Atheism/Lets talk about GOD!

[Johnny B]

Now that the sons of Adam have debunked the evolutionary myth with the scientific work of Harun Yahya ( Adnan Oktar), and subconsciously taken the famous detour of Pascals wager.

 

Anybody kind enough to cogently present the god s/he worships?

[Qandalawi]

Waryaadahee oo Gaaladaan Ilaahay maxay uga baqi waayeen...

 

WAR ILAAHAY KACABSADA OO ALLIHI IDIN ABUURTAY KABAQA, WAA IGA TALO

 

Uduceeqa walaalayaal waa Somaliyee, iskaga duceeya ilaahay hasoo hanuuniyee

 

Abtigiis, thanks

[5]

Originally posted by Somali09:

Let me ask you hypothetically:

If somehow we are able to produce irrefutable concrete evidence that there is NO god, would you go out and start committing robbery, murder and rape???

Can we live without air? What if we absolutely imagine there is no oxygen, what would happen?

 

More appropriate hypothetical question would be: what if you lost your faith?

 

I did question the existence of God at some point a couple of years ago but I think it just lasted a few days. It's part of growing up, you make your own decisions and choices and follow a certain path. Alhamdulillaah Allah (swt) was kind enough to let me continue believing in Him. I didn't go on a killing spree during those couple of days of confusion, but I do remember feeling very anxious, arrogant and suffering a few panic attacks as well. Served me right!

Waan tooba keenay my brief doubts and I am grateful for each day that I live as a believer, and inshaAllah with His mercy I hope to die as a believer.

 

The reason I believe is that when I thought of it logically I came to the conclusion that in order for existence to be possible there must be an infinite entity. I also started studying Islam on my own and realized how truly beautiful it is and how much sense it made.

 

Now Mr. Jørgensen, I hope that you will stop getting your information from anti-islamic propaganda sites and start reading Muslim authors like Charles Le Gai Eton, Seyyed Hossen Nasr, Al Ghazali, Ibn Arabi and the like. Although I very strongly suggest you start with 'Islam for Dummies' (no kidding, it's very comprehensive).

[5]

Originally posted by Johnny B:

the evolutionary myth

Actually it is a myth. It's a gnostic myth. Darwinism declares that living beings created themselves which is in essence a metaphysical claim. The theory didn't sweep the world on the strengths of its scientific merits, but because of its appeal as a gnostic myth. It's just nothing more than a metaphysical doctrine wrapped up in scientific garb.

[Zinki]

What a load of loathsome rubbish! Bacon's ''A little philosophy inclines man's mind to atheism; but depth in philosophy brings men's minds about to religion'',comes to mind. Perhaps its about time most of you sought another alternative for this is way too grand for your feeble minds. An advice!

[BiLaaL]

This guy does not have the intellectual fortitude to appreciate the excellent points many of you have advanced in this thread.

 

Sadly, some of you have recklessly indulged into and strayed (perhaps unknowingly) dangerously close to disbelief with your replies.

 

This topic has broken countless rules of debate. No one can possibly argue that any value can come out of its continuation. The time has come to give this topic a rest.

 

There is certain wisdom inherent in respecting matters beyond your reach.

[Zinki]

^What a gibberish nonsensical rant! Do you understand what you are saying or rather,do you apprehend the concept ,no,the meaning of intellectual fortitude?

 

The only thing i can compare to this thread is rubbish for neither the 'evolutionists' nor the 'creationists' of this thread have an idea regarding what is in hand here. Instead,its just all about out foxing this individual's post or that one's. That my friend is what many would refer to as ''loathsome rubbish''.

 

Alas,why seek the termination of the thread since your *intellect* appreciates the rubbish that it is? Sort of makes you fall in love with human nature,don't you think?

[BiLaaL]

^ You've misunderstood. My comments above aren't referring to you. You clearly haven't been following this thread closely enough to have realized.

[Somali09]

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence"

 

That is GOD. How do you disapprove something that does not exist?

[genius pauper.]

^^^^^doubt cultivated in a barren mind of an atheist will only bear denial based on limited acumen.^^^^^^

 

somalia09......waad fashilantahay.

how do you ascertain at first something which doesnt exist?..dont contradict your self.

 

by saying so, u mean, u believe that, someone can ascertain the existance of something which doesnt exist?..hhhmm. ur really lost.

 

 

may ALLAH GUIDE YOU AND THE REST,,,,,,,,,,,,AMII N.

[Raamsade]

Originally posted by Norfsky:

Is that what you call 'evidence'?

Yes. That is what I call evidence. That's what scientists specializing in evolution theory call evidence validating the theory. And more importantly, that is what is predicted as evidence by evolution theory.

