Self hating dabdhlf

[Castro]

^^^^ You're a little late awoowe. I was predicting your arrival last week.

 

But a 10,000 word reply takes some time, so I understand.

[NGONGE]

Castro,

Yes. Somaliland (like any other country in the world) does have the potential to implode. However, it will take 18 years of war and unrest for it to reach anything like what is taking place in Somalia. Plus, and here is the proof of the pudding, Somaliland has constantly displayed the ability to contain, restrain and control any instability or signs of unrest in the past 18 years.

 

Paragon,

Your hypothesis might have worked ten years ago. Today though, I doubt that most of the people of Somaliland (including those in Awdal) would bat an eyelid at an improvement or deterioration of the conditions in Somalia. What you and all the detractors fail to take into account is the actual strong feeling and separate reality that exist in Somaliland. Oh, you'll get the Baashis, Xiins and Castros telling you that these people live in a dream that can never be fulfilled, but it is as if they're scared to delve deeper into this idea of theirs (and probably yours).

 

Don't be scared, boys. Come closer. Have a look around you. See that shouty Burcawi with his big budh, screaming his head off about defeated lots? See the young mujaahid singing the praises of the Shabab and almost offering to sacrifice himself for their cause? See easy-going yet (sometimes) pan-Somali supporting North? They're all being pulled in different directions by their beliefs, emotions or gut feelings yet they all also share one thing; the reality that IS Somaliland. To relegate that reality into something that amounts to nothing more than a temporary coat hanger is to misjudge (deliberately or otherwise) the strength of feelings in those parts.

 

 

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

War dadkani may xishoodaan. Grievance bay ku leeyihiin. Who does not have grievances?

The land between Merca and Gedo lost close to a quarter million of its people due Aydid’s systematic siege in early days of the Somali civil war. Just last year and half, Ethiopian tanks with America’s logistical support transformed entire neighborhoods in Xamar into rubbles! Yet you don’t hear those communities use these legitimate injustices to tear their country apart. Secessionism is nothing but a political tool for some northern groupings elites to attain power in the future Somali arrangement. Pity those who with all their education buy into this crap and think it can be realized…

Don't be naive, saaxib. This is politics, anything is possible. Any 'educated' person would tell you that. As for the grievance issue. Let me tell you the story of AFC United (are you into football?).

 

A few years ago, Manchester United Football Club was bought by some American tycoon. The loyal supporters of the club were against the idea and believed that this businessman did not understand the history, culture and shared heritage of this club. They contested the sale, tried to pressure the board into not selling and even attempted to organise a supporters' buyout of the club.

They failed.

 

A group of angry and bitter fans decided that they have lost the club they supported all of their lives and that, now that it is owned by an American, there was no point in supporting it anymore. They came upon the idea of setting up their very own football club. Of course, having to start from scratch meant they will have to play in the lower leagues and will neither have the money or the talented players to take them up to the level of their old club. Still, they persevered, advertised for players in the media and conducted trials (tests). Anyway, in time, they had themselves a team. It was a weak team of course. There were no huge funds, hardly any fans and the whole football community in England laughed at these petulant and bitter fans that had the audacity to create a whole football club just because they were angry.

 

Still, FC United joined the lower leagues, played some games (won and lost some) and competed in cup competitions. As the years went by, it managed to make a name for itself and go up a couple of leagues. The fan base that, in the past, consisted of one man and his dog now is in the thousands and is triple that of any club the same size. The football community looks at the club as a legitimate club and nobody sneers at the petulant creators anymore. You see, the reasons for setting up that club don't matter anymore. It is HERE, it is attracting new fans everyday and the only way for it is UP.

 

I do not want to comment on your idea that this is some sort of conspiracy by some Northern elites so that they'll get positions in a functioning Somalia. I think if you reflected a bit more on that you'll be ashamed of such slack reasoning.

[RedSea]

There once this funny gabay by Boon Hersi:

 

Which he says something along these lines:

 

....Adoo Quraacan,

qadana haysan,

Hablaha Qurayshood,

Qooraansigoodu, qaladba weeye.

Cidla ka qaqooqow, adaa iska qooqee,

maxaad ku qooqday.

 

 

I think we all due respect to my fellas from the south, it seems they have priority problems. They luck understanding, and thoughtfullness when it comes to this issue.

 

Their whole world is made of fairytale stories. If somalia gets on its feet again 'just imagine what somaliland will do'? oh no they didnt?

 

Instead of sending good will messege that they are serious and honest about reunification, they dish out what seems to be a threat against somaliland. As though once they get their act together finally, they will be marching towards somaliland in bringing her to her knees in order to submit to century old dream that has shown every bit to be impossible to attain.

 

I don't know about other landers, but I take all that as a threat and not welcoming sight at all. All another reason to brush up resty Klashnikov.

 

 

Anyways, somaliland is set, 1 leadership regardless of how corrupt they are. Waa dad meel loogu hagaagi karo. But isn't it suprising someone who is struggling to work unity between themselves is trying to critize the unity or lack thereof in Somaliland? Funny eh.

 

Nothing works like for mostly what I know of.

