Self hating dabdhlf

[NGONGE]

I am staying up late.

[Castro]

^^^^ I've lost interest. Besides, there's nothing to disagree on here. I agree with you that SL is different from PL. But I will add that both suck and today, one sucks more than the other. And their brother in the south sucks the most.

[RedSea]

Somaliland is missing one piece from being full blown self dependant nation. That piece is leadership.

 

With good leaders, comes reliable government that invests back every shilling back into the country. Somaliland has more than enough resources to build better health instutions, social programs. To improve its economy, discipline its police force and better train and equip its defense forces. I believe that is just what is missing from the puzzle.

 

The cities of Hargeysa, Burco were destroyed almost entirely, when people returned from the refugee camps, they managed to rebuilt both cities almost entirely within a period of 5 years. With that type of hardwork, dedication and resiliance; anything is possible.

 

 

PPL here put so much emphasis on recogntion. They argue as though having a UN seat will result in putting bread on the table. If you look at the whole AFrican continent,as well as many Asian , South American countries who hold membership in the UN but at the same time struggle to feed their population. Some are downright war zones, some are choatic, plagued by diseases and poverty, case in point, Somalia.

 

I personally believe if somaliland can manage to have a good leadership that can give its citizens healthy, happy and productive life, then recognition can be absent as much as it like. At the end of the day, its' about the people, if the people are happy, the nation is striving and firing from all cyclinders then having a seat in the UN general assembly doesnt mean a taboo.

 

Folks argue constantly that somaliland's dream can't be attained. That somalilanders are delusional brainwashed lads.

 

well I wonder what does it take to being realist?

 

-Mostly, they argue somaliland having no recognition= dulision, its people are dreamers.

 

Yet they fail to look at many examples of nations who have recognition yet struggle to acquiring the basic necesaties in life.

[RedSea]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

 

Fact4—Contrary to your assertion, SL is not treated as a sovereign state (name one country…and please don’t hazard to cite Ethiopia’s envoy in Hargeysa for Ethiopia’s relationship with SL in particular and with Somalia in general is known).

The UN. They deal directly with Somaliland. They dont' go through the TFG.

[RedSea]

Originally posted by Ace of Spadez:

NGONGE, I think you're being too generous for assuming the likes of XiinFiniin can see the obviousness of the situation at hand. Maybe its because you are an arab, but for the rest of us Somalis, Nin ay meeli u caddahay meeli ka madow. You only come across as an insane person trying to fill up a vessel that has a hole at the bottom.

 

For starters XiinFiniin can't tell reality from his preceptions on how things ought to be. Case in point

"What SL wants or desires which is to secede does not change the reality on that ground that SL is a part of Somalia." He fails to understand, the real reality on the ground is Somaliland a) is not a secessionist state, and b) it is in fact a defacto sovereign state. On the ground that's the reality. The fact that Republic of Somaliland is still part of the failed state of Somalia on paper as it were, since there is no dejure recognition does not negate the fact Somaliland behaves and functions as a sovereign state in its six regional capitals. That is the reality on the ground, the physical, tangible, substantive reality that XiinFiniin cannot grasp for whatever reason.

 

Second, only XiinFiniin and people who cannot see beyond what they want to see, cannot fathom the grand canyon size difference from Somaliland and the substates of Somalia Proper, be it Hiiraanland or Puntland. The very premise these political entities exist, are TEMPORARY. In their inherent design, they are to be "KU MEEL GAADH" ie, transitionary. If as we would all like, as Somalis and good neighbours, and Somalia Proper was to reconstitute its soveriegnty and wrestle it away from Ethiopia's clutches, all of these substates will dissapear. It is not because the people of these substates are incapable, its because of the nature of the states. They were to be a form of organization while the "Qaran" is put back together. Once the said "Qaran" is reconstituted, they have served their purpose and are no longer relavent. Somaliland's sovereignty on the other hand is permanent, whether dejure recognition is granted or not, but the premise is a permanent solution. That is why, we the citizens of Somaliland are more concerned with the SYSTEM, rather than the PERSON leading the massess. This is what NGONGE is talking about when he says, Somaliland albeit slowly, is going from strength to strenght, as it builds up its institutions and continues on its NATION BUILDING. There is no nation building going on in Somalia Proper, whether you call it puntland or gedoland or bayland. If you took the blinkers off XiinFiniin, maybe it is the idea that Somaliland is a VIABLE PERMANENT SOLUTION that is bringing in those in the eastern regions that like any calculated human being want a way out of this mess and this failed status, failed union, failed hopes and dreams. Just maybe, people are evolving to be less clanish in nature, and more about their interests, but I wont expect you to understand. You always see things from a tribal prism. Even the news of the defection of soldeirs who hail from Garowe, to Somaliland wont change your views. You only see things as they are, and there is no other alternative answer. Puntland crumbling under its own weight because its very nature was temporary and everything is about the immediate future, and who is going to lead, and who is going to profit while it still exists, doesn't even register with you.

