Garowe Online Editorial: Islam Unseparable from Politics !

[Allamagan]

Could the Islamist leadership show the governments of Ethiopia and the West that they were not, in fact, a part of an international agenda with questionable means and motives?

What aload of rubbish! Yaa usheega wiilkaas in being a practisig muslin is widely considered you "as part of an international agenda with quetionable means and motives" by etos and Sam, the Bully. BTW there was not much editorial content in there...

[Socod_badne]

I like to know how Baashi reconciles two viewpoints of his that are diametrically opposed to each other. On hand he says nothing justifies what Melez Zenawi is doing in Benaadir and then proceeds to say what's happening in Somalia is partly self-inflicted. If nothing justifies what Melez Zenawi is doing in Benaadir, how can any self-inflicting doing justify it. It is like saying rape is wrong but there are circumstances where it is partly explainable by what the rape victim did or didn't do.

[Baashi]

You are wrong baba. The rape analogy doesn’t fit. Nevertheless, yours are fair questions. Unlike forum’s doc-ka-yeers, my man SC is reading between the lines. Now we are getting into the crux of the matter. Doc-ka-yeers of the site need to sit back and learn how arguments are constructed. Here we go. You would be surprised how simple the debate, if this is one, could get when the premise and the conclusion it leads to are objectively examined.

 

The premise in this case is that one of the reasons (out of many) -- pay attention to the details you moron doc-ka-yeers -- Tigre battalions are in Somalia is because one of the factions in the ongoing Somali contest asked for their help. Dabo dhilif, Gaalo raac, call them names; that's fine with me. The said faction asked outside help A) because it is weak (no grass root support, etc) B) it faced certain elimination.

 

Now, are we on the same page? Pick the holes and point them out. We will put them under the microscope (Baashi Waa Siday Tahay hammer is swinging!) for more dissection, alright. No ad hominem crab please. Moving on...

 

Because the contest for resource, power, and what have you is not settled one way or another, the fight is primarily between Somalis -- Muslim Somalis. Tigre involvement is a secondary variable. Their, the Tigre that is, support had been solicited by Muslim Somalis seeking to prevail in Somali conflict, after all.

 

Ethiopia is a rival and historical foe. One fourth of its domain is inhabited by untamed and ethnic Muslim Somalis. Somalia that once existed claimed in the past, and in some circles still claim the ownership of that territory. The feud on that real estate has yet to be settled.

 

Today Somalia is a textbook failed state. Its people are mired in tragic and costly civil war. It is okay to side one side but still I hope you would agree folks fighting are from the same family. One would expect from Ethiopia, or any rival secular state, to advance its national interest at the expense of its rival foe now wounded and limping. That’s no surprise to the informed and realists among us.

 

The fact that Somalis failed to resolve their differences in a civilized manner is a failure of leadership -- Somali shortcomings through and through. Disintegration, wars, famine, piracy, secession, regionalism are all direct consequences from that singular failure. However you slice and dice it, the fact remain the same; problem lay squarely at the Somali door. The tragedy is partly self-inflicted one is a reasonable conclusion given the evidence I listed, baba.

 

The conclusion doesn’t lead to infer that killing, looting, raping, and what not committed is justifiable in any way or form. The heinous crimes that conflicts bring are not justifiable. It would be logical fallacy to say so.

[Abu-Salman]

Baashi is a sincere and coherent brother in the sense that he is not opposing Shariah unlike some seculars "Muslims", avowed atheists or Brainwashed "converts", deluded enough to post islamophob trash even Fox news or the State Department would shun.

 

To his credit, he deliberately made clear that Ethiopians atrocities and interferences could not be justified under any circumstance and expressed his solidarity with our Somali & Somali Galbeed Brothers.

 

 

After considering such clear stance, we could now discuss his arguments:

 

 

1- Ethiopia is an opportunist Historical Arch-enemy preying ruthlessly on a diseased body, just like pathologies thrive on immuno-deficient patients; hence the Absolute Prerequisite of Somalis Reconciliation and Unity.

 

 

2- The courts had deep flaws, epitomized by characters such as Indhacade and its Military Expansion in regions outside Banadir.

 

 

Having said that, how could have the Courts fostered Unity and Reconciliation with Ethiopia closely monitoring its Warlord clients while invading an ever increasing part of the country?

 

Is this not akin to hoping for inter-Afghans "reconciliation" or Palestinian "unity", while still under ocuupation, the very reason why sectarian rifts are exacerbated?

 

Could have the ICU done without the powerful militias of Indhacade, its military backbone, while affording to wait for the increasingly threatening invaders to attack the only really independent part of Somali Lands at that time?

 

Did not the US dominated Security Council chose that precise moment to lift Arms Embargo while authorizing "Peacekeepers", possibly disembarking from Kismayo Port, precisely to sabotage any chance of inter-Somali peace?

 

Did not the ICU clearly spelt out its determination to return looted properties?