 

 

Let us work on this hell hole (south) for now lads, leave somaliland as it is. Since it's best thing that has happenened to somalis post '91. :cool:

 

 

ps. My suggestion is for you to rally behind alshabaab. Once the Ethiopians are defeated, then hopefully Alshabaab can bring the somalis in that region together, roconcile them under the shades of qudhac tree(equivilant to one we had in Burco), have them agree one thing, then come to the discussion table. Is that too much to ask from you ?

[RedSea]

^ :)exactly my point sxb. Well put.

 

Dadkii gaalada ahaa iska daa Muslim ayaa Somaliland iyo habka ay ukala danbayso layaabay oo leh waa in ay 'Africa oo idil ku dayataa somaliland'. Somaalina waatan lagu imtaxaamay cay, critism aan sal iyo raad lahayn.

 

I just hope they get over themselves for one bit and except the fact that they are the lowest of all somalis, the laughing stock of the world and thus should be the last to critize anyone.

[Che -Guevara]

^If anything, at least you are on message.

[xiinfaniin]

NG,

 

I am not sure if you confuse the reality of SL entity as a functioning region with that of a state or country! The fact of the matter is that Somaliland is NOT a country! Depicting it as a country does not make it so! The difference (forget about feelings and emotions) between SL & PL in the eyes of the observers of the region borders zero! You may not be a keen observer of the ways Somalis think politically, but nothing has fundamentally changed in the political equation of that region save from LA changing hands again (remember when it changed last time around it didn’t make SL disappear from the map!). No body is denying SL’s existence. Just like I admit that PL exists, I also admit that SL exists as a political entity. Dig deep, and you will probably give more credence to my theory than you did so far. Namely that the only probable outcome of this mad project in the minds of the elites of that region is to perhaps be a better position next time around in terms of getting a favorable deal in the future federal arrangement. And that is understandable and may be worth the effort. But to think that somehow Somalia is going to be broken up into tribal enclaves or that break up will benefit SL is quite fanatical methinks.

 

The very variables that complicate the political stability of Somalia are present in every region and that includes SL! As you said it the other day quite eloquently, that is how it is and how it’s going to be in the future. What makes you think that recent SL militia’s victories in her East are prelude to a brighter future as far as her independence objectives are concern adeer? To me what happened recently could be easily explained in the context of what is going in the south, and does not warrant for anyone to jump in or out of ship…

[Castro]

^^^^ NGONGE is playing the devil's advocate. Don't labor in explaining things to him. If anyone in this secessionist lot understands, it's him. The elitist Oodweyne also understands but he's a fanatic. The rest were born after 1985 and were told by ayeeyo that Somaliland has always been sovereign. Even during colonial times. lol.

[Som@li]

Somaliland is but nothing coalition of Habro who are trying to gain political advantage in the North, but every habar in Somalia (who has grievances) decices to get her toolo as a country, that is nonsense.

 

And I see those young ones are the most who fall for this crap,and are most delusional.

 

There is one Somalia, Get it.

[Abtigiis]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

[QB] Castro,

Yes. Somaliland (like any other country in the world) does have the potential to implode. However, it will take 18 years of war and unrest for it to reach anything like what is taking place in Somalia. Plus, and here is the proof of the pudding, Somaliland has constantly displayed the ability to contain, restrain and control any instability or signs of unrest in the past 18 years.

 

Come on NG, you can do better than this shallow and street-level analysis. All the feelings in the North [with the exception of a small community around Hargeisa] is what it is mainly because the other voices for unity hasnot spoken, and there is no other alternative for now. If a democratic and popular regime is born in South Somalia, except a massive change of the mood in the North. Sool, Sanaag and Awdal will tilt towards the south without a question. Togdheer will be divided. Hargeisa is tricky, but if the proponnents of unity speak out (they can't do that now), there will be cracks here too. You should know that.

[Ibtisam]

Originally posted by Xidigo*:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ibtisam:

as Xidigo says, or were expecting handouts from their relative but he has not given enough or anything.

Who said we want any handouts from Riyoode? :rolleyes: Awdelites want to keep what is theirs and not have to beg for it from Hargeysa. Did you even read what I wrote? And the sick people protesting the move of the rig to Borama will soon see our beautiful blue flag in every city in Awdal and say good bye to that Irani flag.

It's coming up! Ha sugi waayin.

 

Riyoode magacayaga ayuu isticmalayaa si uu idiinku baryo tago.

Do you read what I said before you chopped up my sentences and jumped [the comma indicates a new point dear, the Xidigo says was relation to the first point, I.e. they’ve bee mistreated. In any case read again because I think you clearly you missed the point.

 

I could not care less which flag Awdal or any part waves, but the fact of matter remains that waad iska haadli. Reer Awdal like any other region will wave which ever flag is helping them in their day to day realities. You have the comfort to hold sentimental value of blue flags and dreams, they are just trying to have the basic normal life and could not care less about blue flag. If cared so much, they would’ve taken up arms ages ago. Maybe you need to get out of your dream and get a reality check.

 

 

Loool @ your contradictor, you don’t want to beg Hargisa and they are happy keeping what’s there’s. Lol I thought you was mad because your uncle was ignoring Ya’ll and not doing anything for your people. Make up your mind dear, you just sound confused, and slightly bitter.

