Jubba Valley Initiative is a good step in the right direction

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

To say again; to Miskiin, the ilk you are representing their interests in this forum and the one you seem to think I am representing are "Dal iyo Dasheed". To him, they are two sides of the same coin that have no reason for being there.

I hate qabyaalad. Do not make it qabyaalad issue, and do not misintepret me for your own favourism, widaay.

 

The point is, have you agreed that warlord, Barre Hiiraale, has no business in Kismaayo? I am not suggesting this because of his qabiil. That is preposterous. What I am referring to is where he is from. The man admits being born somewhere in Galgaduud, that he had had possibly never lived in Jubbooyinka before the war, no? Can you refute this? Same with Moorgan, a man who was born in Qardho. He too has no business in Kismaayo. It isn't because of qabiil. Noo.

 

Uunlaaye and his family, for example, can claim Kismaayo, and I would've supported their right to all along. The question, again, isn't, either, about reer Afmadoow. They are a true residents of Jubbooyinka, they live there; they cultivate the land; they are true native residents. They do live in several degmooyin, including Badhaadhe, Libooy, and Afmadoow. They also live in Baardheere. Illustrate to us one "degmo" that Barre Hiiraale's family [you can read it as clan if you want] live in Jubbooyinka, both gobol? Has his family or close relatives ever lived in Jilib? Jamaame? Qooqaani? Saakoow? Bu'aale? Xagar? Iskaba dhaaf Afmadoow iyo Libooy. Dhabta ha laga hadlo. Yaala is indha tirin.

 

Waxaan aniga kasoo horjeedo is nin meel kale kasoo duulay hadana anagoo soo jeedno oo miirkeena qabna raba inuu na marsiiyo ama naga dhaadhacsiiyo that he is a native of Kismaayo. And if you believe that, I don’t blame you, laakiin fikradaas hala imaan mahaan without being refuted. I know where this forceful clanization of Kismaayo is leading to, which I rightly believe to be a pipe dream: "Jubbaland."

 

A dream that envisions a forceful expulsion of the peaceful, centuries-old local residents. And I have told you this before: There won't ever be "Jubbland," believe in me.

 

Why?

 

Because Jubbooyinka, unlike other autonomous "lands," Soomaali dhan ayaa equal u dagan, hadee majority timaadana waala og yahay dadka ku badan, the so-called minority people, such as Baajuun iyo Jareerweyne.

 

People, by force or diplomatic, try to occupy others' lands all the time, nonetheless they eventually give up. Jubbooyinka, including Kismaayo, is no different.

 

I don’t like muran milaa micno daro ah, laakiin waxyaabaha aad lasoo shirtageysid at least have the audacity to support such extreme claims.

[Castro]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Libaaxow

, jecliyaa marka clever

Castro

struggles to play to the gallery

. This time the age factor has slowed him down. Digfer buu ku leeyahay. Ilaahay uun baa kaa weyn, my dear Castro

!

You guys, we're messing up a good debate here. Sorry MMA. We should continue our Carbon dating exercise somewhere else. I'm sure that's the only way to date the age of both of you for I have an original birth certificate.

[Gabbal]

I hate qabyaalad. Do not make it qabyaalad issue, and do not misintepret me for your own favourism, widaay.

Sxb I do not want engage in a childish bouts of "he said, she said" ee as you have said, we had talked before, and in no explicit terms have you implied all areas in the south are occupied. You have also hinted that your translation of the "south" ment anything below the Galgadud border. Gedo is occupied, Baardheere is occupied, Kismaayo is occupied, Dhoobley is occupied, Af-madaw is occupied. You have hinted that in our personal discussions, and it is because of respect that I am not delving into those hints more unambiguously.

 

Barre Hiiraale's shaqsi was brought to Kismaayo for the same reason your shaqsi is in this debate. Whether he is from Galgadud or Kilika 5naad, he came to Kismaayo for the same reason you are defending the region today; materialized or percieved defense of his people. Whether your shaqsi is from Xudur or Muqdisho naught matters, as you are here in this debate defending the land because of the demographic makeup of some of the inhabitants.

