Knowledge is power - perception.

[Positive]

When everything that is tangible is my

how can I then understand or explain to another person that which is neither perceivable or conceivable?

 

It has to be vain to try to explain what the most transcendent is!

 

The Awakener2

[Raamsade]

The question is contradiction in terms. If something is imperceptible or inconceivable, how did you come to know of that imperceptibility or inconceivability in the first place?

[Positive]

Raamsade,

 

What is reality then? Is it only what the five sensory organs convey to the brain or is it more than that ?

 

The video I presented asserts that there exists something beyond matter that in its deepest layer is neither conceivable nor perceptible; in other words ineffable; besides most of the religions in the world postulate that there is power beyond matter Who creates the phenomenal world. Science theorizes that matter is energy even when it is in condensed form like you and me.

 

Briefly the conclusion is that our sensory organs are poor instruments to tell the true nature of creation or the Creator.

 

Would you offer another explanation to us!

 

The Awakener2

[Raamsade]

Reality is that which is ostensive or demonstrable. In other words, there must be tangible evidence for something to be real.

 

We humans get to experience reality through our senses (there are more than 5, btw). Without our senses, we can't perceive reality. This has already been demonstrated with the administration of psychoactive drugs to humans resulting in their inability to tell reality from mere hallucinations.

 

The state of our senses obviously determines how well we perceive reality. When our senses are inhibited, our perception of reality is poor. Corollary to this is our senses don't determine or create reality. Reality is separate and independent from us humans. A tree that falls in a forest doesn't require human attendance to see or hear or sense it in anyway for its fall to be a reality. It fell, making noise as it came down crashing, regardless of our ability to perceive reality. And how do we know the tree fell in the forest? Evidence.

 

That is the standard by which we normally judge reality. The video falls short of that standard by wide margins. It commits the classic fallacy of Arguing from Ignorance. This is the type of fallacious reasoning where someone claims something is unknown or unknowable and then immediately makes a bold claim to know the unknowable or unknown. If somethings are imperceptible, how did you come to know that in the first place? I asked you that question and have yet to receive an answer. It is like saying no one knows where Abigail Sunderland is but she is in Mexico. If I had uttered such thing, you'd dismiss it is empty talk devoid of any logic. I feel the same about the video you posted.

 

BTW, you said our sense are poor instruments to tell "true nature of creation or the Creator," ignoring for a moment the fact that you're committing another logical fallacy called Begging the Question, pray tell what are the good instruments then? Mysticism? Magical thinking? So-called "holy books" that reek of human artifice?

[Positive]

I need to make reality check first. Tell me if you wish where you stand with regard to the following propositions pertaining to the nature of reality.

 

1)The universe is a huge mechanical system of solid objects on fixed time and three dimensional space and there exists nothing else but this reality.

 

2)Everything in existence could be described objectively and as a matter of fact all phenomena is a result of physical interactions of all its physical parts.

 

3) There is no unity but rather everything is separate from everything else.

 

4)The human body is composed of solid mechanical parts and consciousness, mind and emotions are the direct result of chemical interactions and function of the brain.

 

5)What the sensory organs or their extensions like the scientific instruments can not perceive does not exist.

 

If you check my above list and tell me where you agree or disagree with me and why I would then go back to your last posting and try to answer you to the best of my ability.

 

 

The Awakener2

[Darwin]

Reality is not as subjective as you make it out to be. Raamsade gave you a very good description of an objective measure of reality. If there is something that is imperceptable and inconceivable it is ridiculous for anyone to claim that they know it or understand it or feel it etc.

 

Most of the experiences of the Divine are a result of normal brain function as are optical illusions, epiphanies, hallucinations etc.

[Positive]

Reality is that which is ostensive or demonstrable. In other words, there must be tangible evidence for something to be real.

 

This is a partial answer.

 

Reality has an inside and outside components which are complementary when they exist together. The inside is a state of being of the things and it is not accessible to our physical senses; consciousness which is neither tangible nor demonstrable is an example of the content of the inside. The outside is a state of becoming or creation from the inside and it can not exist independent of the other state; your definition cover the later state not the first causative one. For the answer to become complete we have to take into account the role of the consciousness which without it reality would not be self aware and hence its existence becomes meaningless.

 

We humans get to experience reality through our senses (there are more than 5, btw). Without our senses, we can't perceive reality. This has already been demonstrated with the administration of psychoactive drugs to humans resulting in their inability to tell reality from mere hallucinations. The state of our senses obviously determines how well we perceive reality. When our senses are inhibited, our perception of reality is poor.

 

Those who have experienced lucid dreaming know when their physical senses were closed in an sleep state in here they experienced With full sensory input another reality full of wonders. How can that happen if the physical senses are masters? Of course the senses are just instrument which relay sensory information to the brain and by themselves have no power to perceive reality

 

 

Reality is separate and independent from us humans. A tree that falls in a forest doesn't require human attendance to see or hear or sense it in anyway for its fall to be a reality. It fell, making noise as it came down crashing, regardless of our ability to perceive reality. And how do we know the tree fell in the forest? Evidence.

 

 

Nothing is separate from anything else. You have surely heard the butterfly effect; the amazing effect the flapping of butterfly wings can have on the environment at the other side of the world.

 

Wherever there is reality there is Life at least in essence. In your example there is life, the forest. Life in me, in you, in the birds and other animals and also in trees is integral whole. In that sense nothing is outside the pool of Life; space-time and beyond is filled by life-giving essence we call life when it dwells in form in our reality. Thus theoretically a human being who is in tune With the higher vibrations of Life could witness such an event from afar in the sense that the same life that has witnessed the event is present in the one who is remote viewing it.

