A Secular Somali State?

[Raamsade]

Don't mind genius pauper, he's just trolling.

[Marksman]

I don't think Somalia will become a secular state. The majority of Somalis within Somalia want Sharia Law implemented. I myself feel that when religion gets mixed with politics and power hungry people it will become distorted. Religion should reign free from politics.

 

I have not seen 1 country that has Sharia law fully implemented and can function as a state. Even though for instance Malaysia's constitution states that islam is the official religion, the country still limits religious influence. Malaysia is neither fully secular and neither fully an Islamic state.

 

If Somalis in Somalia can implement Sharia without violating basic human rights I'm all for it.

 

It just saddens me that a lot of Muslims lack self criticism and critics are called heretics or kufar too easily.

 

Overthinking laws such other countries have done before us such as forbidding women to drive or forcing women to wear hijaabs, jilbaabs or burqa's is crazy. Even though I know it's mostly cultural and not religious.

''Allah intends for you ease, and does not want to make things difficult for you" Quran 2:185

 

Watch this short video about a constitution survey in Somalia.

 

 

 

The current government appears to support the opinions expressed in this provision. Prime Minister Abdiweli Mohamed Ali told the VOA Somali Service that it is natural that people responded in this way saying, “We are 100 percent Muslims and we believe the new constitution should be Sharia compliant, not necessarily Sharia itself,” he said.

 

http://www.voanews.com/content/voa_survey_reveals_somali_thoughts_constitution/1216109.html

[faarah22]

wise post there marksman. unfortunately the truth is somalis are shackled to islam and will always be, at least the common majority. even after the calamity of al shabaab they are yearning for sharia, sad!. anyways somalia will always be backwater stone-age country in my view, not just because of religious backwardness but also because of racial reasons.

[Love Somalia]

A secular state is not necessarily anti-religion or God, that is so because of the Western approach. In Media, the Prophet himself operated a form of an a-religious state which governed the affairs of the Muslims, the Pagans and Jews, all equal under the law.

[MySideofTown]

Chocolate and Honey;405737 wrote:

It is interesting that you said "if that's what the society wants, so be it"! And then quickly added "I doubt," meaning you dont trust that they CAN make that choice under the assumption that they're oppressed?

Ehem... except the part where you stated that women are forced to satisfy their husband's sexual needs(which is an utter rubish because force is rape and Islam doesnt condone rape), most of what you consider ancient are effective laws(beats the hell out of sticking one in a hospital for sodomizing his son) passed to protect society's interests in here and the hereafter. See just like the Electric Chair and life without parole in four walls, stoning(while I dont defend it at the moment for the lack of an appointed Imamul Umma and unity)and rape witneses(which by the way can now easily be satisfied by producing DNA and other physical evidence

) are in place to protect people from predators and people with no regards to the rules. One could easily point out 1,000 things(hyperbole

) wrong with the current Justice System in place in many countries that are now the object of some people's envy.

 

No system is perfect and no system is flawless, but Sharia is truly inferior to any other system especially to Western liberal democracies which emphasize individual freedom and human rights. Sharia is, by and large, an extention of Arab tribal culture and if non arabs decide to adopt Sharia they have to become de facto Arabs.

Sharia is based on fear and obedience and it also serves to strenghten the prevailing power structures in the Muslim world i. e Arab superiority over non Arabs, Men´s superiority over Women and Children´s inferiority to their elders and etc.

Any country that has Sharia as system of governance is backwards, socially and poltically and deficit in human rights and basic decency are the common denominators for all Sharia countries. So I don´t see why Sharia is romanticized by Somalis, when we all know the extremely poor track record this system has :confused:

[guerilla]

Idealizing sharia law whilst living in a secular state is absurd, how many are willing to move to Saudi Arabia and enjoy the 'beauty' of the Islamic system of governance?

[Abu-wehliye]

I think Somalis need to learn what secular or Islamic sharia states mean?

What people see today is failed state that bunch of UN-educated gangs claim that they are implementing Sharia law….

[GaraadMon]

Abu-wehliye;865105 wrote:

I think Somalis need to learn what secular or Islamic sharia states mean?

What people see today is failed state that bunch of UN-educated gangs claim that they are implementing Sharia law….

What would this fabled Sharia state have to offer over secularism? I think we can all agree that it's relative hard to establish one (based on the fact that none have 'succeeded'), so what would the end result be to warrant this arduous task?

[ailamos]

Apophis;865213 wrote:

The odd thing is Secularism would actually work in favour of religion and religious plurality. It's thanks to secularism that Islam has penetrated Europe where the sword failed.

+1

[Haatu]

You're still alive?

[ailamos]

Haatu;927401 wrote:

You're still alive?

I've been busy. We got twins a few months ago, so our family doubled.. :-D

[DoctorKenney]

I don't like the belief which some people have, that Islam is "incompatible" with Western values, and should thus be "filtered out" and adjusted.

 

The question should be: Are Western liberal values compatible with Islam?

 

Not the other way around. Islam sets the standard for how a society should be run. Westerners should take a good long look at their laws and see where they are wrong.

 

I don't like this condescending attitude that some Westerners (and some sell-out Muslims) have towards the Shariah system.

 

We are the ones who set the standards, and anyone who does a deep research on Islamic law would conclude that it's the best system (if applied correctly)

[GaraadMon]

DoctorKenney;928639 wrote:

Islam sets the standard for how a society should be run.

Drivel. It's getting tiring having to read your backwards, circular logic. Islamic law is great in your eyes because Islamic texts say it is so. Whenever confronted with evidence, your ilk claims no one has correctly implemented Sharia.

 

There are plenty of other forms of governance which have yet to be fully realized (such as Marxism, Anarcho-Capitalism), don't the past failures of these ideologies being properly implemented provide an argument for reform? Capitalism has mutated and taken on different forms throughout history, and many would agree it was for the better. Could Islamic law ever improve? Given that it claims it is perfect, and its arguments were set in stone centuries ago.

[N.O.R.F]

This was a good thread that died at page 8. Welcome back ailamos!

[DoctorKenney]

Blackflash;928785 wrote:

Drivel. It's getting tiring having to read your backwards, circular logic. Islamic law is great in your eyes because Islamic texts say it is so. Whenever confronted with evidence, your ilk claims no one has correctly implemented Sharia.

 

There are plenty of other forms of governance which have yet to be fully realized (such as Marxism, Anarcho-Capitalism), don't the past failures of these ideologies being properly implemented provide an argument for reform? Capitalism has mutated and taken on different forms throughout history, and many would agree it was for the better. Could Islamic law ever improve? Given that it claims it is perfect, and its arguments were set in stone centuries ago.

Obviously you think it's circular logic, because it was a short paragraph and I never took the time to elaborate why the Islamic system is great. You seem to think that complex systems can be explained in 1 paragraph.

 

You really do have a simplistic view of the world my friend.

 

The thing is, secularism was originally created as a sort of compromise between various Christian sects after they couldn't overcome one another in their various "heretical" battles. Secularism itself is a hollow ideology, but again; This is a long discussion and takes time to elaborate on.

 

Most Westerners believe that societies should be judged by a certain standard (ie. their standard of secularism, freedom of speech, liberal values, etc.) and they view this standard as universal and just. I view the Islamic system the same way. I believe Islam is the standard of justice and is universal. How that is "backward" makes no sense to me.

 

But I shouldn't be surprised; People like you tend to have a condescending, smug tone. Grow up