 

You have also asked me to name areas where Barre Hiiraale's family (as you said read clan) have originally inhabited in Jubbaland apart from Gedo. I respond with Jamaame, Jilib, Libooy, Bu'aale, Dhoobley, af-Madoow, and especially Kismaayo all had sizable concentrations of Hiiraale's "family". Before the civil war, the deegaan of Jamaame itself was majority "reer Gedo" adna wax kalaa ka hadlaysaa! Good Miskiin, there are sub-clans within Hiiraale's "family" that only live in Jubooyinka, apart from Gedo. Marka take this as an eye opener to the truth.

 

You speak of expulsion, and I ask what expulsion? Hadal bilaa macno daro ah, shir lalama soo tagee, what expulsion? Has Barre Hiiraale uprooted people from their lands? Has he kicked them of their houses? Has he fought any other people except for Morgan? Does he conscript people forcefully into his militias? Does he steal people's harvests? What? I'm curious as what proof you have to back your allegations.

 

When Barre Hiiraale left for Barawa and onto Mogadishu recently, do you know who was presided over Kismaayo and the regions? It was non other then Minister Tarax whose constituency is located in Af-madow, Bu'aale. Is that not a show of confidence and endorsement from the people whose land is majority in the Jubbada Hoose? When Barre Hiiraale asked the people of the regions to support his quest to reconcile the divided factions of the government, was not Jilib especially that exploded in bouts of celebrations to support him? When two important groups in the regions went to war in Janaal Cabdille, did they not request Barre Hiiraale to judge between them? Was it not in Handaraaf that Sultan Sokor, Col Cabdimahdi representing the majority of the inhabitants of their deegaan express satisfaction in Barre Hiiraale's rule of the regions and swear allegiance? Marka ninyahow la iskama hadlo, daacada waa wax loo baahanyahy. All those events can also be proven if but asked to verify.

 

As for Jubbaland; it was a separate colony that grouped together what is today Gedo, Jubbada Hoose, and Jubbada Dhexe and future autonomous state as recognized and approved by even this government. Never has an official census been taken so I have no idea how you can say "dadka majority ahaan u dago". That is opinion and in this day and age, fact matters not opinion! How does having one degmo make a demographic group a "majority" as opposed to ones that have six degmos and more? It doesn't and is even the opposite, right? Marka ninyahow Jubbaland is a state and a recognized one at that, so infact the future will tell the percentages of the demographic makeup of the area. Markaas aan sugno.Opinion doesn't hold sway in this time in juncture.

[Jacpher]

Originally posted by

Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar:

Dhabta ha laga hadlo. Yaala is indha tirin.

I doubt if some are ready for a reality check.

 

Originally posted by

Kashanre:

Kismaayo all had sizable concentrations of Hiiraale's "family". Before the civil war, the deegaan of Jamaame itself was majority "reer Gedo" adna wax kalaa ka hadlaysaa! Good Miskiin, there are sub-clans within Hiiraale's "family" that only live in Jubooyinka, apart from Gedo. Marka take this as an eye opener to the truth.

MMA mentioned a well-known individual that owns a famous hotel among other properties in the city. Would you mind telling us some of the ‘sizable concentrations’ you referring to.

 

Originally posted by

Kashanre:

Has Barre Hiiraale uprooted people from their lands? Has he kicked them of their houses? Has he fought any other people except for Morgan? Does he conscript people forcefully into his militias? Does he steal people's harvests? What? I'm curious as what proof you have to back your allegations.

