Atheism/Lets talk about GOD!

[Johnny B]

^ political theism again?!

 

What is the point in asking for 'the money' if all you're interested in is it's color and not in it's value?

 

Dare we be over-enthusiastic this time and hope that you'll stay on a straight line ?

 

It's not intellectually so giving , engaging in a scientific debate for the sole reason of strengthing a pre-backed result.

[N.O.R.F]

^ah. Welcome Johnny. I knew the repeated requests for proof would bring you out sometime.

 

Are you saying your money is counterfeit?

 

Are you saying you can't prove anything to me?????

 

Are you up to it this time around or should we expect more theory dolled up as fact?

 

The floor is yours gents.

[Johnny B]

To be perfectly honest with my 'Mutawa', i happen to find it strange, that a person who lives in a superstitious garden and believes

imaginary beings by the name Angels, who're on a watch-mission on behalf of an omniscient/ omnipotent Deity,are placed on his / her shoulders, would adopt such a position of superiority towards a person who lacks superstitious beliefs, in a contest of provability.

 

It's sad that you're more than willing to go another round of quoting and pasting from ID arguments whose scientific value you don't understand.

 

I've no problem accepting the fact that you've yet to read the scientifc theory of evolution,but contently accept the 'poof' creation theory.

 

This thread is about god ?

[me]

Originally posted by Johnny B:

^ political theism again?!

 

What is the point in asking for 'the money' if all you're interested in is it's color and not in it's value?

 

Dare we be over-enthusiastic this time and hope that you'll stay on a straight line ?

 

It's not intellectually so giving , engaging in a scientific debate for the sole reason of strengthing a pre-backed result.

Johnny B, there is no scientific debate here only a philosophical debate.

 

Those that believe in God do not have to prove to you that god exists, because by attempting to prove that god exists they will accept doubt and the possibility that god does not exist and thereby undermine their believe in god.

 

So you should prove why you believe that god does not exist.

 

The believers, do not have to prove anything, they believe.

[SayidSomal]

-What is provable evidence?

-where do consciousness comes from?

-Do you use reason and logic? Are these faculties limited?

 

 

sometimes we have more questions than answers?

 

I Firmly Belief in Allah (SWT) and His

-Angels

-Prophets

-Scriptures

-Al-qada wa Al-qadar = the divine decree and the predestination

-The Last Day

 

I don't have the need nor the want to proof any of these beliefs to anyone nor can i even if i tried. What matters to me is my belief makes sense to me more than anything else. i am at peace with myself and my beliefs and i am quite content with them.

[Johnny B]

^I had higher hopes in my freind ME regarding where the proof is demandable, nevertheless, i'll have to accept Ramadan and sprituality is having it's toll.

 

Brother Me, It's our 'Mutawa' Norf who is demanding a scientific proof of the evolutionary theory , which is per se normal, given that superstition is not an acceptable alternative.

 

If those who believe in God don't have to prove or account for the base of their Belief because they will in their attempt to prove accept the possibility that that particular god may not in fact exist, then woulden't the contrary be valid?

, namley, those who don't believe in the non-existence of that particulat god don't need to prove it's non-existense because in their attempt of proving the non-existense of that particular god, thay'll have to accept the possibility that,that particular god may really exist.

 

An even better example to illustrate your fallacy would be , Nobody needs to prove anything they happen to believe in, because by attempting to prove they'll have to accept the possibility of the contrary of their Belief.

 

Such reasoning gives believing in whims a roubust credit, and is a futile attempt of hiding the weakness in one's belief at best.

[SayidSomal]

^why don't you answer these questions below as honestly as you can?

 

-What is provable evidence?

-where do consciousness comes from?

-Do you use reason and logic? Are these faculties limited?

[me]

Originally posted by Johnny B:

Such reasoning gives believing in whims a roubust credit, and is a futile attempt of hiding the weakness in one's belief at best.

If you say that it's a futile attempt of hiding the weakness of ones belief, why are you hiding under it at this moment then?

 

Don't mind the opening punches, we will take this thing anywhere it goes.

[N.O.R.F]

Johnny, all I want is for you to prove to me human evolution led to your existance. Leave out the usual exess baggage (irrelevance)you are only too willing to throw into your debates. If you can't prove anything then Raamsade try. I'm confident he can at least give us more to chew on.

[Johnny B]

^Me,

I'm not hiding behind it, i'm just calling you on your reasoning as to why those who believe in Gods, Angels, Ghosts, etc etc.. don't need to reasonably account for the basis of their Beliefs.

I've to be able to point at it without being accused of using it, no?!

 

Norf,

Which scientific theory says human evolution led TO Johnny's existence?

 

There is no Scientific theory that i know of that claims Human evolution leads to Johnny's existence, This tired and evolving question of yours displays only your happy unacquaintance of what the evolutionary theory affirms.

 

That you demand proofs regarding scientific theories is a good sign of rationality, one can only hope that level of rationality is maintained and exercised regarding other theories.

 

And to get going i suggest we define:

 

1: what is a scientific theory?

2: What is a scientific fact ?

 

This thread is about god?

[N.O.R.F]

Norf,

Which scientific theory says human evolution led TO Johnny's existence?

 

There is no Scientific theory that i know of that claims Human evolution leads to Johnny's existence, This tired and evolving question of yours displays only your happy unacquaintance of what the evolutionary theory affirms.

You said it yourself here.

 

That you demand proofs regarding scientific theories is a good sign of rationality, one can only hope that level of rationality is maintained and exercised regarding other theories. And to get going i suggest we define:

 

1: what is a scientific theory?

2: What is a scientific fact ?

*yawns*

 

Just get on with it. I would really like to debate with you without repeating myself a hundred times in the process.

 

As I said, the floor is yours gents. Present what you will however you wish to present it with as many caveats as you please.

[jamalo]

Its just a Theory of Evolution. Nothing has been proved for real.

[Sherban Shabeel]

^Yes it has. Didn't you study biology and genetics?

 

The mechanisms of evolution and mutation are provable and have been proven in labs millions of times.

[Paragon]

Shabeel and JB, first I am not really too bothered about proofs or non-proofs or existence or non-existence or some such thing that might throw us into the whirl wind of claims and counter-claims, but let me, for the benefit of discussion, be more of a complete nutter and reduce the whole argument of this thread as being simply 2of many other human or imaginative explanation of what exists or doesn't exist. What if there could be more arguments than just these two? What if there are other explanations more inclusive than Darwinism? Or that of religion?

 

What I find very amusing in all human arguments is that its not merely the truth that humans are after, but somehow the 'missing link or truth' becomes the very exercise of 'countering the other'. And slowly by slowly, the need for truth itself becomes redundant since it doesn't either support one or another side of the argument.

 

Perhaps we should find the hidding place of the truth?

 

BTW, I don't think this forum exists, it is the constract of my imagination. I somehow created it. Now counter that.

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

ladies and gents, before go back to the medieval ages with this nonsensical attack and defense of basic scientific facts known to little school children all over the world, leave evolution alone and go back ascertain the existence or non existence of God.

 

How does one know of his existence or nonexistence?

Are we programmed to posses such knowledge?

 

Are believers privy to a certain knowledge that none believers do not have access to?

 

And am gonna go on a limb here as say that Atheism (The he does not exist camp)is just as bold a claim as theism (The he does exist camp)and that where to go by logic only, one would arrive at agnosticism (the I don't camp).

 

rudy, religion is not a heritage, you make sound like its a light switch that one chooses to turn on or of but they do say, ignorance is a bliss...