closing-ranks mentality

[Malika]

Lets give the sister the benefit of the doubt,as she has tried to explain clearly her aim wasnt not to compare the Jews and the Somali land cause of secession as the same.As I understood she meant,the strategies used by the Jews after the Holocaust of victimazation to gain support world wide for their cause in Israel,compesation from America,Europe for the crimes committed against them.

 

As an opportunity has risen for me to ask my brothers and sisters for some clearance on the matter of the purposes of the secessionist movement in Somaliland.

 

I am still not clear of the somaliland secessionist movement,I know many secessions can and are justified as ways of escaping oppression,achieving freedom and self-goverment. However, the key problem with the principle of self-determination taking the form of secession as a means of eliminating national and ethnic conflict is that it begs four questions: who are the people; what is the relevant territorial unit in which they should exercise self-determination; what constitute a majority; does secession produce a domino effect in which minorities within seceding territories will seek self-determination for themselves?In this case I am talking about the people of Sool,Sanaag and ****, where do they fit in this secessionist movement?

[RedSea]

lol@scaping oppression.

 

that is pretty sad indeed, and quite honestly that is not the case. No it's not because we 'fear' anything, we have no reason to be. to find your answer you can read many many previous posts which had been discused here and else where.

 

 

1. territorial integrity which is claimed by Somaliland are the territories which were marked by the british that joined the South (ex. Italian colonised territory).

 

2. The people aren't neccesarily from one tribe( though many think that SL consists only 1 qabiil) eventhough the President himself isn't from the majority tribe there.

 

3. There are two different cases in Somaliland as I understand for the terms majority and minority.

 

a. majority- can be define in SL as qabiil majoriy who mostly inhabit the areas known as Somaliland today.

 

or it can be regarded as the 'will of the majority' defing the voices of those who want seccession vs. those who don't.

 

b. As for 'minority'. It can also be being a minority, because one belongs into smaller qabiil or it can be a role which points out that one is outnumbered as far their voice against the seccesion..

 

Yes it's true the majority of rer sool are against the secesion of somaliland and most parts of Sanaag as well, however these areas are outnumbered by those who are for the seccesion in other areas of somaliland. Thus if referendum was taken in the areas which is claimed by Somaliland, the outcome would be a 'yes' vote for seccesion more than likely.

 

Ps. as far as domination, reer sool made up the majority in the Somaliland parliament in the Igal admin as far as single clan family was concern.

 

One thing somaliland has done suprisingly is being very flexible to all clans, and today there are representives for each region that is willing to being part of somalilnd or otherwise.

[Liibaan]

When in 1991, the SNM took control of the North of what is known today as Somaliland.

In 1991 snm took control of northwest regions, after the government forces left north, when the central government in Mogadishu was overthrown

 

In 1989 and 1990 north Somalia was under the full control of Siyad regime, there was no fighting or war, north Somalia was calm and peaceful

 

For instances, the areas such as Awdal, Sanaag, and Sool. These areas are mostly inhabited by tribes other than the 'majority' tribe in Somaliland, which the SNM consisted mostly of.

The period between 1991 and 1997 there was civil war between the snm sub-clans tribes, therefore Sool and Sanaag were not under snm militia

 

 

Sool Sanaag and Cayn were never under the control of snm faction

 

Only in 2002 that Riyaale militia invaded Sool and occupied Adhicadeeye

 

If people of Sool Sanaag and Cayn are not yet part of so-called Somaliland, they can’t minority in the clan-state of Somaliland

 

The SNM did commit crimes against these people, but however on very low scale, at least much less than was expected.

Do you think that SNM should have committed more crimes against other tribes? What do mean much less than was expected?

 

SNM fans can downplay the crimes of snm, however SNM militia particularly under the leadership of Siilaanyo did committed major and countless crimes against the people of Awdal, sool sanaag and Cayn

 

SNM Militia waxaa caada u aheed inay xasuuq u geesatu dadka shacabka ee reer awdal, sool, sanaag cayn, ayada oo ku adacoonasa inay ka aar goosanasu dowlada

 

 

SNM sects of Col. Ahmed Mire in Sool and Sanaag fronts killed some people who were previously accused of assisting the Barre campaign

False, you can make exuses for snm

SNM killed many innocent people including children, elders, women because of their qabiil affiliation

 

Boqolaalkii xasuuq ee snm u geesatay dadka Awdal Sool Sanaag iyo Cayn, Waxaa kimid ahaa dhacdadan;

 

Waxaa jirtay in maalin ciida in snm malitia eey kudishay magaalada Xudun dad kabadan 80 oo salad ciida u taagan oo ee kuu jiraan ciroole iyo caruur, dumar iyo rag

 

however not large scale as what went in Southern Somalia.