I hate to partake such debate but I also hate to let factitious info pass as facts. I don’t know if you’re aware of what you just wrote, or if you just believe the crap coming out of your mouth. Barre Hiraale is indeed a warlord and has invaded the city. Tell me how in the world a warlord invades a peaceful town and not carry out some of the things you’ve mentioned. That’s just impossible unless the angles helped him out or is it that you see him and his militia as such. Would you refute his perceived title as warlord? No? I believe I have said it before and I’ll again, Barre and Morgan are on the same token regardless of their tribe, just like the rest. No matter how they change or what they do next, they’re still criminals and deserve for what they inflicted on us. I hope we’re in agreement so far.

 

Now for you to legitimate Barre’s control of the city and dust off his record is not only dishonest but also disgusting. He remains to be the butcher that invaded the city on Friday during Ramadan within hours of Iftar,thus causing thousands to flee from their Afur. Yes, he confiscated the residents of their afur, land, property and most of all their identity. These innocents include women and children who have been looted and their property stolen by the militia Barre controls. So yes Barre is guilty and you know that but probably won’t admit. No matter what he does next, his record can’t be erased & forgotten. The same goes for all the warlords. I despise the appraisement of these thugs. You may as well praise the devil. He does not abduct people in Ramadan.

 

Over the years, I have seen men that can’t correctly spel the name of the city and yet act as if elected to represent reer Kismaayo. Take this fact from me. Unlike others, reer Kismaayo have no tribal problems. They love, reside, support, share, and do things generally together regardless of their clan relations. As we said it, once you’re born of ciyaal Kismaayo, you live as ciyaal kismaayo.

[Gabbal]

I hate to partake such debate but I also hate to let

fictitious

info pass as facts. I don’t know if you’re aware of what you just wrote, or if you just believe the crap coming out of your mouth.

Barre Hiraale is indeed a warlord and has invaded the city.

Tell me how in the world a warlord invades a peaceful town and not carry out some of the things you’ve mentioned

. That’s just impossible unless the angles helped him out or is it that you see him and his militia as such. Would you refute his perceived title as warlord? No? I believe I have said it before and I’ll again,

Barre and Morgan are on the same token

regardless of their tribe, just like the rest. No matter how they change or what they do next, they’re still criminals and deserve for what

they inflicted

on us. I hope we’re in agreement so far.

Read what you have written expertly and come back to me. Ninyahow indha-adeegaada serves no bounds!

 

The topic has purposely been diverged from where you brought it now, by no less then Xiin, because he understood the implications of debating about the merits of Hiiraale and Ahmed Warsame attacking the city in the first place! You are willing to face the devil in the face, whether on purpose or not, I applaud you for taking that great leap to dispelling the haze surrounding the reason Hiiraale came to control the city.

 

Did my eyes decieve me, or did I read you write Hiiraale, then a "warlord", invaded a peaceful town? What warlord? Whose peace? The ones who were forcefully made homeless with their clothes and what belongings they could muster strewn around them at the gates of the city or the ones who sat down in the just vacated warm living rooms and ate the just vacated intact hot meals? Do you seriously intend on writting in this forum, at the mercy of the majority of nomad's ignorance surrounding the situation, to discuss with me the legitimacy of the act that expelled Morgan from the city? Ninyahow indha-adeegaada has no bounds!

 

There is more I want to say, but waa inaan hubsado whether your meaning came out as the way you intended or whether it was an honest slip of the finger. For the benefit of fairness, I will let you verify if what you had ment was exactly as it had come out. Marka waan sugi ilaa aan hubsado indha-adeega inay gaf ahayd ama inay daacad kaa ahayd.

[Dhubad.]

Yes, he confiscated the residents of their afur, land, property and most of all their identity. These innocents include women and children who have been looted and their property stolen by the militia Barre controls. So yes Barre is guilty and you know that but probably won’t admit. No matter what he does next, his record can’t be erased & forgotten.

It is important to ask yourself what made Barre to invade Kismayo? Did he just decide one day to invade the city and take control of it?? Boorka aad isku qarinaysaan ka soo baxa.

 

He marched into the city after his people were eradicated and kicked-out of the city by Morgan and his Militia, simply because they were clan X and have no right to live in the city. I ask you is that acceptable?