 

NGONGE, be weary those that like to change the debate when the original debate has been quashed. The issue was about Awdal, and I'm sure you put that issue to rest. Now we have, another argument all together, and how Somaliland will not, shall not, ought not dare look after its interest...

Beautifully written saaxib.

[Faarax-Brawn]

Does this piece sum up all of SL's qwest to be independent?

-------------------------------------------------

 

Today, many people including persuaded Somalis try to put the Somali history into their own tribal desire. Many of such individuals are optimistic to eliminate the history of Somaliland and 26th June 1960 event.

 

They, usually, misuse the poems and songs of Somaliland´s Independence Day like poem of Abdullah Sultan Timacadded (Kana Siib Kana Saar) and Song of Yusuf Hajji Adan Qabile (Somaliyeey Toosoo) in addition to many others. These poems/songs were exclusively for Somaliland cause and its independence.

 

The history archives evidently highlight the existence of Somaliland, and 34 countries recognized Somaliland after independence from Great Britain. The people of Somaliland merely handed over their independence and country to Italian Somalia. Many Somalilanders consider 1st July 1960 as "Black Day in Somaliland History".

 

Somaliland Prime Minister Mohammed Ibrahim Egal stepped down for the cause of Somali unity. This was the first African leader steps down for interest of cause but unfortunately Italian Somalia did not respect such courageous step. Prime Minister Egal headed Somaliland´s first Council of Ministers which contained four elected ministers and prime minister. Great Britain invited Somaliland to Common Wealth after 26th June 1960.

 

British Somaliland Protectorate held Legislative assembly elections on 17th Feb 1960 between political parties including SNL (Somali National League), NUF (National United Front) and USP (United Somali Party). SNL won the election with 20 out of 33 seats. USP won 12 seats and NUF won only one seat (Michele Maraima seat). SNL and USP formed alliance called SNL/USP. USP, mainly, had wide supporters in Eastern and Western regions of Somaliland (Awdal and Sool).

 

The Somaliland Cabinet:

 

1- Mohamed Ibrahim Egal – Prime Minister

 

2- Garad Ali Garad Jama – Minister

 

3- Ahmed Hajji Duale (Keyse) – Minister

 

4- Hajji Yusuf Iman – Minister

 

5- Hajji Ibrahim Nur – Minister

 

First Somaliland Political Party was formed in 1936 under slogan of SNS (Somali National Society) but unfortunately this party disappeared after modern parties emerged including SNL, NUF (Nafta) and USP in 1945-1958. NUF supported Somaliland to remain under British Protectorate for another 10 years in order the British to build schools, roads, hospitals and other infrastructure. British Government accepted the condition but SNL/USP and even the public did not understand the splendid idea of NUF.

 

Hajji Omer Askar and Mohammed Ibrahim Egal served as President and General Secretary of SNL. Egal was elected from Berbera and he served also as General Secretary of SNL Branch in Berbera. Michele Maraima and Ahmed Hassan served as President and General Secretary of NUF. Garad Ali Garad Jama also led USP.