What took place was similar in nature, the differences were the circumstances

 

 

1) The northern Civil war took place when the government was still in power, the people from non-snm tribes left Hergeysa without being concerned about snm baclash

 

. While in Mogadishu there was no government to facilitate the exodus of people from non-usc tribes to leave Mogadishu

 

2) Comparing to Mogadishu there was very small communities from non-snm tribes in Hargeysa, while in Mogadishu there were large and established communities from non-usc tribes.

 

 

3) When SNM took control over Hergeysa in 1991, there was few people from non-snm tribes, while in Mogadishu when USC took over the city, there millions of somali people from non-usc tribes in Mogadishu, somali people who left Hargeysa were also in Mogadishu "Xabadikeentay baa loo bixiyey", there was also large foreign communities like Yemenis, indians in Mogadishu

 

Burco conference to establish what is known as Somaliland today. Those who attended hailed from all major/minor tribes of the North, almost no one was left out of that burco conference.

If some individuals from SSC attended those conferences, well they are calooshoooda u shaqeestayaal since the majority of from SSC are against the secession

 

Just like you lebelled Kallun, Sifir, Buubaa, many MPs from Northwest as calooshooda u shaqeestayaal for attending Somali reconciliation and peace conferences in Djibouti and Kenya

 

No it's not because we 'fear' anything, we have no reason to be.

If it’s not fear then why you guys oppose to join somali people? don't tell because they were colonized by Italians or because of Kacaan regime

 

 

territorial integrity which is claimed by Somaliland are the territories which were marked by the british that joined the South (ex. Italian colonised territory).

The clan faction of SNM has no right to claim all the territories of former British Somaliland

 

People from SSC regions fought more than 60 years against British imperialists and more than one third of people sacrificed their lives to liberate their land over invaders and to eliminate the unjust fake border that British created to divide families, brothers, sisters, parents and their children, and dad walaala ah oo ah ul iyo diirkeed

 

 

 

 

Somalia is commited to to preserve its unity, sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of Somalia.

 

The international community that includes most of the countries, All the international bodies like UN, Arab league, Organization of Islammic Conference, African Union, IGAD are as well committed to preserve the sovereignty, unity, independence, political independence and the territorial integrity of somalia

 

 

UN The Security Council…reaffirms its commitment to a comprehensive and lasting settlement of the situation in Somalia and reaffirms its respect for the sovereignty, territorial integrity, political independence and unity of the country, consistent with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

 

OIC – Organization of Islamic Conference

 

1. Reaffirms its commitment to the restoration and preservation of the unity, sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of Somalia.

 

Arab League

 

1.7 - Reaffirming the unity and sovereignty of the sisterly Republic of Somalia, and supporting the efforts aimed at achieving national conciliation, peace and stability in this country.

 

 

though many think that SL consists only 1 qabiil

Secession is the Brain child of snm, and snm unitarily declared so-called Somaliland

 

Proverb"Three things cannot long be hidden the sun, the moon, and the truth."

 

 

. majority- can be define in SL as qabiil majoriy who mostly inhabit the areas known as Somaliland today.

 

or it can be regarded as the 'will of the majority' defing the voices of those who want seccession vs. those who don't.

 

b. As for 'minority'. It can also be being a minority, because one belongs into smaller qabiil or it can be a role which points out that one is outnumbered as far their voice against the seccesion..

Waxaad leedahay qabiildada qaar baa ah small or minority, sheekadii qabiilkeyga ayaa kaa badan ayaad lasoo shirtagtay

 

 

Yes it's true the majority of rer sool are against the secesion of somaliland and most parts of Sanaag as well, however these areas are outnumbered by those who are for the seccesion in other areas of somaliland. Thus if referendum was taken in the areas which is claimed by Somaliland, the outcome would be a 'yes' vote for seccesion more than likely.

How about this

 

Yes it's true the majority of reer woqooyi Galbeed are against the unity of Somalia, however these areas are outnumbered by those who are for the unity in all other regions of Somalia. Thus if referendum was taken in the 18 regions of Somalia, the outcome would in a landslide majority Yes for unity of Somalia for sure

 

 

 

 

 

people of SSC as well have the right to decide their destiny, and be part of Somalia as they choose, no one can force them to join clan feithdom

 

 

Ps. as far as domination, reer sool made up the majority in the Somaliland parliament in the Igal admin as far as single clan family was concern.