 

So if you guys decide to look the matter in one angle then Sheekadu waligeed madhamaanayso, midi midi ku taag bay noqonaysaa.

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

I think I forgot to ask an essential, basic question.

 

IS "god-like, respected and honoured" Barre Hiiraale a warlord?

 

If no, war dhamaaday.

 

If yes, we might...

 

And for this quote, I couldn't resist:

 

...the deegaan of Jamaame itself was majority "reer Gedo"

And thanks for the laugh! Living room History 101 [the best recorded courtesy of adeer waxaas yiri idaacad].

 

Perhaps you meant, I guess, by "reer Gedo," you were referring to reer Baardheere and Luuq, not reer Buuloxaawo or Garbahaareey.

[Gabbal]

^Good day to you too, sir.

 

 

p.s. In the future, I would hope you refrain from taking my quotes completely out context in the hopes of scoring a point or two. It seems as though my earlier request was deliberately ignored.

[Yeniceri]

In this Forum, some nomads believe that Cabdullahi Yusuf is not a warlord. Conversely, others attest as factual that Max'd Qanyare and Muuse Suudi don't own roadblocks in Muqdisho. Yet, another set of nomads will defend Barre Hiiraale at all costs, even argue that he's an honorable man.

 

Aren't these divergent and often conflicting views the epitome of the Somali socio-political problem?

 

RELATED NEWS:

 

Wararkii ugu Dambeeyey ee Kismaayo oo Xaley uu isku dhac ku dhexmarey maleeshiyaad Taabacsan Col.Bare Hiiraale iyo ilaalada Col Cabdi cigaal

 

Cabdi-Yare--Allgedo-Muqdisho

 

Ugu yaraan labo qof ayaa ku dhaawacantay,lamina sheegin cid ku dhimatay iska hor imaad hubaysan oo mudo kooban socdey fiidnamadii xaley gudaha magaalada kismaayo oo la xaqiijiyey inuu u dhaxeeyey maleeshiyaad ka tirsan isbahaysiga dooxada Jubba iyo ilaalada Sarkaalka lagu magacaabo Col.Cabdi Cigaal oo maalmahaanba ku kacsanaa siyaasada isbahaysiga dooxada Jubba,oo uu horey ugu tirsanaa,balse mudooyinkan dambe ay soo kala dhexgeleen madmadoow sababey in gacanta leysagu tago.

 

Col.Cabdi cigaal oo saaka u waramayey saxaafada magaalada muqdisho ayaa sheegay in waxii xaley dhacey ay ahaayeen weerar qorsheysan oo lala damacsanaa in lagu qaarijiyo,balse uu ka badbaadey oo labo ka mid ah ciidankiisa lagu dhaawacay,sidoo kale Sarkaal ka tirsan Isbahaysiga dooxada jubba ayaa isna saxaafada u sheegay in arintu ay ka duwan tahay sida uu cigaal hadalka u dhigay,waxuuna sheegay in ciidamo rondo ah oo marayey wadada hormarta gurigiisa ay si kedis ah isugu dhaceen ilaalada Cabdi cigaal israsaaseyn mudo daqiiqado ah socotey.

 

Wararkii ugu dambeeyey ee aan ka helno magaalada kismaayo ayaa sheegaya Col Cigaal uu ka baxay gurigii uu deganaa oo haatan magaalada uu ka degay xaafad kale ,lama oga waxa uu sameyn doono,iyadoo ay jiraan xubno doonaya in arinta wadahal lagu dhameeyo.

 

Iskahor imaadkan ayaa ku soo beegmay xilli seddex maalin ka hor uu Col cabdi cigaal uu wareysi siiyey mid ka mid ah Idaacadaha Muqdisho uu ku sheegay in shir lagu heshiisiinayo labada garab ee dawlada aan lagu qabin Karin gudaha Magaalada Kismaayo,taasi oo la rumeysan yahay inay salka ku hayso iska hor imadkan dhacay fiidnimadii xaley.