 

The successful SNL, led by Mohammed Egal demanded for quick independence. He boycotted the earlier elections of Somaliland Legislatives, and his victory was aired by Cairo radio as a slap in the face for imperialism. But Egal, 29 years old, was not expert in fledgling independence, because was not able to stop the failed unity with Italian Somalia.

 

The people of Somaliland are suffering until today, from that fake unity with Italian Somalia. The Arabic proverb says "the mistake of your grandfather kills your children". This is exactly what is happening in Somaliland, because 1960 mistake cost the lives of thousands in 1988 genocide against the people of Somaliland.

 

On 1943, Her Majesty the Queen of England and Wales offered Somaliland leaders to bring Somali-speaking areas like Hawd and Reserve Area (5th Region of Ethiopia) and NFD (Northern Frontier District) under Somaliland administration, but Somalilanders who were enthusiastic to independence turned down the offer and demanded expulsion of British from Somaliland.

 

British handed over the Reserve Area (Part of 5th Region of Ethiopia) to Ethiopian Emperor Haile Salasa on 1954. Somalilanders expressed disappointment during handover of the area to Ethiopia and all people wore white sheet (Weer Cad) around their head to express bad-feelings. Reserve Area was under British Somaliland control.

 

Hassan Hashi Elmi, Brother of Politician Mohammed Hashi Elmi, was head of Somaliland´s Field Force located in Awaare District (Reserve Area) before handover. Field Forces were patrolling forces to protect the border with Ethiopia. Field Forces were part of Somaliland Policed commissioned by Jama Qorsheel.

 

Current Somaliland President Political Advisor, Member of Upper House of the Parliament and Former Somaliland Parliament Speaker Ahmed Mohamed Aden Qaybe worked as General Secretary of Somaliland´s first cabinet who visited Ethiopia to negotiate over freedom of Hawd and Reserve Area with Ethiopian Emperor Haile Salasa.

 

Qaybe wrote on Qarannews that Vice Minister of Interior Affairs of Ethiopia Abdurrahman Mohamed Sayed Abdullah Hassan (The son of Mad Mullah Sayed Abdullah Hassan) was sitting next to Haile Salasa and opposed the proposed freedom of Somali dominated areas in Ethiopia.

 

 

Today, we are witnessing so-called political and religious groups calling for independence of 5th Region of Ethiopia; even some people believe the The Mad Mulla was their own hero.

 

British Governors of Somaliland:

 

I. Oct 1919 - 17 Aug 1922 Geoffrey Francis Archer

 

II. 17 Aug 1922 - 29 Nov 1925 Gerald Henry Summers

 

III. 26 Jan 1926 - 18 Jun 1932 Sir Harold Baxter Kittermaster

 

IV. 18 Jun 1932 - 2 Mar 1939 Sir Arthur Salisbury Lawrance

 

V. 2 Mar 1939 - 18 Aug 1940 Vincent Goncalves Glenday

 

VI. 29 Mar 1941 - 3 Mar 1943 Arthur Reginald Chater

 

VII. 3 Mar 1943 - 15 Nov 1948 Gerald Thomas Fisher

 

VIII. 1948 - Feb 1954 Gerald Reece (from 1950, Sir Gerald Reece)

 

IX. Feb 1954 - 1959 Theodore Ouseley Pike (from 1956, Sir Theodore Ouseley Pike)

 

X. 11 Jul 1959 - 26 Jun 1960 Sir Douglas Hall

 

After Independence Day:

 

On 2nd May 1960, Somaliland cabinet led by Mohamed Ibrahim Egal met with their counterparts in London, England and held ten days meeting. The meeting was to grant independence to Somaliland – as independent State. The British government agreed the independence on 26th June 1960.

 

Somaliland celebrated for the long waited independence and installed the Somaliland Flag at the first time on 26 June Center (near the Central Jail of Hargiesa). Somaliland government constructed mosque in the center now. This is an attempt to erase the old bad memories of the failed unity with Somalia.

 

Unfortunately, after four days Somalilanders joined Italian Somalia to form Somali Republic. Somalilanders had no experience of unity and only wanted to see united Somali starting from NFD of Kenya to French Somaliland (Djibouti).