Haduu qofku been sheegayo, been run u eeg waa inoo sheegaa si loo rumeestu

 

Provide the list of MPs to prove your baseless claims that reer sool made up the majority of So-called Somaliland parliament in Igal adm!

 

Its undisputable fact, that Somaliland is dominated by snm clan

 

One thing somaliland has done suprisingly is being very flexible to all clans, and today there are representives for each region that is willing to being part of somalilnd or otherwise.

Only in the minds of snm fans,

 

so-called Somaliland waging aggressive wars against the people of Sool sanaag and Cayn, in Adhicadeeye and more recently Dhahar

 

 

There are representatives of woqooyi galbeed in somali government and parliament

[RedSea]

^lol...I know you would show up. But honestly speaking, I cannot read fine prints, shorten up your writings or highlight it for me. I cannot read what the heck you just scrippled above.

 

I would like to know what the Islamic conference, the site isnt' functioning for me, but whatever they have said, I would like to know what they think of your beloved Xabashi driven TFG.

 

There is something that people always get wrong, which is 'the SNM clan'.

 

did you not know that such clan which you speak is equivalant to the great clan which you hail from, the ones that settle in Somali galbeed, East, south, did you not know that?

 

So when I say single clan family, I am speaking of sub clans that make up greater clan known.

 

For example the clan tha settles mostly in Sool is single clan family, it's the equivalant of single clan families that reside in either East or West of Burco.

 

Secondly, yes indeed somaliland has done a great job in making sure that peace prevails in Somaliland.

 

You brought up some examples of 'wars' taken place in areas like sool and most recently sanaag. However those cannot be considered large scale wars, as they didn't cause any displacements, however some troops battled for few hours and then it came into a hault. It cannot be considered as major.

 

In addition, you said there was no war in the North from 1989-90?!

 

^^^ We were in refugee camps, this was the peak of the violence in the North, by this time, things were utterly out of control. You seriously dont' have a clue of what you write.

 

 

As for referendum, it would only be taken from the areas that are seceeding aka Ex-British Somaliland.

 

To give you good example, let me take Somali galbeed as an example. As you probably know there is major clan that resides in somali galbeed and there are also many other 'small' tribes that reside there as well.

 

The region itself is named after the majority tribe.

 

that being said, let us say that this area were to be freed from Ethiopian occupation and after they are freed they were given a choice of whether or not they would want to join somalia or be an independent nation that operates under its own flag, admin etc....

 

There would perhaps be some clan forexamples those reside in Gaashamo, Maholin, some parts of Aware, Rabasso, Xarshin etc....that would want to join Somaliland, because their kinsmen reside there, however they would outnumbered by the majority tribe' decision whatever it might be.

 

You cannot say, that people that reside in Gaashamo are other areas aka reer hebel which relates to the clan in Somaliland can simply say no we no longer want to be part of O-gedenia, but rather part of Somaliland. It cannot happen that way.

 

...thus if referedum would be taken, it would exclude every other region except the region which it concerns the most.

 

....get it....that is how the world operates.

 

 

 

I still cannot understand how one can be pro somaliwayne, yet consider the occupiers of somali galbeed as an 'ally'. Yes I am bringing this up.

[Che -Guevara]

b. As for 'minority'. It can also be being a minority, because one belongs into smaller qabiil or it can be a role which points out that one is outnumbered as far their voice against the seccesion..

 

Yes it's true the majority of rer sool are against the secesion of somaliland and most parts of Sanaag as well, however these areas are outnumbered by those who are for the seccesion in other areas of somaliland. Thus if referendum was taken in the areas which is claimed by Somaliland, the outcome would be a 'yes' vote for seccesion more than likely

Riyo ku jidhaa. Every Somali tribe will decide their own faith,but nice try.

[RedSea]

Maxaad ka hadlaysaa?

 

'every somali tribe will decide their own fate'? according to who to che or to the world standards....we need to seperate personal opinions which are usually emotionally charged like the one above from the reality on the ground.

 

The world rotates in one way, it may not be to your favor, but hey tough luck....heck reer Muqdisho no longer wake up to the Atham in most parts due to what some here like G. Canood call a government.

[Che -Guevara]

the reality on the ground

Whose reality are we talking?...LooooooooL

 

Bacadacas' phantom one, or the fact reer Sool and Sanaag don't share this secession dream. And if it is world standard that you hope would win Sool and Sanaag, then Iam afraid the world will tell you to sit with the south. Somaliland's International letimagacy would only come through Mogadisho, and no sane Somali leader or for matter insane one would agree to dismembarement.