 

Allgedo@Allgedo.com

http://www.allgedo.com/wararka/kismaayo%20iska%20horimaad.htm

[Gabbal]

In this Forum, some nomads believe that Cabdullahi Yusuf is not a warlord. Conversely, others attest as factual that Max'd Qanyare and Muuse Suudi don't own roadblocks in Muqdisho.

Yet, another set of nomads will defend Barre Hiiraale at all costs, even argue that he's an honorable man.

Yeniceri, it is quite easy to lump people together whether it may serve our purpose or because of human weakness, i.e. the deadly laziness.

 

Let us go back to my quote to do justice to the context in which I used honoured with Barre Hiiraale:

 

Afterwards the man did not engage in the rampant warlordism that was taking ahold of every region in the former Somali Republic. He even sat down from the politics of Gedo and Cabudwaq, because he had no reason to engage in self glory and take advantage of the people.

As a very respected and honored man

, he could have risen to the top

of his particular sub-clan

's leadership chain, but he chose not to do so, because his conscious would not let him.

The man freed Gedo from the clutches of tyranny. As a result, he came to be respected and honoured by his particular social group. He was respected and honoured because of that. As you can read for yourself, the context in which I used the quote that has been misrepresented is that Barre was free to rise to the top of his particular social groups political echelon because of his early record in the civil war. He had the respect and honor of everyone who was indepted to him (read: the whole region of Gedo and where ever his particular social group resided), but he chose not to do so. It had nothing to do with how it was translated as. Hence the reason for my irritation when another nomad indiscriminately mis-used that quote.

 

To comment a tad bit about the related news you posted; this news isn't really shocking. This very Col Cabdi Cigaal is much more closer to me then I care to admit (much closer to me then Barre ever can you see) and was a former prisoner of war in the last Morgan-initiated attack on Kismaayo. However, his arrest is supported and approved by all. There is an administration in the city; to publicly stand in the way of the administration in a hostile way is to incite lawlessness and anarchy. That cannot be, and it is why Barre ordered his arrest, although they are (read; were) very close. An apology should suffice because Col Cabdi Cigaal is wrong, but, if not, then Barre needs to deal with the situation efficiently otherwise lawlessness will ensue and civil strife would be rekindled. That is a horror to imagine and should not be allowed to procede.

[Yeniceri]

Brother, I don't want to engage in a tit-for-tat debate about Md. Barre Hiiraale, because the argument here is above that of the character of a single individual. I believe this argument reflects on the larger Somali society and has tremendous implications for our core values. Allow me to demonstrate:

 

Originally posted by Kashanre:

The man

freed

Gedo from the clutches of tyranny. As a result, he came to be respected and honoured by his particular social group. He was respected and honoured

because

of that.

Since, as you say, Md. Barre Hiiraale is respected because he "freed Gedo from the clutches of tyranny," then I can safely make an appealing argument for most of Somalia's warlords, for they all profess to having "freed" their social group or traditional land, in one way or another, from illegal occupation or tyranny. That's how they're today's heroes, and are accordingly rewarded with honorable titles like president and minister.

 

I won't debate the fact that Md. Hiiraale is well-respected amongst certain sections of Somali people. So are Muuse Suudi and Ibrahim Xaabsade. But that's precisely the point: all these terrible men exist because some Somalis think they're heroes.

 

P.S. A curious question. When you say Hiiraale freed Gedo from tyranny, are you refering to the invasion of the Tigre army in 1996? I wasn't aware Md. Hiiraale played a key role in the defense against Abyssinian military aggression in those critical days.

[Yoonis_Cadue]

Kismayo supposed to be peace initiative

[Sky]

HornAfrique, ninyahow riwaayada naga daa. Barre Huuraale is one of the slimiest warlords out there and you refer to him as a God-like man. I can honestly say that I have never heard something this disgusting from a Somali before. You have brought clannism to another level.