 

Somaliland was deceived by their trusted brothers in Italian Somalia including power sharing. All important projects went to south Somalia without considering the need of Somaliland to development. Only, after two months from the unity, the Somalilanders were disappointed with response from their brothers in South.

 

1st July 1960 unity between British Somaliland and Italian Somalia was signed without preconditions. Mohammed Ibrahim Egal and other educated members of Somaliland expressed their willingness to remain independent for at least six months, but the public refused and forced them to hand over the independent to Italian Somalia.

 

Also, Minister Garad Ali Garad Jama asked the leaders and chief tribes of Somaliland to remain independent but the crowd roared with famous Somali Proverb "Laa Yaa GARAD" which means NO MR. GARAD even some historians reported that Prime Minister Mohamed Egal was hit by one person with Pepsi Cola bottle on his neck, after Egal asked for delay in unity with Italian Somalia.

 

After two months from the unity, all Somalilanders clearly understood that they have been deceived by their brothers in Italian Somalia. They understood that power sharing is not been done probably. The capital city and leadership of the country went both to the South and Hargiesa got second capital title.

 

First Military Coup in Somali history:

 

The improper power sharing between joining parties triggered anger between young Somaliland officers mainly the military officers who all graduated from Military Colleges in England and were part of Somaliland Scouts. These officers staged military coup in 1961.

 

The coup was to return the Somaliland from 1st July 1960 union. And it was against the government in Mogadishu, but it was not successful because of the public had hope in the unity.

 

The officers included Abdullah Saeed Abbi, Mohammed Ahmed, Hassan Kayd and many other officers. The government imprisoned all those officers involved in the coup and later released them to participate in 1964 war with Ethiopia. Somalia had no military forces equivalent to the jailed officers.

 

The first Somali government led by Aden Adde downgraded the highly qualified and graded officials from Somaliland, who were more educated than their counterparts in Italian Somalia. This angered many Somaliland Officials including Ahmed Hajji Duale (Keyse) who later resigned from the government.

 

In late 1970´s some of Somaliland tribes formed armed group called SNM (Somali National Movement) against oppression of Siyad Barre – who ruled Somalia under gun point from 1969 to 1991. Siyad Barre bombed Somaliland cities in 1988 because he knew that Somalilanders will return their lost integrity and sovereignty. SNM liberated Somaliland in 1990.

 

Today, Somaliland with 3.5 million populations with an area of 135,000 kilometers has all institutions of modern state, and many observers called the international community to recognize but Somaliland is still waiting the free voice of the world to accept their efforts.

 

By Abdulaziz Al-Mutairi

 

Email: az.almutairi@yahoo.com

[xiinfaniin]

lol@ Xaaji NG. Alloow kuu naxariiso! Adeer what are we debating horta?

 

To cut to the chase, this is what I am saying:

 

SL with all its assertions and claims is still part of Somalia. The world sees it that way! Most Somalis see it that way. The fact it's stable does not equal to statehood. In that sense, it’s not different than PL. my contention is not whether Somaliland wants to secede or the case for secession for that matter. My contention is your assertion that Somaliland is a country. I said it’s not. It’s just a political entity…

 

That’s what I’ve repeated to you over and over again, but just like a cloud in a windy day it passed over your head so fast that I have to narrate it again.

 

Oodweyne's ambassadors in near and far are all in his head. Even when little Jabbuuti welcomes Riyaale, his status is no more than a governor of a stable region just like Cadde is!

That is how things are today. How things will be tomorrow however remains to be seen---read my signature adeer!

 

War dadkaan yaa u sheekeeyey...Somaliland waa dal bay lasoo shirtageen

 

One last q yaa NG; if LA comes back into PL's domain, would you change your mind about the feasibility of this project? This is a very relevant q adeer!

[NGONGE]

^^ We shall see.

As for your second question, no I wont. Like SL exploited the chink in PL's armour last time they will do it again. The whole point of throwing my lot with SL is because the admin (and ignore Red Sea's rant there) are head and shoulders above anything I have seen in Somalia in the past thirty years. I totally mean it too, Xiin.

