleaders.

 

you hide behind 'somali unity'....... and still you apoligise for,make excuses and constantly whine 'we need our xabash masters' .....

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by me:

I do not trust Ethiopians and their word. I do no believe that they will leave in 24 hours. I do not believe they will ever leave unless they are kicked out. But for them to be kicked out we should be united and fist-wavings and screaming whatever slogans you guys have today won't make them leave or change one bit of the reality on the ground in Somalia today.

I think you're confused 'cause you contradict yourself. You say Ethiopia should be kicked out of Somalia forcibly because they won't leave voluntarily. I agree with you completely. Most Somalis share the same view. The overwhelming majority of SOLers are of that view too. You even went as far as to suggest TFG supporters themselves don't want Ethiopian troops massacring Somalis in Somalia. So, there's unanimity of views that want Ethiopia out of Somalia and firm majority of views that want to forcibly evict Ethiopia out of Somalia. What, then, is there to unite about? It seems just about everyone wants to fight Ethiopians occupying our country.

 

I don't know about you but I think Somalis are more united today than they've been in decades. Our problem is not for want of unity but harnessing and capitalizing on the unprecedented outpouring of unity and solidarity. This is more of an issue of political organization, leadership, communication, mass mobilization etc... not lack of unity.

 

 

First tell me and fellow Somalis why we should support you in your case. Why is it in our interest to support you?

I'm just concerned Somali citizen. I'm neither speaker of Al-Shabaab nor any other recognized group fighting Ethiopian occupation. So, you'll have to clarify what you mean by "we" and "you." Secondly, as someone who made the defense of Somaliweyn his main stock and trade, I'm quite taken back by the equanimity with which you asked the question above... it must be said that it is in sharp contrast with the alacrity with which you defended Somaliweyn against the detested and much loathed "secessionists." I mean, YOUR country is occupied and the occupying power is reeking havoc, creating what has been called "Africa's worst humanitarian disaster." And yet you're nonchalant in the face of what is arguably the greatest affront against everything you hold dear... mind you, in the meantime you pull all stops in repudiating secessionists. You got some explaining to do sxb... 'cause you can't be pro-united Somalia/somaliweyn and be indifferent towards savage invasion and all-out attack against united Somalia.

 

 

Where is their JUSTICE?

Ask the TFG and their supporters. The very people who committed egregious injustices in the past are part and parcel of the TFG.

 

 

Where was their JUSTICE when they were being murdered in the streets of MUQDISHO in the 90's?

Sxb, the above is microcosm of what is wrong with Somalis. You should actually listen to what I say before you formulate a response. I clearly said I want justices for all that has transpired in the past 20 years. What do you think I was talking about?

 

 

So understand SOMALIA is bigger then MUQDISHO. Every faction is looking out for nr.1 so come up with a message that appeals to all.

You know that aint totally true. Muqodisho is the most important city in all of Somalia. He who rules it holds great sway in Somali politics. Its demise foreshadowed our nightmare. The city is both our Guernica and Stalingrad rolled into one. If it falls into Ethiopian hands, you can kiss goodbye to united Somalia. On the bright side, at least you'll get a rest from your 24/7 advocacy for united Somalia.

 

 

The 6 months of heaven comment is a classic Socodbadne. Heaven kulaha? Heaven for who?

 

Heaven for who? For the 6000+ Somalis who are dead and not with us anymore. For the 10s of thousands of Somalis who are maimed, disfigured and psychologically scarred for life. For the close to a million Somalis who are made refugees in their own country barely surviving on scant handouts. For all those Somalis who are victims of "Africa's worst humanitarian disaster."

 

 

Is it my capital when I can't live there?

 

I can't live there either but what's that got to do with opposing Ethiopian army committing war crimes there?

 

 

 

Talk to me in a language I can understand, why are my properties still occupied? Why hasn’t anyone addressed that issue for the past 17 years? Talk to people in a language they can all understand.

 

lol.. are you seriously asking me that question? Remember, I'm the guy who says to hell with the never ending "peace" conferences that never address the root causes of our civil war. That's why I say any future attempts at creating lasting peace should be centered on justice. Justice means holding men and women accountable for their actions. Justice means returning what was stolen from others. Justice means no more warlords for "president" or "police chief".

 

 

We do not have to go to Qaahira, Khartuum, AdisAbaba, Nayroobi, Rome, Washington iyo London. We don’t need to stay in fancy hotels for months. We don’t need foreigners to mediate or even observe. If we want peace we know how to find each other.