[Gabbal]

^Possible more then you could have?

 

Yeniceri-

 

You brought a valid and legitimate point about a socio-politico problem that seems to hold us captive, but first I want to respond to your last question.

 

Barre Hiiraale literally sat out the SNF vs. Al Itihad war in 1996 that gripped Gedo in an unprecedented civil strife. In a personal testimony, he gave reason for his inaction because he had no wish to slay the blood of his people nor go against God and support Ethiopian incursions in Somalia. When I said "freed", I use it in context with early civil war history that put Gedo in the national scene for massacre of the population and desecration of the land. More then anyone else Col Barre Hiiraale is credited with turning the tides of war and repulsing the late Gen Caydiid (alaha yarxama) and his USC/allied groups' malicious intent on "wiping out" reer Gedo. After the brief occupation of Gedo by Gen Caydid and Col Shabelle (allaha ha u naxariisto labaduba), Barre Hiiraale literally stormed the region while SNF was getting ready for a major counter-attack. He used himself and his company as merceneries willing to sacrifice their lives in the intent of inflicting as much harm without a thought to their safety. He was facing overwhelming odds and knew he was facing a casualty rate that would be unimaginable, yet he was willing to sacrifice himself so the SNF would have an easier time in coming in and freeing his people. To give you an example of how much daring and courage this man had; it was his bullet that pierced Col Shabelle's body though his small company and his person were facing the collective forces of Gen Caydid, Col Shabelle, USC, RRA forces, etc.

 

Muuse Suudi and Xaabsade hardly compare to what this man has done for his people nor do they command as overwhelming respect and honor for a heroic endeavor.Muuse Suudi is holding his people hostage and profiting off of their misfortune and from Miskiin's reaction, one would gather so does Xaabsade. However, it would prepostrous to say the same of Barre Hiiraale. To go back to Kismaayo, like another nomad said, the man did not wake up one day and decide to invade the city. As soon as he heard the plight of a section of Kismaayo's inhabitants, the man was swifter then the wind in getting to action and righting a wrong.

 

Just look at what has been going on Kismaayo and is being concluded. The man is trying to right another wrong for goodnessake. Can you seriously compare him to Morgan, Muuse Suudi, and their ilk?

[Yoonis_Cadue]

Barre Hiiraale literally sat out the SNF vs. Al Itihad war in 1996 that gripped Gedo in an unprecedented civil strife. In a personal testimony, he gave reason for his inaction because he had no wish to slay the blood of his people nor go against God and support Ethiopian incursions in Somalia. When I said "freed", I use it in context with early civil war history that put Gedo in the national scene for massacre of the population and desecration of the land. More then anyone else Col Barre Hiiraale is credited with turning the tides of war and repulsing the late Gen Caydiid (alaha yarxama) and his USC/allied groups' malicious intent on "wiping out" reer Gedo. After the brief occupation of Gedo by Gen Caydid and Col Shabelle (allaha ha u naxariisto labaduba), Barre Hiiraale literally stormed the region while SNF was getting ready for a major counter-attack. He used himself and his company as merceneries willing to sacrifice their lives in the intent of inflicting as much harm without a thought to their safety. He was facing overwhelming odds and knew he was facing a casualty rate that would be unimaginable, yet he was willing to sacrifice himself so the SNF would have an easier time in coming in and freeing his people. To give you an example of how much daring and courage this man had; it was his bullet that pierced Col Shabelle's body though his small company and his person were facing the collective forces of Gen Caydid, Col Shabelle, USC, RRA forces, etc.

Really pathetic. Reminds me of the thickos called chrisitans when they talk about "Jesus". "He sucrified himself for his people, so that his people might be free.

 

The only thing he mentioned to forget that Barre was willing to sacrifice himself on the cross so that he might be crucified for the good of his people.

 

How hiliarious. Keep the blessings and attributions coming.