 

Now I am not saying they are perfect of course, they're African (and Somali) after all. But they are miles better than any of their rivals and seem to set their goals then go on achieving them.

 

You may disagree here but you will just be lying to yourself.

[Abtigiis]

NG

 

Siyaasadda Somalida, as I reminded you on multiple occassions, is not where you excel. I am surprised at your insistence on playing the Guru. Perhaps that of Arabs (I saw someone was suggesting you are rooted there) ayaad ku dhaantaa!

[NGONGE]

^^ Tell me what you heard in the coffee shop again, saaxib.

[Abtigiis]

Assuming I hear things in coffee shops, why do you think that is not reflective of the mood of the common man? Where do you hear your stuff? In workshops and websites?

 

Unless that distinctive elitism is haunting you again, the viewpoints of the women selling onions in the street, and the waiter in a restaurant are equally if not more valid than that of a pseudo-intellectual and opportunist politician ranting on the BBC-like Faysal cali Waraabe.

 

Shacabku muxuu aaminsanyahay kolka la leeyahay ma aha afar siyaasi sheekadooda waxa laga hadlayaa.

 

You don't mix with the 'misfits' in coffee shops. It shows. Sadly, that failure has created a vaccum in your analysis, which largely focuses on reciting historical events, political statements and hypothetical value judgements.

[Malika]

^ ,thats what I call telling like it is..

[Paragon]

A week or so ago, I sat (accompanied by another SOL politics forumer) and listened to an informative debate on the origins and the age of Somali tribes. It was surprisingly good natured, save the sly remarks they threw at each other.

 

PS; NGONGE, you'll be surprised these days how the fadhi-ku-dirir has evolved. Better, much better than the one in SOL politics section. Interesting times for Somali politics too. Maalin hore I almost choked on baasto when some SLanders started talking about LasQorey, calling all of Sanaag's inhabitants 'pirates' with the blessings of Puntland . I couldn't resist joining in and saying, 'Riyaale weli maydin haystaa?' lol. That sure got them worked up .

[NGONGE]

^^ I have no problem with fadhi-ku-dirir, saaxib. It serves a purpose; passing time.

 

But, slippery A&T there is changing his tune now. First it was basic and elementary analysis he accused me off but when I pinned him against the wall about his coffee-shop nonsense he turned it round to something about the 'average man and woman'.

 

A&T, those imbiciles you hang around with in coffee shops also believe that the Eart is flat. I need not share some of the stories you find in such establishments with you here. Heck, I bet you've got some of your own already.

 

Adeer, wax la kaalay ban ku edhi (ha ego odhan maqaaxi ban waxan ka maqlay eyo islaanta hiblaayo ayaa waxan tedhi..ceeb caleek ya faarax).

[Abtigiis]

^Isse, NG has no time to hang around in such untidy places and with not-so-bright folks.

 

What he doesn't understand though is the amount of political maturity and coherence of debates that go on in every alley. I was in Hotel in Nairobi and young boys (in their 20s) used to sit around me in the reception area. They start talking about politics and you wonder what more you could add to what they conclude.

 

NG-I officially invite you to join me in one of my several coffee shops. That will sharpen your analyis. Meeshaad ka daadinaysaa ileen waa halkaa'e!

 

EIDT: sometimes I wonder if I know NGONGE. I think he is Cabdi Cumar, a former collegue of mine. The way he frames his arguments and all the dust he has to swirl to convey a simple message is so like him. Your analysis is mostly based on conceptual reasonings and the conclusions are far-fetched. you mistify a simple point.

 

Do you realise if today a government of Somalia is formed [ I don't see the TFG as government, and prominent personalities from the North would declare support and the discussion in Hareisa will change from seeking secession to maxaan yeelaa? Pragmatism will set in. YOU disount the value of that mentality and all the change in attitudes it can evoke. That is not to say that alone will determine the choice of the people. But it will be a critical catalyst. Do you know already some sections among ardent supporters of the secession are asking questions about th viability of their stance? And Most of all, how do you fail to know that fleeting emotions of the Somali's? Adigaa arkii doona.