 

Absolutely. The so-called Somali leaders in every few years or so go to get watered like some Geel in some foreign city. We should make break with the past. Somalis can create lasting peace among themselves without being dictated to by 10s of thousands of foreign army in their own country.

[Suldaanka]

^^

You forgot, "Mr. Me" is a fella Hargeisaawi (if we take his word for it)... He is one of those that are really annoyed by Hargeisa's successes.

 

But what is news here is "Aduun iyo Aakhiro", has finally shown his true colours... not only is he making excuses for the occupying forces but he also accuses the freedom fighters of being anti-government criminals. Talk about adding insult to injury!!

 

 

Dhuumasho dhabarku muuqdo waa dhib iyo hadimo.

 

 

you hide behind 'somali unity'

....... and still you apoligise for,make excuses and constantly whine 'we need our xabash masters' ....

 

I think that sums it up.

[stoit]

Geel jire

 

I have not said we need ethiopian troops and i was saddened when they had to come in for everybody was against them including me. I am however not accepting that their withdrawal must be a prerequisite for an initiation of peace talks.

 

And i opose vehemently all the atrocities commited in somalia by the TGF and their ethiopian masters just as vigorously as i am oposing any violent rebelion. At the end of the day they are all doing a disservice to us somalis.

 

But unless you are willing to accept that order means doing things in an agreed upon way and that tried and tested all around the world and over time is the formula that any citizen who uses force is tresspassing and that the government is the only entity that has authority to do that you will be the dictator and not the government.

 

You can argue as much as you like bro and you may even base you arguments on emotions but unless the rebels stop using violence the naked truth is that the entire world is going to side with the government and they will lose popular support if not immediately then over time.

 

I base my arguements on the premise that greater good for the greater number of people is the target and that planning and willingness to change position to meet others is not only a somali tradition it is also most times the only way forward in solving disputes of this magnitude and complication.

 

And i repeat that i believe that unity is the way forward and reconciliation and compromise is a viable way to unity and the best way to proceed on our way back to being a nation again.

 

So as to stop ourselves moving in circles would you agree that the use of violence has to stop from all entities whether individuals or organisations regardless of wether it is actions to an end or reactions as in revenge or something.

 

From such a ceasefire may dawn a new order and finally we may then break away from this childish never ending tit for tat that has reduced us all to beasts and our country to ruins.

[stoit]

suldaanka sxb

 

I propose a way forward and in doing so i take you on a tour around the world so you may witness how things are done elsewhere in order that we may learn and emulate that which is of benefit to us.

 

If you have not already you will soon find that things have a certain way that they can get done. was it francis bacon that said nature in order to be commanded must first be obeyed.

 

You can throw stones and sticks for over sixty years in return for bullets that will kill us and our children and be emotional about it, like it is in the middle east or you can set emotions aside and come to the table in order that we may all put our points across and from that concoction a new mixture come out that is agreeable to all. We are all tired freind and some of us cant stand this madness anymore we want to go back home educate our children, rebuild our nation and live among those we call family, freind and country men and women.

 

The choise is yours.

 

If you expected me to side with you simply because like a magitian you draw from a hat causes and everybody is supposed to follow like

zombies without why's and how's you are reckoning blindly. You ought to look around sxb, things arent what they used to be and you wont get allegiance by simply waving this magic wand anymore.

[Suldaanka]

^ Two questions:

 

1. Is the TFG a government or is it a warlord faction installed by a foreign occupational force?

 

2. Why do you think the freedom fighters should lay down their arms and surrender?

[stoit]

Originally posted by Suldaanka:

^ Two questions:

 

1. Is the TFG a government or is it a warlord faction installed by a foreign occupational force?

 

2. Why do you think the freedom fighters should lay down their arms and surrender?

The TGF is as its name says a TRASITIONAL FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. It is not a government but a means to get us to a proper government and as regards the second question maybe if you defined warlordism first.

 

This TGF whatever it may mean to you was agreed upon at the time of its inception by everybody and we even agreed on how best to share power and equitable representation that mimicked our natural disposition to order and so we intalled a system called 4.5 .Not only did we all agree the whole world witnessed it and cheered us on.

 

You can help correct me if i am mistaken.

 

Now why dont you answer my question first before posing yours.

 

This the question repeated for you.

 

So as to stop ourselves moving in circles would you agree that the use of violence has to stop from all entities whether individuals or organisations regardless of wether it is actions to an end or reactions as in revenge or something.

 

I have to go for now sxb but i will try and answer as honestly as i can your questions next time i log on and i am hoping we can agree on some things atleast.