 

Most crucially, was it possible at that time to make arresting and judging former criminals The priority, in detriment to the really relevant challenge of establishing Shariah while saving what remained of Somalia from another round of Acculturation by the Secularists, after the genocidal failure of the last atheist regime?

 

Who would have delivered Da'wah, if the Courts further waited while Scholars were flown to Torture centers, focusing instead on judging a particular clan leaders, who at least defended Shariah and thus technically still Muslims, while ignoring all the other not less criminal Secular Warlords who transformed Somalia into a Heaven for Radioactive Waste, Deliberately Desertified?

[STOIC]

I’m not familiar with the political, ideological and military differences between the factions fighting in southern Somalia, but having said that I was wondering whether there was any other political resources that could have been utilized directly or indirectly without inviting Ethiopia into the Somali picture? Strictly speaking, I would not invite someone who bode ill for me into my house.

 

The prospect of a ruling government are improved if its citizens and leaders strongly support the values and practices of the said government. I don’t mean to suggest that no one supports the current TFG rule, but from my readings majority of the people in Mogadishu and it’s environ are against them. No institutions will survive when the underlying conditions are highly unfavorable.

 

 

Both the number of the people that supports and extent of territory matters when it comes to legitimacy of any government. What constitutes a fair representation within our Somali politics is a subject of endless controversy, in part because of the tribal allegiance. Within the impenetrable thicket of group affiliation I think it was wrong to invite a non-neutral country into the equation. At least the TFG should have foreseen the political windfall that was to befall them .It is perfectly reasonable, and logically necessary, to conclude that Ethipia is not the solution to Somali problem.

 

PS Lets please Keep it civil I'm learning the different views on this issue.

[Emperor]

Very good article, I agree in most of the points raised, I don't see the fuss is being made about someone agreeing with some of the points raised in it.

 

I completely agree that Politics and religion can not be seperated in the Somalia, religion should remain at the top of the Somali decision making process.

 

While extremist groups of all forms must be shunned, sensible groups with strong Islamic foundations and values must be welcomed into Somalia's political arena, as both a matter of practicality and a venue to marginalize extremists hiding behind a cloak of Islam.

Excellent point, I couldn't agree anymore...

 

The Puntland Uluma example and how they resolved the money making machine problems was great demonstration of how the Uluma and religious Sheiks have an important role in our socieity, but make no mistake, waa Culumo nabad katalinayso...

[Emperor]

^Not fake Indhacade like Sheikhs, Lol...

 

I scrapped the above in a rush, Sir Alex's Apprentice ayaan ku ordaayay, Caawa he was so pissed off and fired two candidates , Abu Sorry that was out of topic...

[Fabregas]

@Baashi, a rather simplistic reading of the events that occured in those sorry summer nights of 2006, wouldn't you say!

 

Many people say ICU should have stayed confined to "Muqdisho", not even Benadir! I'm looking for someone to clearly " analyse from all angles, the wisdom of staying confined to Muqdisho and how this would have prevented the subsequent war that would have occured! To me it seems like a non-event!

 

As for making a peace deal with one wing of the TFG, clearly that would have been utterly useless and irrelvant. The hawks of the T.F.G, Warlords and Ethiopians, don't forget Uncle Sam and UN, all decided that Ethiopians soldiers would invade SOmalia en masse. Thousands of Ethiopian troops were gearing up for a full scale war and had made bases in major Somali cities. Even the Ethiopian parliament authorised a war against the ICU. Meanwhile, Alshabaab and others were entertaining the idea of a long guerilla war in Somalia!

 

How can agreeing a peace deal with one wing of the TFG compensate for the fact that 40 000 or more troops had entered your country in preperation for war? Clearly, no one in the T.F.G had the strength( many wante them there) to tell the Ethiopian forces to leave! So any hopes of the TFG and ICU reaching an understanding were out of the window!

 

The crux of the matter is that the " Islamists" in SOmalia could have never won over the Ethiopian or Neo-cons( since those entities had decide on war in July 2006).

 

The only thing they could have done was accept foreign troops in Somalia and/or hand over some of the wanted men in Somalia( something Sheikh Shariff couldn't do that)! In other words, they were given the choices of capitulating or surrendering. They chose the latter!

 

As for taking other towns outside of MUQ, one can say that was probably good military thinking on their part, and probably somewhat naive in some aspects.

 

Declaring war on Ethiopian troops? Probably a great deal of wisdom lay behind that decision( militarily and politically). Although Somalis will have to live with the humanitarian consequences of that decision for a very long time!

 

Attacking Badioa? A strategic and military blunder!

 

p.s the seven day ultimatum and the threats about Adiss Ababa were in December 2006! When the war had already started and all peace talks were over!

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Baashi, it is too painful to read your posts and not realize the erstwhile coherent posts of yours going down the pit and limited to name-calling iyo aflagaado. Waaku sidee, widaayoow?