You shoud choose to declare independence without Somalia's blessing, then Sool and Sanaag will remain in Somali hands which is the case now anyway.

[roobleh]

Stealth,

 

I am sure that you've more patience than I have while you trying to shed light on the issue of secesion to 'some' of the people from the camp of Nolanders. I said 'some' cuz many of the knowledgeable Nolanders know when to defend a point and when to abandon it.

 

Che and caano, tell me your opinion about the following quote: "You cannot say, that people that reside in Gaashamo are other areas aka reer hebel which relates to the clan in Somaliland can simply say no we no longer want to be part of O-gedenia, but rather part of Somaliland. It cannot happen that way." by Stealth.

 

I think cambaro is right to compare to some extent the way Somalilanders and Jews people organise their communities and advocate issues that help their countries while residing overseas.

 

Somalilanders need to learn more from the Jews people if we want to speed up our political and economical success and to overcome the Arab's hindrance and Africa's indifference.

 

By the way, with their shortcomings, Jews are even mentioned in the Quran as the'chosen' people by Allah. So there is nothing wrong with being a Jew. Like any other community, they have some who are good and some who are bad. But to some who failed their communities will continue to smear and blame others for the reason of their failures.

 

ps. why some have to lie about the civil war and say that Hargeisa and Burco were peaceful during the late 80s. Don't you know what other people will think about you? a lier!

[RedSea]

mr. che ,

 

dhibaatada ku haysataa waxay tahay, wax ala waxaaad ka hadlaysid garanmaysid, anaga laftayadu garan mayno jiho aad ku socoto iyo meel aad kasocoto.

 

As soon as you sit in front of the PC, you should have an objective of what exactly you are going to write about, and before you write you should have a good idea at least for what the purpose you are casting your opinion.

 

Judging based on that, I cannot even give you the slightest point for anything or any point that you have raised, you simply lack the valuable tools to engage anyone regarding anything about somaliland over the sool and sanaag issue. You are simply going with what you heard from folks like garaad canood, a man who has no principles whatsoever, rather a man who is against everything of somaliland. He simply cries when he hears about somaliland and would go banana if he ever witnesses a dude from burco in Sool, but considers the Ethiopian invading forces of much of somalia as 'a friend' an 'assistant' to the national government. You being on the same side of the fense with these creatues is utterly embrassing as well as it's makes you look like a man who has no ground to stand on. So I advice you to come up wiht your OWN LINES to preach, and don't be like many others, a bench warmer.

 

 

Yes, Somaliland case is NOT about qabiil. Some people like G.canood still cry about SNM which doesnt' even exist, he actually believes that snm is still functional and is here to cause harm to his home state, sool.

 

How redicolous can those ideas be my friend.

 

In the eyes of some folks here, which quiete sadly you seem to have joined, somaliland is nothing but clan state which is hellbent on destroying, creating hate and advancing immoral idealogies towards other regions, let me ask you since you are tireless and pointless arguing without knowledge or shall I say diving everything regarding somaliland head first, do you believe such? do you believe that somaliland is nothing but qabiil fiefdom created out of hatred etc....like many others do, do you people that elections, free ones they are, the protection of minority rights most parts, the peace and tranquilty that has been taken place in somaliland for last decade plus can simply be dismissed so easily without a thought....some actually consider somaliland as the seccesionist mafia or gang....that is quite sad way to refer to the 'island of stability in the choatic horn' as even gaalos refered to it as.

 

Don't be misled to believe or don't made to sing the same lyrics and tunes as those somaliland haters whom consider xabashis as their saviors while considering somaliland as 'thug movement'.

 

Everyone is welcome to critize the SL admin, however no one can simply dismiss the job well done in Somaliland....and definately you shouldn't.

 

 

Just read this article below of how Somaliland has housed 40,000 'refugees' more so than any other 'somalijecel' region....just read yourself.

 

 

somalis who have fled in Muqdisho will not be regarded as refugees and therefore given any aid, because that would mean Somaliland would have be considered as seperate country of its own....40,000 are now being sheltered, given food, welcomed by somalilanders.

 

I think credit should be given where its due at times, instead of blidly, arrogantly arguing or selling yourself out for the purpose of perhaps being given little pat on the shoulder by some. Let us cut the crap here.