 

If somethings are imperceptible, how did you come to know that in the first place? I asked you that question and have yet to receive an answer. It is like saying no one knows where Abigail Sunderland is but she is in Mexico. If I had uttered such thing, you'd dismiss it is empty talk devoid of any logic. I feel the same about the video you posted.

 

I belief in the power of Soul! Everyone of us has the potential to know where Abigali Sunderland is but we do not access such information because we are not responsible enough yet to access that information..

 

Had I access to information in that level I could be tempted to spy for example on my wife

 

 

The Awakener2

[Paragon]

Knowledge, I find, most disabling. I wish now that I didn't know all that I have known through knowing.

 

I feel fettered by its strictures and social structures to feel free - or even know the real. Knowledge is imprisonment within the contours of what is known.

 

Perception, then conception, and then integration seems the imprisoning routine of life.

 

All known things can be divided into (a) conditioned stimuli and (b) unconditioned stimuli, which underpin all else - whether sensed or imagined.

 

To be quite honest, I want out! To go beyond the tedious toil of reacting to the mind's dictatorial orders. Oh transcendence! Find me sooner and offer me the Supreme Reality!

 

Posting is labourous lately. Why

[Paragon]

Positive, I'd like to suggest a book called 'I Am That' to you. I have been reading it for the last 2 years now and though not Islamic, it has pretty good answers of realising the ' I Am-ness' of the Person or the Witness and away from the deceptions of our brain.

 

http://www.fixdisease.com/i_am_that.pdf

 

The seeker is he who is in search of himself.

 

Give up all questions except one: ‘Who am I?’ After all, the only fact you are sure of is that you are. The ‘I am’ is certain. The ‘I am this’ is not. Struggle to find out what you are in reality.

 

To know what you are, you must first investigate and know what you are not.

 

Discover all that you are not -- body, feelings thoughts, time, space, this or that -- nothing, concrete or abstract, which you perceive can be you. The very act of perceiving shows that you are not what you perceive.

 

The clearer you understand on the level of mind you can be described in negative terms only, the quicker will you come to the end of your search and realise that you are the limitless being.

 

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

[Positive]

Hi Paragon again,,

 

Surely the Supreme reality offers transcendence to every one who is ready to receive it. The way is in fact prepared for us but one has to walk the walk and talk the talk. Additionally it may be useful to seek the help of people who walked on the path before who know its turns and twists. We are never alone in our journey for the universe hearing our yearnings cares for everyone of us and provides to us what we need in Life.

 

If what one wants most in Life is to realize the Self they have a noble intention; they get all the help they need; if they want war they get all the help they need to experience it; if they want to amass wealth they get help to get it. It is natural that whatever one puts into his attention, good or bad, eventually comes to him.

 

Therefore anyone who is engaged to realize the Self and then God should not feel frantic but should rather smile because in a bright and sunny day, in the grace of God and through his personal effort, he might come to the destination he has set for himself.

 

The Awakener2

[Muriidi]

philosophy means you're not sure what you're talking about .. so let me start ..

 

reality means you don't have the control ..

 

you can have a differential of that reality .. call it yours ..cobtrol it, play with it even .. and if you liked it .. integrate it back into reality ..

 

while it's yours .. that "differential" .. what do we call it ..

 

i say for example "the definitive" ...

 

the rules of "the deffinitive" are well explained by kant ..

 

 

[Muriidi]

we're not old .. it's just an optical illusion ...

 

 

 

 

[Positive]

Mathnawi VI: 2955-2962

 

 

The spirit is like an ant, and the body like a grain of wheat which the ant carries to and fro continually.

 

The ant knows that the grains of which it has taken charge will change and become assimilated.

One ant picks up a grain of barley on the road;

another ant picks up a grain of wheat and runs away.

 

The barley doesn't hurry to the wheat,

but the ant comes to the ant, yes it does.

 

The going of the barley to the wheat is merely consequential: it's the ant that returns to its own kind.

 

Don't say, "Why did the wheat go to the barley?" Fix your eye on the holder, not on that which is held. As when a black ant moves along on a black felt cloth: the ant is hidden from view; only the grain is visible on its way.

 

But Reason says: "Look well to your eye:

when does a grain ever move along without a carrier?"

 

 

 

"Rumi: Jewels of Remembrance"

Camille and Kabir Helminski

Threshold Books, 1996

 

You can read more in:

 

http://www.khamush.com/masnawi.html

 

The Awakener2

[Positive]

TheParagon

 

You could have a look at this one. It is the writings of Rumi the great sufi poet.

 

 

There are

two kinds of intelligence

.

One is like that acquired by a child at school,

from books and teachers, new ideas and memorization.

Your intelligence may become superior to others,

but retaining all that knowledge is a heavy load.

You who are occupied in searching for knowledge

are a preserving tablet,

but the preserved tablet is the one who has gone beyond all this.

For the

other kind of intelligence is the gift of God:

its fountain is in the midst of the soul.

When the water of God-given knowledge gushes from the breast,

it doesn't become fetid or impure.

And if its way to the outside is blocked, what harm is there?

For it gushes continually from the house of the heart.

The acquired intelligence is like the conduits which run into the house from the streets:

If those pipes become blocked, the house is bereft of water.

Seek the fountain from within yourself.

I hope you would enjoy this.

 

The Awakener2

[Muriidi]

if space is real .. then Noah(pbuh) doesn't have control over it .. although he made it .. neither would Lot(pbuh) have control over time ,unless time was supposed to be unreal ..

 

And if its way to the outside is blocked, what harm is there?

For it gushes continually from the house of the heart.

..

 

it's in the air .. i know you can feel it .. but it's too early to talk .. here's something to help us keep it tight :

 

ganesh

 

 

 

or this by paragon :

 

Posting is labourous lately. Why

what cloth can you spin out of the term : percentage reciprocity ..

 

 

here's some help :