 

If your premature political assumptions of blame-every Soomaali group but Xabashis does not make a dint of sense, ma caay ayee sheekada isku badashay?

 

This new idea of yours vindicating -- and almost condoning of -- the Xabashi atrocities does not become of you, the Baashi I knew. And noo, do not say you don't. Because you are just ignoring the maroodi in the room, the Xabashis. Wax soo dhacaaye iyo wixii dhacay ka daba socotaa maanta dhan. Soomaali wey isleysay, isdishay, isbaabisay, isdhameysay -- no one is denying that fact. Inaa ka daba noq noqotid for this maanta when it is not needed ayaa la yaabanahay. You are completely ignoring Xabashada, and as a though you wrongly think they are some kind of 'alies' who have well-intentioned policies towards to Soomaaliya.

 

For your own information, Xabashis faragaliska Soomaaliya ku heysay ma bilaaban with the rise of Maxkamadaha; they were in Soomaaliya long before ay soo shaacbaxeen.

 

And who would Maxkamadaha sit with? Xabashis? Dad dalkaaga ku jiro maxaa isku sheegeysiin? Ooh, they should have sat with the stooges, right? Sitting with waxaa dhaanto Xabashada oo lala gorgordamo since at least their Xabashi masters can fulfill their promises, unlike their puppets. Again, wixii dhacay waa dhacay, today what are you demanding and blabbing about?

 

I asked you earlier and I will ask you again: What now? Hadda. Do you still think sitting with -- and probably submitting to -- Xabashis can solve this? How gullibly guileful.

 

Neither does the lack of comprehension nor having an astute political observance has to do with your harebrained ideas; they are just too dreamy, too preposterous, my friend. It does not exist on this earthy life we know. An other world, probably.

 

Marka wax kale lasoo shirtag macquul ah, that is not zany. Saying and repeating it in boqol different ways ma soconeyso, it is just too repetitive. It will not work, it is not working and it didn't work.

[N.O.R.F]

Baashe,

 

The author provides nothing new. 80% of the article is a re-hash of old news which most people already know and would agree with. The UIC were a breath of fresh air – agreed, they brought peace – agreed, they were naïve – agreed, things could have worked out for the better – hmm ok agreed.

 

It’s a classic example of praising an individual/group throughout most of the article with a twist near the end of it based on deliberately manipulated and inaccurate information. The objective of an ‘objective’ journalist is to use as many facts as possible in order to give as holistic opinion as possible on the subject. He failed miserably here!

 

Failure lambar waaxid: the UIC did not tell the government to surrender.

 

Failure raqam laba: the author fails to mention that the UIC got rid of the same warlords the ‘president’ wanted to get rid of with the help of UN forces.

 

Ta sadexaad: the author fails to mention that the UIC did indeed invite him and the govnt to take up their seats in Muqdisho.

 

Failure raqam afar: the author fails to mention the govnt’s lie that there were only 200 Ethiopian soldiers training the TFG when there were in fact more than 8,000 plus CIA preparing for battle.

 

Khamsaa: the author forgets to mention Yeey was/is a warlord

 

Also note the reference to the Ethio military as Yeey’s ‘friends’.

 

It usually takes a couple of sentences before you see the author’s angle and who he is actually favouring. In this case a took 3 or 4 paragraphs. Kudos to him I suppose.

[xiinfaniin]

Courts made mistakes before. Anyone who disputes that is just not reading the painful facts that emerged after the Courts’ military defeat! And on that point this article is not far from the truth. Courts also made progress in pacifying critical part of the south and projecting a political vision that was inclusive and different than what was practiced in Somalia. This article captures that as well…so what’s this fuss all about I ask?

 

Today Courts are leading again. I found quite courageous of them to enter a dialog with the very folks who caused the military and political setbacks Courts suffered last year! And that’s a leadership; the confidence and willingness to take risk and lead….

[Che -Guevara]

^Gotta admire your tenacity

[Thankful]

political vision that was inclusive

YEAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH RIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGHHHHT. Maybe inclusive for your side....not for mine.

 

I hope next time I see their leadership sitting and making decision with Somalis from all over. Like Abdullahi Yusuf and Nur Cade. We see Sharif, Indha'Cade and Aweys. If you want the country include the country in your leadership. That's why the C in the ICU stood for clan or clown courts.

[xiinfaniin]

^^ @ A Yusuf as inclusive leader

 

Che you got to agree with me on this one !

[Che -Guevara]

^I wish I did.

 

Just wondering Saaxib, do you ever stop and think just maybe the TFG is beyond redemption?

 

And in all seriousness, how much power do they weild in Somalia. The only power in Somalia right now are Ethios who pretty much do watever they like and the Al-shabaab. The TFG and Asmara are merely symbolic entities.

 

P.S. If your call for negiotation is sincere. I say let it be between Somali tribes but let it be done outside the TFG and Al-Shabaab framework.