[Che -Guevara]

mr. che ,

 

dhibaatada ku haysataa waxay tahay, wax ala waxaaad ka hadlaysid garanmaysid, anaga laftayadu garan mayno jiho aad ku socoto iyo meel aad kasocoto.

 

As soon as you sit in front of the PC, you should have an objective of what exactly you are going to write about, and before you write you should have a good idea at least for what the purpose you are casting your opinion.

 

Judging based on that, I cannot even give you the slightest point for anything or any point that you have raised, you simply lack the valuable tools to engage anyone regarding anything about somaliland over the sool and sanaag issue. You are simply going with what you heard from folks like garaad canood, a man who has no principles whatsoever, rather a man who is against everything of somaliland. He simply cries when he hears about somaliland and would go banana if he ever witnesses a dude from burco in Sool, but considers the Ethiopian invading forces of much of somalia as 'a friend' an 'assistant' to the national government. You being on the same side of the fense with these creatues is utterly embrassing as well as it's makes you look like a man who has no ground to stand on. So I advice you to come up wiht your OWN LINES to preach, and don't be like many others, a bench warmer.

You are treading on a thin line here. If you don't agree or appreciate anything that any member of this site has to say, all you have to do is abstain from the discussion. You can opt to stay out rather than getting personal with people. That diminishes the whole discussion, and quite frankly doesn't say a hell lot about you either.

 

 

Yes, Somaliland case is NOT about qabiil. Some people like G.canood still cry about SNM which doesnt' even exist, he actually believes that snm is still functional and is here to cause harm to his home state, sool.

That's your opinion, not actual fact. Somalia is nation torn apart by Qabiil based rebel movements. SNM was sole of product of one disfranchised Somali tribe. To argue otherwise is quite ridiculous. The fall of Barre was culminated with the rise of Qabiil lands not by the return of English and Italian protectrates.

 

 

In the eyes of some folks here, which quiete sadly you seem to have joined, somaliland is nothing but clan state which is hellbent on destroying, creating hate and advancing immoral idealogies towards other regions, let me ask you since you are tireless and pointless arguing without knowledge or shall I say diving everything regarding somaliland head first, do you believe such? do you believe that somaliland is nothing but qabiil fiefdom created out of hatred etc....like many others do, do you people that elections, free ones they are, the protection of minority rights most parts, the peace and tranquilty that has been taken place in somaliland for last decade plus can simply be dismissed so easily without a thought....some actually consider somaliland as the seccesionist mafia or gang....that is quite sad way to refer to the 'island of stability in the choatic horn' as even gaalos refered to it as.

where I have actually lambasted Somaliland or deny it of its accomplishments. You simply seem to be expressing what you suspect others to be thinking of Somaliland.

 

Now pay attention for the last time, Iam happy for everything Somaliland has achieved. What i disagree is the notion of dismissing the rights of SSC residents just cuz your lot for secession constitute the "majority".

 

 

Everyone is welcome to critize the SL admin, however no one can simply dismiss the job well done in Somaliland....and definately you shouldn't

And where did I do exactly. I don't like the fact somebody telling Buhoodle where half of my family is from and majority of whose residents are for Somalia is another country. They have the absolute right to decide their future.

[me]

I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh lord

Ive been waiting for this moment, all my life, oh lord

Can you feel it coming in the air tonight, oh lord, oh lord

[me]

Labadayda taano.

 

Kow taano: All Somali groups/factions/clans/regions share the closing ranks mentality. Its one of those characteristics that unite us. Its a part of our Somalinimo.

 

Lamma taano: Eedo was too generous when she compared the secessionist 'unity' with to the jews. If you want to know what I am talking about ask the people of East and West Burco. Or better yet ask the folks that live from Kalabaydh ilaa Boorame - Saylac, the folks that would rather join jabuuti then the secessionists.

[me]

Labadayda taano.

 

Kow taano: All Somali groups/factions/clans/regions share the closing ranks mentality. Its one of those characteristics that unite us. Its a part of our Somalinimo.

 

Lamma taano: Eedo was too generous when she compared the secessionist 'unity' with to the jews. If you want to know what I am talking about ask the people of East and West Burco. Or better yet ask the folks that live from Kalabaydh ilaa Boorame - Saylac, the folks that would rather join jabuuti then the secessionists.

[SomaliThinker]

Me, again with opinions instead of facts join djubuti lool what a mind you got lool.

[SomaliThinker]

Me, again with opinions instead of facts join djubuti lool what a mind you got lool. That makes no sense when you say they dont want Somaliland bet yet want to separate and join djubuti lool woow.