 

Reer Awdal has sever websites which speak their concerns loud and clear (And concerns they do have) but really yaad uu faani or rather threatening. Sleeping giant, ha sugi waayin yad yad ya. Do you really think you represent the majority of reer Awdal?

 

Sheeka aayad heese.

[NGONGE]

^^ Heh. You tell me that I should know better and advice me to improve on my shallow street-level analysis then go on showering me with a fat load of hearsay and nonsense? Priceless.

 

A&T, Xiin and Castro come on guys let us clear things up here and deal with this in the proper way. So far what you're given me is stuff and nonsense. I want FACTS (or, failing that, some educated guesses). Don't give me some half-baked opinions that masquerade as facts (just like Lois Lane and Xidigo have been doing for the last few days) and expect me to fall for it.

 

For a start, Xiin, there is no point in entertaining the thought that some Somaliland elites are doing this for such a reason or such a reason. This is baseless conjecture and there is not a single iota of evidence to back up such a fantastic argument.

 

Dabshid and A &T are both trying to sell us the myth about the 'coalition of habro'. A&T goes even further and narrows it down to one element within this coalition; the resolve of the rest (in his eyes) is wobbly, at best. Bah and humbug, says I. Idle gossip will not help you here, you will need to come up with something a little more substantial and solid than the 'everyone knows that the habro are the only ones that want Somaliland'. In the face of the fact that Somaliland has been going from strength to strength in the past 18 years and includes (and retains) sizeable clans (other than the three habros), what proof is there for this weak argument of yours? Ha eska hadlina, saaxbiyaal. Wax la kaalaya.

 

Now, let me return to Xiin and his brilliant argument that there is no discernable difference in the eyes of regional observers between PL and SL! I'm sure that it'll come as no surprise to you that I disagree here. There IS a huge gulf in the way both entities are viewed by all. Let us not attempt to pull the wool over each others eyes here or indulge in the tedious practice of splitting hairs either. One entity has seceded and is working towards attaining recognition whilst the other is unsure what its real point of being is. Still, I am sure (as I bet you are) that there is no doubt in the minds of regional (and international) observers as to the difference between the two entities. The fact that Somaliland is not recognised yet (for the purposes of this point alone) is neither here nor there. The fact that those in the region (and elsewhere) are engaging with Somaliland in the same way they would a sovereign state is what weakens your argument, saaxib. I fully expect you to come back with something about Cade Muse going to sell some goats to Kuwait or some such country and receiving the full VIP treatment and what not. But, just remember the point you made and calm yourself down. The world and his dog view Somaliland as an entity that seeks separation from Somalia (if they agree or don't agree with such a separation does not really matter). This is distinctly different to a region of Somalia that is relatively peaceful and not seeking secession. You know the difference but chose to play this hide and seek game to sidetrack the discussion.

 

The recent SL victories (as you like to call them) were not military ones. They were psychological. It shows that the SL admin and their advisors know what they are doing, do it expertly and will continue to improve with every passing day. Of course, the SL militia you are talking about there was entirely made up of people from that area, as I'm sure you are well aware. Is this a final chance realisation that this has gone beyond the tribal enclaves contention? Those are some hot coals you're trying to skip over there, saaxib.

 

Still, I shall grant you the tribal statement and easily concede the point that it also exists in the North (only a mad man wouldn't). The difference, as I already told Castro above, is in the way the North and South deal with tribal friction. SL has shown time and again its knack for chipping away at hostility then bringing in (and retaining) those that might have been opposed to it yesterday. It's the natural progression that gives me reasons to be optimistic and getting of my fence. If the SL admin is skilled enough at driving a wedge right through the H collective, what are a few foreign countries, AU, EU or UN? At any rate, my optimism here is a darn sight more plausible than your one with the Djibouti conference.

 

Now boys, I cannot keep typing the same things over and over again. Lets play ball.

 

ps

Castro,

What do you propose to do with those born after 1985? Purge them? Brain wash them? They know nothing other than Somalialnd and will fight to keep it that way. You mock their age there but again you put your foot in it by acknowledging the fervent feelings amongst the Somaliland youth.

 

Our shabaab are better than your shabaab, saaxib. Some of them are girls too. Won't you come back home?

[Fabregas]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

[QB] NG,

 

Namely that the only probable outcome of this mad project in the minds of the elites of that region is to perhaps be a better position next time around in terms of getting a favorable deal in the future federal arrangement.

 

 

[N.O.R.F]

Looks like NG is onto something here

 

Careful with the lads saxib. One day they are staunch nationalists, the next they don’t mind SL going its own way so long as the people of SSC have a referendum! Today its reer Awdal who are being kept hostage

[Fabregas]

^^Burco is being held hostage too

[Castro]

What do you propose to do with those born after 1985? Purge them? Brain wash them? They know nothing other than Somalialnd and will fight to keep it that way. You mock their age there but again you put your foot in it by acknowledging the fervent feelings amongst the Somaliland youth.

They've already been brainwashed once. I would rehabilitate the poor sods.