 

The theory of Evolution predicts intermediate fossils with the older ones resembling parent species while the younger resembling modern species (displaying modern anatomical features) as per Descent with Modification. Each species that descends from another is slightly different. At the beginning (before the process speciation concludes) these differences are minor and hardly noticeable but overtime they accumulate to something significant. The new species reaches a point where it can no longer interbreed (and produce fertile offspring) with its parent species.

 

These fossils fit the human evolution model perfectly. The older the hominid fossils are, the more ape-like they appear. The younger they are, the more human they appear.

 

My question to you is: why are you skeptical?

 

BTW, I was just reading today the latest twist to the storied journey of humans. According to a recent paper in the journal Science, scientists have found the oldest possible human ancestor -- much older than Australopithecus Aferensis or popularly known as Lucy.

 

Read it here: Oldest "human skeleton" found -- disproves missing link

 

 

Originally posted by Norfsky:

Have you ever critically evaluated this 'evidence'?

I sure have; more than you critically evaluated your own religious believes which you accept wholly without any reservations.

 

Have you critically evaluated (human ancestor fossils) them?

 

 

Originally posted by Norfsky:

I for one would be very interested on how you would refute the following assessment by

Harun Yahya

in his book

Evolution Deceit

.

I can refute (have done so in the past numerous times) everything the crackpot Adnan Otkar (his real name) writes. He is a charlatan who profits (he is a wealthy man) from the religiously-induced ignorance of Muslim masses. I don't blame him for exploiting this profitable opportunity. He is the consummate entrepreneur. And I don't blame the benighted, unwashed Muslim masses living in poor, impoverished countries and who don't know any better falling for his lies.

 

But what I can't fathom is the level of self-deception that compels Muslims who should and do know better to lend an ear to Adnan Otkar's polemics against science.

 

The man is self-styled polemicist who knows zilch about science (he isn't even a Uni graduate) and isn't interested in having an honest debate based on facts regarding the evolution theory (or anything else as he was once a Holocaust denier). His entire case against evolution is based on out and out lies, half-truths, misrepresentation of real scientific concepts and the words of scientists and plain old ignorance. Believe you me, it is easy to refute what he says but why should any self-respecting scientists or private citizen debunk him? Why should I deign to refute his mad ravings against science?

 

No, you deal with the evidence for human evolution that I presented first. You asked for it and I provided it. Be a man and either refute the evidence you specifically asked for or gracefully bow out of this debate.

[Raamsade]

Originally posted by genius pauper.:

if we, humans of today evolved from ape, where did that ape came from?

We didn't come from apes. Us and apes came from a common ancestor.

 

 

Originally posted by genius pauper.:

is it a continuous process which still is unfolding??

[/qb]

Yes; it's unfolding as I type this reply.

 

 

Originally posted by genius pauper.:

and if it is continuing who is co-ordinating its operation?

No body that's why it's called Natural Selection.

 

 

Originally posted by genius pauper.:

what really necessitated the process to occur?

You're begging the question (i.e. committing a logical fallacy). Before you ask the question "what necessitated the process" you must first show the process needs "someone" to necessitate it. Then and only then is your question legitimate one.

 

 

Originally posted by genius pauper.:

wont anyone not think that it is an injust process by the fact that only the fittest survive and those unable to adapt to the prevailing conditions perish?

The survival of the fittest doesn't mean the strongest and most physically fit survive. Instead, it means those with better reproductive success leave more of their offspring behind (and hence, their genes survive into future generations).

 

 

Originally posted by genius pauper.:

a principle of the sciences of theology and jurisprudence is this: that a probability not originating from any indication or sign has no importance;it cannot induce doubt in a matter that is definite. it cannot shake the certainty that is based on sound judgement^^^^^^^^

Nonsense. Nothing in faith is based on sound judgment. You're only a muslim because of where you were born. Had you been born in Haiti you would believe in Voodooism.

 

Besides absolute certainty in anything is never good. You should always have doubts and ask question. It's people full of certainty that are often responsible for the most horrendous crimes in human history.

[Somali09]

Originally posted by genius pauper.:

 

how do you ascertain at first something which doesnt exist?..dont contradict your self.

Tell you what, for once on this thread, why dont you and others provide the evidence to prove God's existance?

 

I cant wait for it.

[Somali09]

Originally posted by Raamsade:

 

No, you deal with the evidence for human evolution that I presented first. You asked for it and I provided it. Be a man and either refute the evidence you specifically asked for or gracefully bow out of this debate.

Sadly, he wont.

Its a theme here, quick to ask for evidence but nver willing to provide any.

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

just come across this interesting argument called "the kalaam" arguement by Ibn Arabi, a sufi filasuuf

 

Premise 1: Everything that begins to exist has a cause.

Premise 2: The universe began to exist.

Conclusion 1: Therefore, the universe must have a cause.

 

and that cause is God?

 

johnny , whats your take on this?